Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners

erm... most pair skaters are injured right now... all of them.... V/T K/S, S/K, S/B, MTM2, Y/J, S/H like who else??? i was using this expression figuratively not literally.... zhang has back issues as well.
Are you kidding me? That's the litmus test for you, and it's all black and white..."careless" means the girl is permanently injured, and if she's not, then he's a good partner? Going back to the stories about the Soviet training system, I'm not aware of any pair girls who ended up in wheelchairs, but that doesn't mean they weren't treated badly and that they didn't suffer. :rolleye:

And Peng, or his next partner, may end up permanently damaged yet...could just be a matter of time. (Or maybe he will treat the next one better because Peng was at fault all along...right?)
 
but how do you know if he is concerned or not? you can't know how he is feeling inside or what he is thinking.... I could totally argue that he looked concerned when he looked behind his shoulder at WC (but then he saw her jumping back up to join him).... and at the TEB training session, he doesn't look unconcerned... his look his blank... which in many similar cases could imply that he is burried in his own thoughts and concerns.... that's often a sign of a blank look.

THE REAL concern in this thread should be about ZHANG but about the fact that YU seems FORCED to switch... (but we don't know for sure).

honestly, if i were Zhang, I wouldn't be happy to have a partner who is not willing to work with me.
Look concerned? :confused2:



Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I try to post about the skaters I enjoy and avoid negative posts about the ones I don't. I can understand that others don't see the same things in his behavior that I do - we're all coming from different perspectives - but his behavior towards Peng has seemed off to me this season and it's much harder for me to like him as a skater as a result. I don't think it's a "hate message" to say that.
 
Can someone tell me are Peng and Zhang splitting? Have they split? Does Zhang have a new partner? I thought we couldn't speculate or do rumours on this board so does this mean I missed something that confirmed the split was, has or is happening? I just hope if there is split it isn't like I and K's mess. The carnage still continues.

Known facts:

1. There has been a rumour among Chinese skating fans for weeks now about partner switching between the Pairs of Y/J and P/Z.

2. Y/J fans have started a campaign to keep them together.

3. None of the parties involved has said anything about the rumour - the Chinese fed, David Wilson, and the skaters themselves, except

4. Yu has "liked" some of the Weibo messages and the campaign supporting the Y/J Pair, and

5. The IFS magazine confirms the split 'n switch on their Facebook site. 3 hours ago:

The Chinese fans are very unhappy...they took to Weibo in droves today to protest two of China's pairs teams being split and paired with different partners.

The Federation has split Xiaoyu Yu and Jin Yang, the two-time World Junior champions, and Peng Cheng and Hao Zhang. Yu is now partnered with Zhang and Cheng will compete with Yang.
 
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The update informed by the magazine facebook is even depressing more. :hopelessness:
 
I think I've only seen a few of their skates, but personally I do think Cheng Peng (the girl?) looks better with Yang Jin (the guy?). Are a lot of fans upset by this, if true?
 
for TEB : he picked her up and held on to her until she got to the boards and saw her coach... He stepped aside, not in a careless way IMHO but to let her recuperate....what else do you want him to do ?

4everchan - you have just saved me a lot of venting!

I hadn't seen that video until this morning. But when I did, I saw it in exactly the same way as you!

He did everything a partner should. He helped her up (albeit in a rather ham-fisted fashion). He got her to the side so that she would not be in the way of any unsuspecting oncoming skaters. And then he stepped aside to allow her to get her breath back and get seen to.

For SP at worlds, what I see is a bit different... He saw her fall, yes... but didn't see her hit the board and crumbled... that's why he looked behind his shoulder and saw that she finally was getting back up and trying to rejoin him... his best bet there, to lose as little points as possible is to do the jump in the hope she does hers too... knowing Peng's difficulties on throws and SBS, the real fault here is to allow for those two elements to be skated so tightly back to back, not Z's work.... Also in competition, with adrenaline, it's difficult to really know what happened in his head.... skaters are trained to keep going.

Again, I agree that he did the right thing in looking round to check on her after her fall, and he saw her getting up. But the jury's still out for me on whether he should have attempted the next element when he did.

At the time he looked around, Hao was already well down the rink from Cheng, and she was only starting to get up. She did get up quickly, and really charged down the rink to catch up. But, by the time she did, he had already done his sbs.

Personally, I think he should have improvised for a few seconds to give her a better chance of catching up. But, it all happened so quickly, and you don't have much time to think. So, we shouldn't hold that decision against him.

finally, someone mentioned that he laughs at COR but by looking closely, IMHO, what I see is that he nearly fell down himself.... for an experienced thrower like him, it may be unsettling, like "wow, nothing is working today" kind of mood, hence the smirk.... look at him nearly tripping upon release

Well spotted! :bow: :clap: :points: I was too busy looking at her (naturally enough! ;) ), and hadn't noticed him stumbling.

Yes, now that I have watched the incident more carefully, I agree. That is exactly what the laugh / smile was about! A laugh of despair that everything was going wrong.

looking at these 3 excerpts, I do not see why there is a need to project such ill feelings.

I am not good at remembering particular incidents during competitions. So, reading the comments in this thread, I was imagining the incidents as really horrible things to watch. And when the links were posted, I was almost afraid to look at them. But, I am so glad now I did, because they are nothing like what I was imaging from the comments.

it is know that when holding a prejudice about someone, for whatever reason, it is difficult to see good in them

I am not sure, but I think you are right that the people using these incidents as evidence of Hao being a bad partner already have a negative mindset of him. They are looking at the incidents with whatever the opposite of rose-tinted glasses is.

I really don't like the hate messages directed at him...

Although I have tended to agree with most of your post, THIS is the statement I agree with the most. :bow: :clap: :points:

Thank you so much for posting this comment! :bow: :clap: :points:

CaroLiza_fan
 
I think I've only seen a few of their skates, but personally I do think Cheng Peng (the girl?) looks better with Yang Jin (the guy?). Are a lot of fans upset by this, if true?

That seems like the side effect of pairing up Yu and Zhang. Two sides of the same coin. If we're upset about Yu and Zhang, we're upset about Peng and Jin by definition.

But you're right. Jin is a better match to Peng than Zhang. She's probably gonna improve once the pressure is off. But from Jin's perspective, Yu is still a better partner than Peng.
 
That seems like the side effect of pairing up Yu and Zhang. Two sides of the same coin. If we're upset about Yu and Zhang, we're upset about Peng and Jin by definition.

But you're right. Jin is a better match to Peng than Zhang. She's probably gonna improve once the pressure is off. But from Jin's perspective, Yu is still a better partner than Peng.

wow, so are you saying Jin didn't want to partner up with Peng? This will be interesting. And whose idea was this?
 
wow, so are you saying Jin didn't want to partner up with Peng? This will be interesting. And whose idea was this?

Jin literally disappears from social media after this whole thing comes out, so we don't know his thoughts for sure. But Yu is his long-time partner and a more reliable jumper than Peng. I don't see why he would voluntarily want to skate with Peng. He was also super excited about the new programs he thought he and Yu were gonna get from David in that one week in Canada leading to the news. My guess is he at least feels very unprepared and disappointed by this whole situation.

We're debating about whose idea this is. But it seems so unbelievably stupid that we're leaning towards some dumb idiot authorities high up, not the coaching team.
 
If you haven't seen it already, FSU user feraina posted a translation of a very interesting article published in 2012 regarding Yao Bin's attitude towards pair-switching and Hao Zhang in particular. I find it quite upsetting how the CSA treats their pairs teams and how much politicking behind the scenes there are. What allegedly happened with Dang Zhang seems to be happening once again, and it's unfair to both teams in general.

Here's a section of the post that summarizes the article translation, but I would really suggest reading the whole post. It's a shame that this partner switch might become a reality.
So, let's summarize:
-- Yao thinks Hao Zhang is amazing because he can throw a girl farther than anyone else (even Zhao!)
-- If he and Zhang couldn't get to the Olympics, "all of this would be meaningless"; note that he's not just a private coach of Zhang but the head of the entire Chinese Pairs program (conflicted interest much??)
-- He thinks Hao Zhang hasn't gotten better result before because of Dan's height and weight, and all his injuries are because of her too (no mention of their inability to connect on ice or perform anything convincingly, and hence the low PCS they were stuck with!)
-- He thinks Peng is really a non-ideal choice in a desperate situation; and they all treat her like a kid and make fun of her; Zhang was already sometimes impatient with Peng in training
-- He thinks very little of Sui/Han and Yu/Jin; well, I can't tell if he really thinks very little of them or he's just purposely not mentioning them in order to emphasize the dire state of Chinese skating and the desperate need for finding Hao Zhang a good enough partner to hunt for a medal (gold?) in the Olympics; at other interviews where S/H are also competing, it's even more glaring when he omits mentioning them altogether as though they are invisible
-- He mentions the idea occurred to them of breaking up one of the "junior" couples but they were already fairly established (there were fan discussions of whom Yao meant, perhaps Sui/Han; there are also rumors that Hongbo Zhao was against splitting S/H, but I'm not sure he had any standing within CSA since he hadn't started coaching S/H or Y/J yet, but maybe as the "eldest son" of Yao he did have some influence even then; also Luan at the time seemed to have a little more influence than she does now, as she had two pairs that were doing very well on the junior circuits and starting to get noticed on the senior circuit, so she probably wouldn't have easily let Yao take either Sui or Yu)
-- There was little chance of Sui/Han getting to go to Sochi; that's why I was surprised they even bothered with the trouble of announcing the rule (which was apparently Zhao's idea) of averaging international and domestic competition scores in order to determine the 2nd entrant (the first was given to P/T as a new rule came out that season that previous Olympic medalists get an automatic berth for the Olympics, as though it could have been seen as anything but special treatment for P/T in Sochi...), since domestic competitions so obviously favored P/Z (through crazy PCS), and P/Z were given so much bigger a budget as well as Yao's personal coaching... even so, S/H almost did it; they were leading until the FS of NHK where they made some uncharacteristic mistakes and lost to P/Z (3rd to 2nd) and thus also the GPF qualification. But you can imagine how much pressure they must have been under, competing under such disadvantages...
 
Jin literally disappears from social media after this whole thing comes out, so we don't know his thoughts for sure. But Yu is his long-time partner and a more reliable jumper than Peng. I don't see why he would voluntarily want to skate with Peng. He was also super excited about the new programs he thought he and Yu were gonna get from David in that one week in Canada leading to the news. My guess is he at least feels very unprepared and disappointed by this whole situation.

We're debating about whose idea this is. But it seems so unbelievably stupid that we're leaning towards some dumb idiot authorities high up, not the coaching team.

wow, thanks for replying, lol :) I'm not too familiar with these two pairs, but I have seen some competitions of Peng and Zhang, and at worlds 2016, Peng fell really hard on her opening throw and hit the boards, and Zhang just skated away from her! I though, wow, he doesn't seem concerned for her at all, lol. And again, I'm now watching their 2015 GPF long program, and Peng again falls down really hard and Zhang just seems frustrated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf5cWtAP5s4, maybe it's just me, but he does seem frustrated with her as he just skates away, LOL.

Wow, this will be interesting. I'm going to follow these two new pairs now after they switch partners. Peng is beautiful, and Jin doesn't look bad himself, together, I think they make a better looking couple. But it's understandable Jin is very disappointed.
 
So now Yao is the evil man. Jeez, I can't take this any more. He said all these back in 2012, and he mentioned he didn't wanna break up the young pairs. Isn't that exactly the opposite of what's happening now? So why blame him? And in 2012 SH and YJ are junior, so of course Yao didn't think them as high as the senior pairs. And for the record SH messed up NHK and hence missed the opportunity to go to Sochi. I think it's fair and square.
 
IMO Peng's problem is on the mental part more than on the technics part, she was so young when she was picked to pair with the Olympic medalist, how much pressure the girl has gone through, no one can imagine.

Maybe it's a good decision for Peng, which can turn down the pressure for her a bit...

Some fan close to the athletes said Jin agreed but YU doesn't want to skate with Zhang, so she has no partner at the moment....,,,

What a drama!

LOL, yes, a lot of drama :) But I personally wouldn't mind seeing a Jin/Peng pairing. I think they make a better looking pair.
 
So now Yao is the evil man. Jeez, I can't take this any more. He said all these back in 2012, and he mentioned he didn't wanna break up the young pairs. Isn't that exactly the opposite of what's happening now? So why blame him? And in 2012 SH and YJ are junior, so of course Yao didn't think them as high as the senior pairs. And for the record SH messed up NHK and hence missed the opportunity to go to Sochi. I think it's fair and square.

Yes, it's important to note the date of the interview was four years ago, so things may have changed. It's also worth saying that at this moment, that this situation at the moment is a lot of speculation and rumors. None of us truly knows what's going on behind the scenes, and we just have to wait for confirmation before everyone jumps to conclusions or creates strong opinions on the situation.

The article was translated simply to get some more context of the situation, I believe, not to paint Yao Bin as some evil dictator of the CSA. Yao Bin helped create the pairs program in China, so he is a big name in the CSA and obviously has a lot of influence so his words are very important. I think any insight into the CSA is good context in figuring out what's going on with the pairs today. The summary of the article may be opinionated against Yao Bin/Hao Zhang but the article itself is quite useful in figuring out how the CSA handles its pairs teams, and especially how the pairs program differs from other countries. It's also helpful to consider cultural context in this situation (the post mentions how maintaining a good 'face' is very important in Chinese culture).

It's easy to paint Hao Zhang and Yao Bin in a negative light based on these interviews, but we can never know for sure who's pulling the strings behind this rumored split in the CSA. Of course, insulting them constantly won't do any good. However, I think the pairs girls also need lots of support, since they will arguably be the most affected if this split becomes a reality.
 
I don't want to insult him, but his physique and age are good reasons why it doesn't look beneficial for Yu to switch to skating with him.

And also, the main problem is still how un-supportive he looks of Peng. He throws her out there like a potato sack and then acts like he doesn't care when she has to take a hard fall. Seriously, her falls were by far the scariest of the ones I've seen in practices, and most often than not, he doesn't seem to care to look after her. Maybe this is just my impression, but I don't think so. And I'm pretty sure any young pairs lady would feel better if her partner showed a bit of interest in her health.

I feel bad for Zhang though. He deserves a suitable partner. But I would like to see a Jin/Peng paring and think they make a beautiful chinese pair :)
 
If you haven't seen it already, FSU user feraina posted a translation of a very interesting article published in 2012 regarding Yao Bin's attitude towards pair-switching and Hao Zhang in particular. I find it quite upsetting how the CSA treats their pairs teams and how much politicking behind the scenes there are. What allegedly happened with Dang Zhang seems to be happening once again, and it's unfair to both teams in general.

Here's a section of the post that summarizes the article translation, but I would really suggest reading the whole post. It's a shame that this partner switch might become a reality.

I read the original Chinese article and find the interpretation and "summary" given by that poster twisted and biased. I don't get the same impressions at all. I guess, as usual, people find convoluted ways to justify their beliefs and feelings.
 
I feel bad for Zhang though. He deserves a suitable partner. But I would like to see a Jin/Peng paring and think they make a beautiful chinese pair :)

He deserves a suitable willing partner. A pairs team is a partnership; 2 people need to work together to produce results on ice and clearly based on Yu's activity on Chinese social media, she is opposed. The prospect of potential doesn't matter, no one should have their freedom of choice violated like this. Frankly, I'm surprised the Fed hasn't punished Yu for liking the posts on Weibo because for any Chinese user, we can easily find it.

Some fans think he should step up and be a man by accepting her refusal. .

This sums up my thoughts towards this situation. If she is not willing, then don't let the federation make the decision for her.
 
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