Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners

[TheGrandSophy]

I am very sorry that the Yu and Jin seem to be being split up by the fed. I really liked them. I liked Peng and Zhang too other than the falls.

However, I do think some of the commentary from some posters in this thread is ludicrous. Some posts read like Yu is a young girl whose virginity is being sold to some 70 year old rake at the the bordello... Perhaps dial back the hyperbole, people?

 

[calica]

I honestly do not understand how adm. do not close this thread.
One thing is to discuss a rumor ( without any source) about a separation and another almost to the defamation.

Not only we assumes the separation, but almost all people blame Zhang as if he lead the Chinese federation.

And they accuse to Zhang of:

bad skater (this is not a problem because this is a FS forum)

bad person who injures to his pairs only for fun

And now, monster who likes teens.

shameful!

 

[bwayrose7]

I honestly do not understand how adm. do not close this thread.
One thing is to discuss a rumor ( without any source) about a separation and another almost to the defamation.

Not only we assumes the separation, but almost all people blame Zhang as if he lead the Chinese federation.

And they accuse to Zhang of:

bad skater (this is not a problem because this is a FS forum)

bad person who injures to his pairs only for fun

And now, monster who likes teens.

shameful!

I don't think anyone here would claim that Zhang is a "monster who likes teens" in a creepy way; I took that comment to imply that he prefers younger, smaller partners who are easier (presumably) to throw, and possibly an implication that he prefers partnerships where he clearly has more power. Likewise, I don't think a single person would say he tries to purposely injure his partners, only that he appears to be a bit on the careless and callous side (again, just from observations). The hyperbole seems to be going both ways.

I am very sorry that the Yu and Jin seem to be being split up by the fed. I really liked them. I liked Peng and Zhang too other than the falls.

However, I do think some of the commentary from some posters in this thread is ludicrous. Some posts read like Yu is a young girl whose virginity is being sold to some 70 year old rake at the the bordello... Perhaps dial back the hyperbole, people?

Exactly. It's a terrible thing if the fed really is breaking up two pairs who have both had some success, for whatever reasons. It's clear that, out of the four skaters involved, Yu would get the worst end of the bargain, but there's a difference between dislike and vilification.

I for one hope these rumors aren't true, or that at least if they are, that those who are holding out are able to hang on long enough to get the switch stopped in its tracks. Quite frankly, it seems narrow-minded of the Chinese Fed to break up a promising future pair, especially given that the biggest beneficiary (in theory) would be an aging skater who seems to be having difficulty clicking with partners.

 

[Sweet Dream]

However, I do think some of the commentary from some posters in this thread is ludicrous. Some posts read like Yu is a young girl whose virginity is being sold to some 70 year old rake at the the bordello... Perhaps dial back the hyperbole, people?

Why are these posts ridiculous? Zhang should know better than to agree to such "forced partnership" if he really takes Yu's future into consideration. You'd better say that his mindset/ambitions is truly ridiculous as well as those officials' irresistible instructions!

 

[bluebamboo]

I am extremely sad these days over what the Chinese Federation has done to the skaters. And I say this as a Chinese who fell in love with figure skating because of our pair teams. As most people have known, China's competitive sport system is different from the North America, as the fed provides and controls everything for the athletes. However, this is based on the fed's belief about their competitive ability, given their past results and future potential. I admit that we have a corrupt system for this - crazy things have happened in table tennis, tennis, soccer (assuming it exist in China), and now, figure skating. (Actually, Dan Zhang's retirement is still under debate that she was forced by the fed.)

If the decision is solely based on competitive ability I would not protest so badly. Bin Yao etc have worked so hard to establish the pairs team among international judges and audiences, which would be impossible without the achievements of Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, and Zhang/Zhang. Instead, this time it is the fed's way of handling this drama that is nasty. First, it is against the athlete's own decision, poor girl Xiaoyu now has to leave her long-time and well-matched partner and doesn't even have a way to protest. Second, why do they think Hao Zhang always have the privilege of having the best partner, even at the cost of breaking up a well-established pair? Yu/Jin have such potential and artistic quality that is so rare to see, and splitting them would only ruin their promising career. I am heart-broken that Yu/Jin, particularly Yu, have to go through this at such a young age. Even if some magic happens and Yu/Zhang win all the medals (which probably won't happen given the fierce competition), I won't be following their programs, and many, many skating fans in China will do the same.

Sorry this is a not-so-short rant, the news is devastating to a long-time fan. Let's see how the coaches will respond to media at TCC.

 

[snowday]

Do you have evidence for any of that?

I'm not vilifying him. That "back issues" comment he said so himself in an interview. It's in Chinese but I can give you the link. I did make a mistake--he said "she crashed into me doing the lift". Not the twist as I originally said.

About his partner choice, back in the days when he chose the successor to Dan Zhang, there were several (3? 4?) candidates who were arguably better technicians than Peng. He picked Peng, the smallest and youngest of them all. Dan Zhang was forced into retirement after her growth spurt (if you read Chinese, go check her old micro-blog posts where she said "I'm just a pawn").

I'm only saying he or whoever is making decisions for him has a preference for smaller girls. I'm not accusing him of his PERSONAL preferences. But Yu's going to be a tall girl. That's why I don't understand this switch.

 

[Giselle]

I for one hope these rumors aren't true, or that at least if they are, that those who are holding out are able to hang on long enough to get the switch stopped in its tracks. Quite frankly, it seems narrow-minded of the Chinese Fed to break up a promising future pair, especially given that the biggest beneficiary (in theory) would be an aging skater who seems to be having difficulty clicking with partners.

That's exactly the point of most people in this thread and why I'm sad, not excited about these new pairs.

Tbh Hao Zhang seems to be a nice (and very funny) guy in real life. What I dislike is the continued favoritism of the Chinese Federation towards him.

 

[silverlake22]

Peng can't even hold 2A-2A sequence together, so I guess Yu is marginally better. But you're absolutely right--Yu is by no means significantly better than Peng. She's also quite tall. I think she's growing taller by day, just like Peng. Zhang blames his back injuries on Peng crashing into him when doing the twists. Well, Yu isn't much smaller.

And if Zhang has his way, he's skating all the way to 2022. He's not gonna accept a "retired female single skater", and I say it totally in a non-creepy way--it seems like he wants his partner young and small. Preferably a teenager. I'm not insinuating anything. But he trades in his old partner for a younger (if not in age at least in experiences) skater twice already.

According to their ISU bios Yu is actually taller than Peng, 162 cm versus 159 cm. Now, Peng may have grown but either way Yu is one of the taller pair girls competing these days. And I wouldn't expect their to be a big weight difference between Peng and Yu either, they are both very thin/wiry so I don't see why Zhang thinks things with Yu will work better than things with Peng. Yu has a better SBS 3t and 2a and that's really the only big difference. She isn't smaller than Peng, she isn't significantly older or younger than her, her body type is similar, and she doesn't want to skate with Zhang. So whose bright idea was it to make this switch?

 

[solani]

I'm not vilifying him. That "back issues" comment he said so himself in an interview. It's in Chinese but I can give you the link. I did make a mistake--he said "she crashed into me doing the lift". Not the twist as I originally said.

About his partner choice, back in the days when he chose the successor to Dan Zhang, there were several (3? 4?) candidates who were arguably better technicians than Peng. He picked Peng, the smallest and youngest of them all. Dan Zhang was forced into retirement after her growth spurt (if you read Chinese, go check her old micro-blog posts where she said "I'm just a pawn").

I'm only saying he or whoever is making decisions for him has a preference for smaller girls. I'm not accusing him of his PERSONAL preferences. But Yu's going to be a tall girl. That's why I don't understand this switch.

To me it sounds as if he explained how his back injury happened. Pairs is a dangerous sport, not only for the female skater. Male skaters are in constant danger as well.
Maybe he chose Peng because she was small, but he very likely enjoyed skating with her, ever thought about that? Dan Zhang was growing too tall for him. Too tall for the tricks those top pair skaters have to do anyway. I can understand that she wasn't happy about it, but the best thing she could have had would have been a pro career with Zhang and the Chinese Fed obviously didn't want this.
I still doubt that Zhang is making the decisions here. If Dan felt like a pawn, Zhang is very likely also a pawn. It's just so easy to make a villain of him.
I'm not ready to condemn him without real proof and you haven't been able to provide it imho.

 

[snowday]

To me it sounds as if he explained how his back injury happened. Pairs is a dangerous sport, not only for the female skater. Male skaters are in constant danger as well.
Maybe he chose Peng because she was small, but he very likely enjoyed skating with her, ever thought about that? Dan Zhang was growing too tall for him. Too tall for the tricks those top pair skaters have to do anyway. I can understand that she wasn't happy about it, but the best thing she could have had would have been a pro career with Zhang and the Chinese Fed obviously didn't want this.
I still doubt that Zhang is making the decisions here. If Dan felt like a pawn, Zhang is very likely also a pawn. It's just so easy to make a villain of him.
I'm not ready to condemn him without real proof and you haven't been able to provide it imho.

I pictured your response in my head before I even read it, and I got almost everything right. There's certainly more than one way to interpret almost any evidence and you have a very high standard for "beyond reasonable doubt". I don't think he's a villain either. Maybe people around him are all cry babes.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[solani]

I provide you with interviews and posts. You provide me with your beliefs. I don't think you want to be convinced by me. But it's okay.

Let's agree to disagree.

Yes, let's agree on that.
But those interviews and posts are no proof to me, because there's so much room for interpretation. You read what you want to read in it and I try to not condemn people when there's another possible explanation.

 

[QuadThrow]

The upcoming split is really sad especially for Jin. But I am more optimistic than many other users. Peng/Zhang´s development was really disappointing. Although their start in 2013 was promising, they did not match last year. He is too strong and looks too mature in comparision to her. This did not work at all last season although their programs were always well defined.

Yu/Zhang could become a real top class pair. She is taller and more gracile. This pair will remind me of Zhang/Zhang. And even Peng/Jin will have their chances to become successful. Maybe some fans and users will change their opinion in a few years.

Figure skating is a sport with a lot of drama and many moving stories. I like this. Almost noone expected Savchenk/Massot to be that sucessful and now they are on their way to become the best. No Russian on the podium with D/R defending their title. Every year is different to the other.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I am extremely sad these days over what the Chinese Federation has done to the skaters. And I say this as a Chinese who fell in love with figure skating because of our pair teams. As most people have known, China's competitive sport system is different from the North America, as the fed provides and controls everything for the athletes. However, this is based on the fed's belief about their competitive ability, given their past results and future potential. I admit that we have a corrupt system for this - crazy things have happened in table tennis, tennis, soccer (assuming it exist in China), and now, figure skating. (Actually, Dan Zhang's retirement is still under debate that she was forced by the fed.)

If the decision is solely based on competitive ability I would not protest so badly. Bin Yao etc have worked so hard to establish the pairs team among international judges and audiences, which would be impossible without the achievements of Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, and Zhang/Zhang. Instead, this time it is the fed's way of handling this drama that is nasty. First, it is against the athlete's own decision, poor girl Xiaoyu now has to leave her long-time and well-matched partner and doesn't even have a way to protest. Second, why do they think Hao Zhang always have the privilege of having the best partner, even at the cost of breaking up a well-established pair? Yu/Jin have such potential and artistic quality that is so rare to see, and splitting them would only ruin their promising career. I am heart-broken that Yu/Jin, particularly Yu, have to go through this at such a young age. Even if some magic happens and Yu/Zhang win all the medals (which probably won't happen given the fierce competition), I won't be following their programs, and many, many skating fans in China will do the same.

Sorry this is a not-so-short rant, the news is devastating to a long-time fan. Let's see how the coaches will respond to media at TCC.

I find few facts in your whole post. Assumptions, rumours, and beliefs are called facts, decisions, and news, on which you based strong feelings, judgments, further speculations and your future action on your speculations.

The rumoured split and switch may or may not happen. If it does, we may or may not know the real reasons.

 

[Giselle]

Yu/Peng could become a real top class pair. She is taller and more gracile. This pair will remind me of Zhang/Zhang. And even Peng/Jin will have their chances to become successful. Maybe some fans and users will change their opinion in a few years.

Yu/Peng, now that's a team I'm ready to root for

 

[lyndichee]

I'm not vilifying him. That "back issues" comment he said so himself in an interview. It's in Chinese but I can give you the link. I did make a mistake--he said "she crashed into me doing the lift". Not the twist as I originally said.

Yes, let's agree on that.
But those interviews and posts are no proof to me, because there's so much room for interpretation. You read what you want to read in it and I try to not condemn people when there's another possible explanation.

Hey snowday, can you provide a link here? There could be room for interpretation but tone and the way he says it could speak volumes. It would nice to for more Mandarin speakers to interpret it to see if it is any proof of his dissatisfaction. I believe other posters are also native speakers could also provide commentary to confirm/deny whether others are reading what they want to read.

Unfortunately there is a lot of speculation here.

 

[snowday]

Hey snowday, can you provide a link here? There could be room for interpretation but tone and the way he says it could speak volumes. It would nice to for more Mandarin speakers to interpret it to see if it is any proof of his dissatisfaction. I believe other posters are also native speakers could also provide commentary to confirm/deny whether others are reading what they want to read.

Unfortunately there is a lot of speculation here.

Sure. Here's the link:

http://m.wj001.com/news/sports/1172255

This article was explaining why Peng/Zhang were absent from the 13th Chinese Winter Games (I explained earlier that missing this competition was devastating to both of them. It's a lot of reward money and a medal here directly affects athletes' life quality after retirement).

When Zhang talked about his back injuries, he said "Peng fell off from the lift and crashed into me. Then my back injuries relapsed." The article went on to say it actually happened on GPF last year but no one seemed to notice the lift incident at that time (I certainly didn't myself)

At the end of the article, Zhang said "I want to skate all the way to 2022 Winter Olympics."

I'm not saying his comment here is malicious. My original post only meant to say he's not 100% anymore. If a small girl like Peng crashing into him can cause back injuries, a tall girl like Yu can probably do more damage to him. That's why I don't understand the switch. I did use the word "blame" to describe his comment before. Maybe that's too strong.

 

[lyndichee]

Sure. Here's the link:

http://m.wj001.com/news/sports/1172255

This article was explaining why Peng/Zhang were absent from the 13th Chinese Winter Games (I explained earlier that missing this competition was devastating to both of them. It's a lot of reward money and a medal here directly affects athletes' life quality after retirement).

When Zhang talked about his back injuries, he said "Peng fell off from the lift and crashed into me. Then my back injuries relapsed." The article went on to say it actually happened on GPF last year but no one seemed to notice the lift incident at that time (I certainly didn't myself)

At the end of the article, Zhang said "I want to skate all the way to 2022 Winter Olympics."

I'm not saying his comment here is malicious. My original post only meant to say he's not 100% anymore. If a small girl like Peng crashing into him can cause back injuries, a tall girl like Yu can probably do more damage to him. That's why I don't understand the switch. I did use the word "blame" to describe his comment before. Maybe that's too strong.

Thanks for link. "Blame" is definitely not the right word for it. I can sort of see why it is interpreted as negative as he says Peng crashed into him from a lift, not alluding to whether it was her actually crashing or he didn't dismount correctly. To add on, he never really mentions him and Peng as a unit, it's just him talking about his own plans. At the end of the day though, I think its just him explaining the origin of the injury, not blame.

I think this thread should just be used to report any news or confirmations about splits or links to vote to reject if some members use Chinese social media accounts. I think a lot of people are making unnecessary speculations about the situation which can be harmful.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yu is still shorter than Dan Zhang, who is listed at 164 cm in her ISU bio, and was probably taller.


http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00003604.htm

 

[sylvie]

When Dan Zhang retired she was 5'7" (169.5 cm). So basically she was the same height as Carolina Kostner, who I always thought was quite statuesque.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Peng can't even hold 2A-2A sequence together, so I guess Yu is marginally better. But you're absolutely right--Yu is by no means significantly better than Peng. She's also quite tall. I think she's growing taller by day, just like Peng. Zhang blames his back injuries on Peng crashing into him when doing the twists. Well, Yu isn't much smaller.

Having read the Chinese report you based your opinion on, I do not see Zhang blaming Peng nor how you can postulate his desire for as small a partner as possible.

"Crash" is a misleading translation. We would all have seen a crash. Zhang did not say Peng crashed into him as you stated. He said Peng hit his waist when she was dropping from a lift and that aggravated an old injury. They finished the program without his injury being noticed but he was not able to train for for three weeks.

At no point did he indicate it was Peng's fault or that she was too large, or a smaller partner would have prevented any such future injury.

And if Zhang has his way, he's skating all the way to 2022. He's not gonna accept a "retired female single skater", and I say it totally in a non-creepy way--it seems like he wants his partner young and small. Preferably a teenager. I'm not insinuating anything. But he trades in his old partner for a younger (if not in age at least in experiences) skater twice already.

All male Pairs skater prefer a small partner among all considerations and Zhang had the tallest one of all for 15 years. She became too tall to be a Pairs skater eventually. Finding him a new partner was a joint effort, with Coach Yao expressing how few choices there were, taking into consideration their principle of not touching more mature Junior partnerships. Zhang expressed how much he missed the connection he had with his old tall partner as he began a new partnership. The dissolution of the original partnership was inevitable and reluctant, not because he wanted to trade for a small young partner. As for switching Peng for Yu, it is not confirmed at all by any announcement or observation, and what may have actually caused it to happen is not known at all even if it happens. I don't see how you can make all those statements about Zhang's proclivities at all.