The splitting event of Yu/Jin - a summary
- Thread starter zhaojin4576
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- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
I don't think anyone really knows the true reason for the split. Some very negative things have been said about Narumi being selfish and just wanting to go to the Olympics, but it must have been terrifying to split with Mervin, who I think she really trusted, to team up with a total beginner. She probably did get a lot of pressure from the fed. She and Mervin were such a fun and lively couple, I loved watching them. But TBH I think it was right that he didn't get Japanese citizenship. He had no ties to Japan apart from Narumi, made no attempt to learn Japanese (as far as I can tell), didn't live there, and his parents were immigrants to Canada. It would have made no sense for him to give up his Canadian citizenship. I've said this before, but some things really are more important than figure skating.
Different skaters can have different goals, and different goals at different times of their lives. The only thing that really surprised me about Narumi getting a Japanese partner so she could go to the Olympics was the timing. She did get to go to the Olympics, but the split / new partnership came far too late for them to have any realistic chance of success there.
One of ice network's journalists who covers Chinese skating news translated some quotes from a CCTV interview about the split. Her Twitter timeline is here: https://mobile.twitter.com/pandaatlarge
She posted an article(?) on her blog too, but it is in Chinese so I can't read it: https://t.co/JlYYNuGww7
She posted an article(?) on her blog too, but it is in Chinese so I can't read it: https://t.co/JlYYNuGww7
I saw the video on tumblr and it wouldn't load for me but I saw the transcripts and I am disappointed in Zhao, apparently she did not hide her disappointment at all
and the article is an interview from after 2015 NHK Trophy when Yu was still with Jin. I translated it here:
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Great job.
Zhao Hongbo comfirmed that Lori and David Wilson agreed with the split. Can anyone ask them on the social network if they did say so? It is hard to imagine that David and Lori to give such suggestions. I wonder if Zhao said thr truth. If this is not the truth, it is unfair for Lori and David.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I think the interview makes it abundantly clear what we knew already: Xiaoyu is being forced into this against her will, and she's still not happy about it. How could those vile officials do such a thing?! To force a young athlete to split from the partner they trust and work well with and force her to skate with an old man who will happily blame her for every error and throw her into the boards and not care?
But of course. It's China. They don't care. They've made the decision, the decision that favours seniority, and everyone else must fall in line. It's just like that Korean Air crash years ago when the younger first officer knew something was wrong but could not speak out of turn against the more senior officer. It was a dumb attitude then and it's a dumb attitude now. At least, unlike a plane crash, Xiaoyu isn't likely to die because of it, but I'm sure it won't be long before she's the one getting thrown into boards if she dissatisfies her partner in any way.
But of course. It's China. They don't care. They've made the decision, the decision that favours seniority, and everyone else must fall in line. It's just like that Korean Air crash years ago when the younger first officer knew something was wrong but could not speak out of turn against the more senior officer. It was a dumb attitude then and it's a dumb attitude now. At least, unlike a plane crash, Xiaoyu isn't likely to die because of it, but I'm sure it won't be long before she's the one getting thrown into boards if she dissatisfies her partner in any way.
- Joined
- May 4, 2015
This is really sad.
First of all, it appears that Bin Yao is very jealous of the coaching success of his former partner Bo Luan. They used to be partners and must have gone through so much together, being the first Chinese pair team and learning how to do elements from videotapes, and now it looks like he'd do anything to prevent her teams from taking World spots from his teams.
Secondly, I think that everybody remembers how Dan Zhang suffered an awful fall at the Olympics, but went on to skate regardless, resulting in her and Hao Zhang earning a silver medal, and that's how her partner and her coach expressed their gratitude and appreciation - by forcing her to retire in favor of somebody half her partner's age?
And now it seems to me that Xiaoyu Yu and Jang Jin were a better team, but because Bin Yao obviously has more weight in his Federation than his former partner, Yu and Jin didn't get new programs this season and then didn't get to go to Worlds, to sabotage them and set the stage for splitting them. I think that the Chinese Fed has set itself up for defeat at the Olympics, because if not sabotaged, I think Yu/Jin had a higher chance of winnnig a medal there than Yu/Zhang, but unfortunately, as always, it's not just the Fed that suffers from its unethical decisions, but the skaters as well.
I do, however, also wish to add this. It has been repeatedly said in this thread how Jang Jin is a much more considerate partner than Hao Zhang, but in the interview quoted by Krunchii we read:
This doesn't paint him in a sympathetic light at all. How on earth are female skaters supposed to "manage their weight"? Live on starvation rations? How tall or how curvy one grows up to be depends on one's genes, and it's not something one has any control over. The only way to force nature is to eat considerably less than is healthy. It's understandable that there's a limit to how much a guy can lift, but his saying that his previous partners failed to manage their weight implies that he thinks it was their fault that they didn't keep their pre-puberty size or close to it forever.
First of all, it appears that Bin Yao is very jealous of the coaching success of his former partner Bo Luan. They used to be partners and must have gone through so much together, being the first Chinese pair team and learning how to do elements from videotapes, and now it looks like he'd do anything to prevent her teams from taking World spots from his teams.
Secondly, I think that everybody remembers how Dan Zhang suffered an awful fall at the Olympics, but went on to skate regardless, resulting in her and Hao Zhang earning a silver medal, and that's how her partner and her coach expressed their gratitude and appreciation - by forcing her to retire in favor of somebody half her partner's age?
And now it seems to me that Xiaoyu Yu and Jang Jin were a better team, but because Bin Yao obviously has more weight in his Federation than his former partner, Yu and Jin didn't get new programs this season and then didn't get to go to Worlds, to sabotage them and set the stage for splitting them. I think that the Chinese Fed has set itself up for defeat at the Olympics, because if not sabotaged, I think Yu/Jin had a higher chance of winnnig a medal there than Yu/Zhang, but unfortunately, as always, it's not just the Fed that suffers from its unethical decisions, but the skaters as well.
I do, however, also wish to add this. It has been repeatedly said in this thread how Jang Jin is a much more considerate partner than Hao Zhang, but in the interview quoted by Krunchii we read:
This doesn't paint him in a sympathetic light at all. How on earth are female skaters supposed to "manage their weight"? Live on starvation rations? How tall or how curvy one grows up to be depends on one's genes, and it's not something one has any control over. The only way to force nature is to eat considerably less than is healthy. It's understandable that there's a limit to how much a guy can lift, but his saying that his previous partners failed to manage their weight implies that he thinks it was their fault that they didn't keep their pre-puberty size or close to it forever.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
You certainly make everything sad and ugly with declarations of your very negative conjectures as facts, accompanied by rash judgments.
There are physical requirements for all sports and female Pairs partners can't be too large or heavy. Zhang Dan quit because she unfortunately overgrew her stature, costing Zhang Hao the ideal partner he still misses. And it's not necessary to judge Jin as inconsiderate or to imply chauvinism because his earlier partners got too heavy for him. All athletes need to maintain their physical conditions to be as close to ideal as possible for their sports. Of course, it's particularly perilous for female athletes in sports that they excel in before puberty because their eventual body types may change to be unfavorable. As well, it's completely untrue that ones has to starve to be slim.
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- Nov 16, 2014
The mindset of those Chinese you can never understand. They love to dream of their Home Olympics even though it is still nearly 6 years away from now, and they also love to conseal their own personal ambitions by talking about the so-called "National Glory". How old will Zhang be in 2022 realistically? I am sure Yu and Zhang will be the only Chinese Golden Couple on home ice by then!
After that, Zhang will surely rant he is so proud for his motherland and blah blah blah, and Zhao will naturally be recognized as one of the best pairs coach in the world, on a par with his teacher Yao. 
Yeah, they are free to weave whatever dreams they like, but who really cares?I think you're picking and choosing what you want to be angry about. Female and male skaters have to manage their weight because the physics of figure skating can be very particular. China doesn't starve the girls; their program is extremely well funded by the government and they have nutritionists to help with their weight management.
He said their weight was out of his control; that suggests to me that he couldn't and didn't control their weight. He wasn't criticizing them or policing their bodies however if their weight went past a certain threshold, what was he suppose to do? Break his shoulder? Maybe he wasn't even talking about puberty. He wasn't implying fault, he was stating a fact.
It is like at the 4CC interviews after the skates, a lot of skater said they went to have dumplings in Taiwan but they are salty and salt can make you bloat, so skaters have to manage what they eat. Shibs have taken pictures of ice cream sandwiches saying "off-season eats". Skaters are athletes and have to be careful.
This interview [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28EMyPAYjZk] I watched years ago of Shen and Zhao and Shen said that when they practiced the twist, he could feel whether she gained some weight and she was just lose the weight when they realized it making a difference in their practice. She said it very casually.
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- Oct 15, 2014
I don't know if the video of the interview has been posted. There are clips of Yu/Zhang practising. And Peng/Jin in the background :sad21:
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- Nov 19, 2010
Aren't the Olympics, the world's most popular events, the most legitimate and positive occasions for nationalism, with nations going wild and proud with their athletes' achievements? Medal counts are followed closely, arousing a whole range of emotions. According to whichever counting method would put them ahead, the US ranks participating countries by either total medals or Gold medals won at each Olympics. There is an intense bidding war for hosting each Olympics with high price tags and the hosting nations spend years and huge sums preparing the venues, the publicity, and especially the training of the athletes, hoping not just for the successful staging of the events but also glorious showing of their athletes, the potential national heroes? Isn't it the greatest dream of all athletes to represent their country at the Olympics, the ultimate goal and motivation being the Olympic Gold Medal? You call yourself Sweet Dream, yet consider all these the unique and incomprehensible mindset of the Chinese?
How old will Zhang be in 2022 realistically? I am sure Yu and Zhang will be the only Chinese Golden Couple on home ice by then!
Best to put out and enjoy the sarcasm and insults based on a manufactured future or else there may not be a chance when the future arrives.
I'm sure quite some people care, among over a billion Chinese watching the home Olympics.
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- Nov 19, 2010
Translation is not easy, and often it's better to present an idea in a way that's easy to read and understand in the translated language than a straight word for word translation. krunchii did a wonderful job on the latest article present here. :thumbsup:
However, seeing how Jin's reply to a question has caused some denunciation of his character, his words may need some closer review and explanation.
金：其实也没有很多（笑）。因为女孩子在练双人滑的时候涉及到体重问题，我之前的女伴也都没能很好掌握自己的身材，所以也是没有办法的。
Krunchii translated Jin's opinion that it was out of his control that his previous partners had a hard time managing their weight.
Straightly, Jin said they were unable to control their figure (身材, body shape, a term that can be used on both genders though of course more attention and descriptions are directed to women's bodies), therefore it's something without a solution. 没有办法 is a common expression, no way/solution, i.e. nothing can be done about it. No personal pronoun is used here, just it is what it is. So it's not just out of his control, but he could mean it's out of the girls' and everybody's control, implying it might be a puberty issue.
Just language nuances requiring clarification when some words are so emphasized and negatively viewed.
As to the rant that it's not the girls' fault to control their shape and weight, it's not Jin's fault either, though I believe they had the responsibility to manage their weight, in a healthy fashion. As well, the Chinese Pair girls are not the only skaters hurt by the puberty monster.
However, seeing how Jin's reply to a question has caused some denunciation of his character, his words may need some closer review and explanation.
金：其实也没有很多（笑）。因为女孩子在练双人滑的时候涉及到体重问题，我之前的女伴也都没能很好掌握自己的身材，所以也是没有办法的。
Krunchii translated Jin's opinion that it was out of his control that his previous partners had a hard time managing their weight.
Straightly, Jin said they were unable to control their figure (身材, body shape, a term that can be used on both genders though of course more attention and descriptions are directed to women's bodies), therefore it's something without a solution. 没有办法 is a common expression, no way/solution, i.e. nothing can be done about it. No personal pronoun is used here, just it is what it is. So it's not just out of his control, but he could mean it's out of the girls' and everybody's control, implying it might be a puberty issue.
Just language nuances requiring clarification when some words are so emphasized and negatively viewed.
As to the rant that it's not the girls' fault to control their shape and weight, it's not Jin's fault either, though I believe they had the responsibility to manage their weight, in a healthy fashion. As well, the Chinese Pair girls are not the only skaters hurt by the puberty monster.
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- May 4, 2015
So you’re saying that it’s Hongbo Zhao whose influence with the Chinese Fed is greater than Bo Luan’s and he’s using it to sabotage her team in the fight for Worlds’ quotas?
And, please, try to be more polite.
Well, from my POV, your post is a harsh judgment of my post.
Zhang Dan was born in October of 1985 and retired in May of 2012, when she was 26. Who is still growing at this age? And it was clearly stated in other members’ posts in this thread that she didn’t quit, but was made to retire. Whether Zhang Hao considers her the ideal partner and whether he misses her are likely your conjectures; even if he said something like that, it may well have been PR in response to her posting on Twitter how she was made to quit. But in any case, how he feels about the situation doesn’t change the fact that she was made to retire against her will after her sacrifice at the Olympics which has brought her and her partner the silver medals there. And, TBH, I think it would be very unusual for an elite, actively training figure skater to change at 26 in a significant way.
Whether a woman has to starve oneself or not in order to be close to ideal for pairs figure skating depends on one’s genes. If one is destined to be tall and/or curvy one would have to. Of course, a lot depends on the man’s height and strength, so different men would have different limits, but all would have some limits, as I’ve said in the post you quoted. Splitting with the partner who has become to heavy for one is not inconsiderate, but implying that she should have “managed” her weight better, and consequently that the split was her fault is. I have read your subsequent post in which you say that what he actually said was not that she didn’t manage her weight, and so the situation was beyond his control, but that it was beyond anyone’s control, which does sound better. I don’t know Chinese, and so I only have other people’s translations to go from. If he did imply that it was nobody’s fault, and she was indeed happy skating with him, then it’s certainly very sad that they were made to split.
I wrote that I’m sad, not angry. And I certainly don’t want to be angry about anything. So naturally I don’t look for reasons to be so.
I’ve responded on the puberty issue above. So I will only add here in reply that I’m sure all Chinese skaters are responsible in their eating choices, exactly because their training is paid by the government rather than their parents or themselves, and so they’d lose their spots in the skating program if they ate wrong foods during the fs season, and it showed in their weight. I don’t know if the Chinese coaches ever tell the female skaters to eat less than is healthy (not in these words, of course) – the presence of nutritionists doesn’t guarantee that a coach who doesn’t want to lose a talented skater won’t push her to eat too little. However, since I don’t know one way or another, I’m not saying anything on this topic. All I’m saying is that suggesting that it’s a woman’s fault if she grows to tall or too curvy because she “didn’t manage her weight” is wrong IMO. If Jang Jin didn’t say or imply that, then I’m very sad that he and Jang Jin had to split.
The audacity to tell someone to be nice when you weren't being very nice and rational either.
Nobody wants to be angry/sad about something intentionally but I think me and a lot of others can clearly see you are picking out details to be outraged about.
Your post is the biggest non-answer I've ever seen. You made an assumption about a translated sentence and took it out of context. He never suggested it. Your assumptions about Chinese skaters with their coaches, presence of nutritionists etc. is troubling. You went from a negative and unfounded assumption about Jin Yang's (the least you could do is get his name right) character to talking about theoretical abuse that hasn't been proven. Since you don't know about the subject and you're "not saying anything on this topic", then why say anything at all?
Nobody wants to be angry/sad about something intentionally but I think me and a lot of others can clearly see you are picking out details to be outraged about.
Your post is the biggest non-answer I've ever seen. You made an assumption about a translated sentence and took it out of context. He never suggested it. Your assumptions about Chinese skaters with their coaches, presence of nutritionists etc. is troubling. You went from a negative and unfounded assumption about Jin Yang's (the least you could do is get his name right) character to talking about theoretical abuse that hasn't been proven. Since you don't know about the subject and you're "not saying anything on this topic", then why say anything at all?
Thanks boo for helping me clear it up, I thought about that sentence a lot but I posted it up the interview rather quickly because this interview really shows what kind of dynamic the two had, it's very sweet in Chinese how they talk about each other. I probably should have flagged it as ambiguous too. It is the fact of any sport that weight can affect performance, especially in a sport like figure skating where little things can throw you totally off and even more sensitive in pairs where the partners work together so closely. It is not Jin's job to take care of his partner's weight, he was young and growing too at the time and probably had his own demons to deal with.
As the original translator I suppose I owe you an explanation. There are nuances and meanings you just can't translate easily from one language to another. Please don't assume the worst, it's one sentence. Read Violet Bliss' explanation and my response to her above and you will get a better idea. There are a lot of ways I could have translated it but the basis is that weight is sensitive and there was nothing that could have been done. Violet Bliss is right that he did not use any personal pronouns in the final sentence so it could mean out of his control, out of the coaches' control, out of the girls' control etc. I will go edit it now to give people a better picture of what he said. He was not negatively talking about women's bodies, it's just a fact, weight will affect performance, especially in pairs and girls tend to grow a lot in a short period of time.
Also his name is Yang not Jang.
As for other people you're all starting to sound really xenophobic. Be careful with your words and prejudices. Chinese people are a very diverse group and not a monolith.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I observed the facts and stated them, i.e. you judged people involved based on negative conjectures and preconceptions. E.g.
She did, against what's considered normal and certainly against her and everybody's wish. This is fact. Hao started having injuries and she grew some more during his recovery period. The problem remained and the only resolution was for her to retire. I would quit too in her situation.
And
So it's fact because some people posted so?
Unlike you, I read Chinese and know that this is not true. He brings her up when he talks to reporters to reminisce the connection they had, that she knew exactly what he thought just with a glance from him and that her hand was always there when he reached for it. He said this was something he and Peng still needed time to develop. He said the same thing in a few reports I happened to read, even the ones linked here and selectively translated for you and others they wanted to influence. In one, in talking about his recent injury, he brought up Dan because with her, the long time partner, they could easily pick it up after a month of not training whereas with Peng they had to start all over again. Not P.R. in response to her twitter. BTW, show me her twitter you mentioned.
Supporting evidences, please, and not some other people's say so and conjectures. Show me anything from Dan that says she was made to quit, or something authentic that can be reasonably deduced that it was indeed what happened. She sounded quite happy when interviewed at the time as well as in the few videos and articles I happened to come across later. She was an extremely driven athlete and touched many people with her courage at the Olympics. She and Hao had a very successful career togetrher that nobody can deny and he especially never put her down or complained against her. But she grew in her twenties, something totally unexpected and undesired by anybody. She could not be a Pairs skater any more. She remains supportive of Hao as far as I know from reading her own words and reports of her attending his competitions. Check your facts or at least back up your counter claims. A person's height is not something that can be hidden.
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- Nov 16, 2014
My username has nothing to do with my comments, doesn't it?
BTW, it is a waste of my time to argue with such a sensitive poster like you.
