2016 Team Challenge Cup - Gen Info/Pre-chat

[Sam-Skwantch]

It would be easy enough to throw Australia in with Asia, South America in with North America, and Africa in with Europe, as skaters from those regions become eligible based on world rankings, etc.

But I think we are taking this all too seriously. I am pretty sure that the USFSA got their heads together and tried to think of some kind of show that someone might be interested in seeing. Then they said, hey, why not try to drum up some publicity by having a hokey fan voting thing. Let's have "team captains" -- blasts from the past -- to hype it. Lets' put up some big pictures of gracie Gold. They beat the bushes for corporate sponsers and found one in Japan. Somewhere along the way they ran the idea past the ISU, which said OK but you have to follow ISU guidelines. And here we are.

Will there be another? Lets' see whether this one is a success or not and go from there.

Makes me think of the Latvian take over of the NHL All Star game two years ago.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/2...-star-game-by-latvian-fans.html?referer=&_r=0

 

[NaVi]

It's based on the IP address.
It's something you can manually change if you know how. (To avoid Geo-block)

Might as well mention it openly, Hola and Tor could easily be used to get as many votes as you'd like. It may be possible to automate the whole process with some javascript(either grease monkey or browser extension).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Oh the onion router and the once secretive "dark web"

 

[moriel]

It's based on the IP address.
It's something you can manually change if you know how. (To avoid Geo-block)

I kinda know how, and I know how my IP should be displayed.
I also highly doubt it is geoblocked, as there are more voters from my state.

 

[ice coverage]

The rules say that they will throw out automated votes if they are detected. ...

I am curious how easy (or not) it is for the Pollcaster software (or something working with it) to detect and eliminate votes generated by electronic bots.

Wonder also whether whatever attempted enforcement against bots takes place in real time -- resulting in immediate rejection of votes -- or whether it is more of a retroactive process.

... God forbid some people try to pay attention to the rules. ...

:agree:

Huh? We have no idea whether this even will be inflated or not and the voting gives a chance to participate to skaters such as Kuchvalska or Bychenko or Liam Firus who would never make it otherwise. It's different, not less fair. I see the voting as a nice touch in a low-pressure post-Worlds event.

Though I admit that a system "all skaters must be from different countries" would be even better, although Team America would have to dig out some skaters from Southern America or join forces with Australia ir something. ...

:agree:

.... For something that has "World"in its name it's not represented enogh. ...

At the risk of stating the obvious, "World" is not even in the name of Team Challenge Cup. Team Challenge Cup and WTT are two different comps with different formats and rules.

It would be easy enough to throw Australia in with Asia, South America in with North America, and Africa in with Europe, as skaters from those regions become eligible based on world rankings, etc.

But I think we are taking this all too seriously. I am pretty sure that the USFSA got their heads together and tried to think of some kind of show that someone might be interested in seeing. Then they said, hey, why not try to drum up some publicity by having a hokey fan voting thing. Let's have "team captains" -- blasts from the past -- to hype it. Lets' put up some big pictures of gracie Gold. They beat the bushes for corporate sponsers and found one in Japan. Somewhere along the way they ran the idea past the ISU, which said OK but you have to follow ISU guidelines. And here we are.

Will there be another? Lets' see whether this one is a success or not and go from there.

Whether fan voting is "hokey" or not, the producers of the equally "hokey" DWTS, American Idol, etc., are laughing all the way to the bank.
(Hat tip to Stitch for making much the same point above.)

Otherwise, I agree with almost everything you say, MM -- except for characterizing TCC as a "show," as opposed to a competition.

I have said previously that TCC obviously does not have the stature of Worlds.
But it is going overboard, IMO, to consider TCC as only a "show."
It is within the realm of possibility that all the 2016 Worlds medalists in Ice Dance will be competing at TCC, for example.
And I bet the bronze and silver medalists from Worlds will make a big push to end their season by scoring better in the TCC FD than the winners of Worlds.

(Off-topic digression: I regret that the Shibs will not be at TCC, and I do hope that they medal at Worlds.)

 

[Mathman]

Whether fan voting is "hokey" or not, the producers of the equally "hokey" DWTS, American Idol, etc., are laughing all the way to the bank.

I kind of agree on the "equally hokey" part. I hope the TCC makes money for the organizers. Hoke = $. :yes:

 

[StitchMonkey]

So i was thinking about the fan vote.

What if it was tied to tickets? I.e. each ticket holder gets one vote, and it is tied to the ticket. That way there is a limit to the total votes, you can't have bots, you can't vote many times, and the people voting are the ones who are going to see the skaters and in theory might be voting more fairly - because they are at least voting on who they will be seeing.

I fear that the fan vote is a fun idea that is poor in implementation just due to reality. Maybe they should have people vote for skaters to invite to the exhibition instead. Then so what if it is a straight up popularity contest.

 

[begin]

So i was thinking about the fan vote.

What if it was tied to tickets? I.e. each ticket holder gets one vote, and it is tied to the ticket. That way there is a limit to the total votes, you can't have bots, you can't vote many times, and the people voting are the ones who are going to see the skaters and in theory might be voting more fairly - because they are at least voting on who they will be seeing.

I fear that the fan vote is a fun idea that is poor in implementation just due to reality. Maybe they should have people vote for skaters to invite to the exhibition instead. Then so what if it is a straight up popularity contest.

Then it would be biased in favor of the hosting nation's fans, as a 'neutral' country probably won't have enough interest.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Then it would be biased in favor of the hosting nation's fans, as a 'neutral' country probably won't have enough interest.

Good point... unless we move it to Hawaii, I think that would wind up with with a mix of attendees... Not sure USA would even have 50% of tickets.

maybe exhibition is the way to go.

 

[begin]

Good point... unless we move it to Hawaii, I think that would wind up with with a mix of attendees... Not sure USA would even have 50% of tickets.

maybe exhibition is the way to go.

I don't think skaters would go through all the trouble for a single exhibition performance.

Bottom-line is the voting system is poorly executed. Even with a more sophisticated system to validate votes, people would still question the results and things can get contentious. I know they want to engage people but controversy is not the way to do it.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Also those statistics are not correct. At all.

Basically, I´m from Brazil, and as it has a very low number of people voting, I can pretty much track my own vote. In theory.
In practice, i´m certain my vote is not showing up =D

Maybe it will take another day to compute, who knows?

I'm in the same boat. Because there are so few people voting in Northern Ireland, I can keep track of my votes. And they put me in a district on the other side of the province to where I actually am!

Out of curiosity, I had a look at how the voting was going Down South, and I noticed something interesting.

When you look at the World Map for each category, it says there have been something like 10 votes cast in Ireland. Yet when you go into the regional maps, there are only details for 3 voters in Dublin (well, only 1 voter for European Men).

American Ladies (10 votes): 10% Polina; 80% Ashley (3 Dublin); 10% Alaine
American Men (9 votes): 89% Adam (3 Dublin); 11% Liam
Asian Ladies (20 votes): 30% Zijun (1 Dublin); 60% Rika (1 Dublin); 10% So Youn (1 Dublin)
Asian Men (12 votes): 8% Misha; 58% Han (3 Dublin); 33% Boyang
European Ladies (13 votes): 46% Elena (1 Dublin); 31% Angelina (1 Dublin); 23% Zhenya (1 Dublin)
European Men (10 votes): 30% Maxim; 40% Mikhail; 30% Alexei (1 Dublin)

So, basically, what I am trying to say is - don't trust the maps completely because they are not accurate!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

It would be easy enough to throw Australia in with Asia, South America in with North America, and Africa in with Europe, as skaters from those regions become eligible based on world rankings, etc.

Exactly! It wouldn't be too difficult to adjust the Team names to let skaters from these "smaller" continents (in terms of figure skating) get a chance.

Africa thrown in with Europe. Mmmm. I'm sure Sonia Lafuente would like that, since she is (strictly speaking) from Africa.

Speaking of Africa, we have had voters from Africa!!! Here is how they voted:-

American Ladies (1 vote): Ashley (Western Cape, ZAF)
American Men (1 vote): Max (Western Cape, ZAF)
Asian Ladies (4 votes): So Youn (Northern Cape, ZAF; not on regional map, TUN); Rika (Western Cape, ZAF; Lusaka, ZMB)
Asian Men (1 vote): Han (Western Cape, ZAF)
European Ladies (1 vote): Zhenya (Western Cape, ZAF)
European Men (1 vote): Alexei (Western Cape, ZAF)

Well done to the voter in the Western Cape for being dedicated enough to vote in ALL the categories!!!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Mrs. P]

Guys, please stay on topic. Please do not insult an entire country's fans or residents or bicker over the motives of people voting.

 

[Layback11]

Exactly! It wouldn't be too difficult to adjust the Team names to let skaters from these "smaller" continents (in terms of figure skating) get a chance.

Africa thrown in with Europe. Mmmm. I'm sure Sonia Lafuente would like that, since she is (strictly speaking) from Africa.

Speaking of Africa, we have had voters from Africa!!! Here is how they voted:-

American Ladies (1 vote): Ashley (Western Cape, ZAF)
American Men (1 vote): Max (Western Cape, ZAF)
Asian Ladies (4 votes): So Youn (Northern Cape, ZAF; not on regional map, TUN); Rika (Western Cape, ZAF; Lusaka, ZMB)
Asian Men (1 vote): Han (Western Cape, ZAF)
European Ladies (1 vote): Zhenya (Western Cape, ZAF)
European Men (1 vote): Alexei (Western Cape, ZAF)

Well done to the voter in the Western Cape for being dedicated enough to vote in ALL the categories!!!

CaroLiza_fan

Very cool! I wouldn't expect there would be any voters in Africa, so it's encouraging to see that we, the skating fans, are slowly advancing in our quest of world domination.

Are there any skaters who compete African countries? (Besides the Moroccan girl on the JGP.)

 

[Mathman]

Are there any skaters who compete African countries? (Besides the Moroccan girl on the JGP.)

The Republic of South Africa has several clubs and quite a few skaters who compete locally. I don't think they have anyone at the moment who has a world ranking or anything like that, but you never know what the future will bring. Here is the RSA skating association website.(You can click on the first link to find out the winners of the Kwa-Zulu Natal championships.)

http://www.safsa.org.za/index.html

The majority of young people involved in skating are AfriKaans or English.

 

[StitchMonkey]

So it seems that Liam Firus has withdrawn from World's and Nam is now going.... does Liam now get taken off of the voting here? Can we start a campaign to get him to win just to... well have some fun.

Nam is his replacements. So either Grant gets added or it is a Max vs Adam face off.

 

[StitchMonkey]

The Republic of South Africa has several clubs and quite a few skaters who compete locally. I don't think they have anyone at the moment who has a world ranking or anything like that, but you never know what the future will bring. Here is the RSA skating association website.(You can click on the first link to find out the winners of the Kwa-Zulu Natal championships.)

http://www.safsa.org.za/index.html

The majority of young people involved in skating are AfriKaans or English.

Michaela Du Toit of South Africa was at 4CC this year.

 

[ice coverage]

So it seems that Liam Firus has withdrawn from World's and Nam is now going.... does Liam now get taken off of the voting here? Can we start a campaign to get him to win just to... well have some fun.

Nam is his replacements. So either Grant gets added or it is a Max vs Adam face off.

I hope that Liam stays on the TCC ballot.

IIRC, the TCC official requirement for nominees for fan voting is something like "those who qualified for Worlds" -- so I hope that means Liam still meets the requirement.
(I am too sad :sad4: about Liam and Worlds to look up the exact language.)

ETA:

I have dried my tears for Liam long enough to look at the TCC Announcement. The wording of the requirement is "Skaters who are entered in the 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships." Sigh. Still hope that Liam will remain on the TCC ballot.
http://www.isu.org/media/268627/2016-team-challenge-cup-announcement-final.pdf​

I was supporting Max for Team North America, although I love Liam and I like Adam.

And now I am torn more than ever over whom I want to win the TCC vote. It would be great for everyone to rally around Liam.

Liam and Max are friends, so I imagine that Max is sad about Liam's withdrawal from Worlds.
When 2014 US Nats and 2014 Canadian Nats were taking place at the same time, Max and Liam were keeping in touch to give each other long-distance moral support for Sochi slots.
I am verklempt :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4: :sad4:.

 

[andyjo24]

Holy! Misha is catching up to Boyang slowly but surely! :shocked:

 

[yuzushenko]

almost 1000 votes from california. i hope ISU/USFS sees this and realizes that it'd be smart to finally have an event on the west coast/california! (yes i know spokane is in washington, but look at how many votes they have. are there even any training centers up there? i don't know why the USFS seems to hate california, our top ladies all train here, yet all the events are in the middle of nowhere cornfields.)

only new york bested california in votes (1000 something). that area is already getting boston worlds. hopefully california gets some love. we obviously have plenty of fans.

kansas has 8 votes, wisonsin 79, north carolina 73. don't know why USFS keeps putting events in these places, and then they're surprised at the empty bleachers. do they live there and find it easier for themselves to travel there? think of the fans, the athletes.