Poll: Best all-around female skater? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Poll: Best all-around female skater?

Blades of Passion said:
I would say her "inconsistency" has largely been the result of trying to do the most difficult programs ever attempted. Where would everyone else be if they tried to do a 3Axel in every program, plus a second 3Axel or a 3Flip+3Loop in every Long Program?
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While I admire her personal conviction, it's still a fact that her programs are hit and miss. The most extreme was in Sochi 2014 where the SP was a big miss followed by arguably the best ever LP I had ever seen by a lady skater although the judging of her LP left a lot to be desired.

This somewhat reminded me of the early 2000s when Irina Slutskaya was competing fiercely with Michelle Kwan. Knowing that she will never have the level of softness, presentation and refined lines as Kwan, Slutskaya repeatedly went for tough combos and difficult spin positions. How successful was she? Not often on the biggest competitions, although she more often won in smaller competitions. The 6.0 era simply didn't have enough granularity to differentiate the technical elements but as Kwan was always ahead on the presentation, Slutskaya had little choice except to try to push her tech levels so high that judges simply could not ignore it, which resulted in a lot of wonky landings and inconsistency. CoP arrived just in time to allow her the max out the last and best years since her tricks and difficulty in spins were exactly what CoP rewarded.

In Mao's case, I think it was more a personal battle to better herself rather than fighting Yuna which led to the toughies. That inconsistency for whatever reason just made me take her off my personal all round skater. Of course there are many consistent skaters like Miyahara or Medvedeva but they don't qualify due to poor (albeit improving) jumps (Miyahara) and mediocre SS + skating through music (Evgenia).
 
temadd said:
I agree. I would not call Evgenia un-musical but she does seem to show emotional connection to the music for only the first 10-15 seconds and the last 5 seconds of her program. The rest of the time she's pretty much business.
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I admire the fight and grittiness of Medvedeva but you have just described why I simply don't enjoy her skating. Part of it is her rather mediocre flow and basic skating skills. Another is that she simply skated through the music despite that her choreographer had cobbled together a pretty good program.
 
that's a cop out argument to use your own words.. If a skater doesn't have a jump, they don't do it. Mao is known for her 3A and her 3F-3L. She's succeeded them many times. She's confident enough to put them in her programs. That's her choice... When she's off, she falters and that's why she is perceived as inconsistent. That's all... Some male skaters are very consistent but quadless... that's their choice.... risk vs reward. If consistency is a factor in choosing the best all around skater, then Mao doesn't get that box checked.... if difficulty of layout is considered, she gets that box checked....

Blades of Passion said:
I would say her "inconsistency" has largely been the result of trying to do the most difficult programs ever attempted. Where would everyone else be if they tried to do a 3Axel in every program, plus a second 3Axel or a 3Flip+3Loop in every Long Program?
Click to expand...
 
My favourites are not the most celebrated. There is no such thing like the best figure skater. It is mostly a matter of taste and what touch you most.
My number 1 goes to Denise Bielmann. I chose her for her beautiful 3Lz when no other girl was trying it in competition, for her gorgeous spins including the over used now Bielmann spin. I know her mostly from youtube, but I think she should have won many other gold medals, without those "infamous" elements. I loved Sasha Cohens for all of her skating, especially when she hit the jumps.
From the new skaters I pick Julia Lipnisaya, Evgenia Medvedeva, Mao Asada. The Russian youngsters impressed me with their jumps, transitions and amazing spins (Julia). Mao is a poem. No need to say more.
Yuna, Michelle were/are great, stratospheric skaters, but not my favourites

I forgot a skater that I alway loved, though she never got a big medal, but she was a joy to watch -Lucinda Ruh
 
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It needs to be considered how consistency should be viewed. When you have a degree of inconsistency on difficult elements that nobody else in the World is attempting, but the rest of your skating is relatively consistent, then how "inconsistent" are you actually when compared to everyone else? Mao has won 3 world titles, 15 Grand Prix events, and 6 National titles in a country where it matters. That's just 1st place results. I wouldn't call this especially inconsistent. Anyone is inherently going to have some "inconsistency" when they try to push every aspect of their skating to be "best in the history of the sport" quality.

Globetrotter said:
This somewhat reminded me of the early 2000s when Irina Slutskaya was competing fiercely with Michelle Kwan. Knowing that she will never have the level of softness, presentation and refined lines as Kwan, Slutskaya repeatedly went for tough combos and difficult spin positions. How successful was she? Not often on the biggest competitions
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Hmm, Asada does have the softness and lines, though? Her all-around skating is excellent.

With Slutskaya she could have worked on other aspects: make her skating more dancey, use more transitions, be more creative with the jump and spin placements. Or perhaps she just wasn't capable of skating like this in major competition with a few more Triples and a couple jump combos in the program - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3judUdDuE4. After she beat Kwan at the 1999/2000 season GPF, the judges held her up on the second mark. CoP was actually good for her, though, it forced more detail into her programs and she was able to handle it. Except for the bad upright edge change she did in her combo spin and the ugly sideways leg spiral she added in 2006.
 
Sabrina said:
My favourites are not the most celebrated. There is no such thing like the best figure skater. It is mostly a matter of taste and what touch you most.
My number 1 goes to Denise Bielmann. I chose her for her beautiful 3Lz when no other girl was trying it in competition, for her gorgeous spins including the over used now Bielmann spin. I know her mostly from youtube, but I think she should have won many other gold medals, without those "infamous" elements. I loved Sasha Cohens for all of her skating, especially when she hit the jumps.
From the new skaters I pick Julia Lipnisaya, Evgenia Medvedeva, Mao Asada. The Russian youngsters impressed me with their jumps, transitions and amazing spins (Julia). Mao is a poem. No need to say more.
Yuna, Michelle were/are great, stratospheric skaters, but not my favourites

I forgot a skater that I alway loved, though she never got a big medal, but she was a joy to watch -Lucinda Ruh
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This doesn't answer the prompt...going off subject.
 
Sabrina said:
My favourites are not the most celebrated. There is no such thing like the best figure skater. It is mostly a matter of taste and what touch you most.
My number 1 goes to Denise Bielmann. I chose her for her beautiful 3Lz when no other girl was trying it in competition, for her gorgeous spins including the over used now Bielmann spin. I know her mostly from youtube, but I think she should have won many other gold medals, without those "infamous" elements. I loved Sasha Cohens for all of her skating, especially when she hit the jumps.
From the new skaters I pick Julia Lipnisaya, Evgenia Medvedeva, Mao Asada. The Russian youngsters impressed me with their jumps, transitions and amazing spins (Julia). Mao is a poem. No need to say more.
Yuna, Michelle were/are great, stratospheric skaters, but not my favourites

I forgot a skater that I alway loved, though she never got a big medal, but she was a joy to watch -Lucinda Ruh
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Sabrina we are sisters from a different mother. Ita with your perfecto post!

Just to clarify I think Imwas clear as to who is the best in the world currently but some misunderstood and went with best ever lady skater to date.

I thought well who cares as long as you are having fun right?

But there is no way to say best ever to date because the decades evolved the sport and then we had a huge change of what is best under CoP which is still changing and evolving. IMHO and I am first to say I ask all tech questions to the policy wonks here- because I want to enjoy the total package andCoP for me has ruined that to some extent.

So I repeat for my money Ashley Wagner is the total package of the last few years. If I had a podium it would be Caro Koster last few years culminating in the best Sp by far of any lady I recall. If a triple toe triple toe is perfectly lofty and the skater floats in and out well I'd rather see that than an earth bound triple lutz then under rotated second jump that was muscled etc.

Mao Asada has made her life hard. Her Lp from Sochi was incredible. Mao is a legend for many reasons. I have to say she is more amazing in exhibitions. She is enchanting and I do love her team mates as well. I think these Japanese Girls have great basics but also choreography is very important. The tiny Satoko is so perfect she is like a wind up doll. Amazing consistency. At times her perfection is boring but she is lovely.

I personally enjoy Gracie when not skating scared more than most ladies out there.

I love Evgenia- that face. She's so adorable. As was little Julia. I have to say the Russian attitude with the doping scandal i.e. win at all costs affects every sport. Skating hasn't had a lot of issues as far as I know but we have seen a big change from the days when Irina andMaria were pretty much it and i never really liked either as skaters but loved Irina the person- the champion.

Now we have a handful of top Russian girls with the ability to win world titles with several more in juniors. They have a great shot as CoP expert skaters to dominate the next Olympics.

Ashley may decline with age and I wonder if Mao can last. My hope is Gracie Gold goes to school or gets a life outside skating. As Kwan was taught, it's a sport not brain surgery. I think Polina Edmunds is the total package if you look at the sp that she skated last year. I really want to see a tall balletic girl with amazing lines be on the Olympic podium.

I do not understand why she is not more respected internationally. I think college may take her off trajectory and wish she defers two years. And with her mother out and a top coach in she would likely soar to the top. I hope she keeps the sp this year and wonder how Blades feels it can be better tho for me that sp last year was foot perfect.

I would love to see Philp Mills do her LP and me thinks the two statuesque USA ladies should train together. I would love to see her train with Gracie daily. I think Gracie would strive to become consistent and maybe Polina could help her calm her nerves. Look at how Hanyu and Javi push each other and learn from each other. I don't know that Frank would even take Polina if asked but Gracie needs someone at her level to be friends with and these two have great tech ability. I can see them as friends. Ashley has a good training environment. I think the other two need changes and someone to push them daily.

I do enjoy Polina when she is allowed to look like an adult. I cannot imagine Frank sending her out with that GWTW program and costume that so turned everyone off.

I think Anna P is more interesting to watch than Evgenia with the now overdone tanos -nothing and back loading jumps instead of creating a great program. Anna looks like a stunning woman out there. But I just can't say I love these programs the Russian girls do. Anyone can grab the Russian judges next year and be pushed to be the it girl. It is sad in the country that gave us the Kirov that we don't have skaters who care more about beauty than cop tricks. I almost expect a brand new girl from Eteri or?

But I don't love those programs. I don't care how cop savvy the program is. I want to see the next young Oksana Baiul for a one year wonder. I guess those days and those skaters are gone for good.
 
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Sabrina said:
My favourites are not the most celebrated. There is no such thing like the best figure skater. It is mostly a matter of taste and what touch you most.
My number 1 goes to Denise Bielmann. I chose her for her beautiful 3Lz when no other girl was trying it in competition, for her gorgeous spins including the over used now Bielmann spin. I know her mostly from youtube, but I think she should have won many other gold medals, without those "infamous" elements. I loved Sasha Cohens for all of her skating, especially when she hit the jumps.
From the new skaters I pick Julia Lipnisaya, Evgenia Medvedeva, Mao Asada. The Russian youngsters impressed me with their jumps, transitions and amazing spins (Julia). Mao is a poem. No need to say more.
Yuna, Michelle were/are great, stratospheric skaters, but not my favourites

I forgot a skater that I alway loved, though she never got a big medal, but she was a joy to watch -Lucinda Ruh
Click to expand...

Lipnitskaya:)
 
Globetrotter said:
I admire the fight and grittiness of Medvedeva but you have just described why I simply don't enjoy her skating. Part of it is her rather mediocre flow and basic skating skills. Another is that she simply skated through the music despite that her choreographer had cobbled together a pretty good program.
Click to expand...

So not to "skate through music", as you put it, you must have Ashley's facial expression? Med is the most "going with the music" skater this year.
 
Mao Asada has every quality to be the best all around. Inconsistency is the only thing that pulls her back, but 99.99% of the girls competing would die to have her inconsistency.
The next person in line for all around is Carolina Kostner. No weakness in jumps, no problem with speed, skating skills. Doesn't have good layback spins, but other spins usually get level 4 + good GOE.
The next person would be Yuna. If she has the loop, she would be above Carolina.

You just can't be best all around w/ just good skating skills, or good speed or good ice coverage. You have to be great at those things + more to be best all around.
 
koatcue said:
So not to "skate through music", as you put it, you must have Ashley's facial expression? Med is the most "going with the music" skater this year.
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No way....I'd take someone like Mariah Bell or Nicole Radiocova in the going with the music catagory. Then again I may have been rooting for the Bear last year but it was definitely in spite of disliking both of her programs. During 2014 in juniors I found Zhenya slow and labored and just didn't like her. Then in 2015 I loved her programs that shot her to the top of the Jr Rankings but then last year I found her skating to be extremely overly dramatic for my taste. Hopefully the trend continues and this season I'll love her programs again ;)
 
If we're to talk about the current field performing at their absolute best, I'd say Mao Asada. But if I were to wager who would win a major competition tomorrow, Evgenia would be a better bet for me.
 
The only problem I have with Evgenia is that her jumps look like work (I'm missing the ease) and her lines could be better, but everthing else is great.
 
koatcue said:
So not to "skate through music", as you put it, you must have Ashley's facial expression? Med is the most "going with the music" skater this year.
Click to expand...

Medvedeva's choreography in the SP forced her to skate through the music with a bunch of back-loaded jumps, that definitely doesn't help. Nor do all those tanos in the LP have much to do with the music. That's all a strictly technical attempt to gain points, at the cost of the artistry. Same with some of the footwork and spin choices. In general while watching her performances I don't sense that she is always with the music, rather she's just trying to do the choreography that she has been told to do in that spot. It's a little pasted-on. She's very good but it's not all there.
 
I think it's fair to say that Mao Asada, Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner and Satoko Miyahara are some of the most well-rounded skaters out in the field today, with my criteria being the following; technique, nerve, artistry, jumps and showmanship. They're not 100% across the board but my god do they tick each one with at least a 'very satisfactory'

As far as Medvedeva is concerned, it's very premature to say anything because we have merely seen a glimpse. She has the makings of being another good skater but only time will tell how she'll compare. She has the technique (but since she's from Tutberidze's camp that's a bit of a...shall we say, a gamble?), some kind of artistry (but still very generic Russian. Both her programs last year could have been skated by any one), she definitely has the jumps for now and I'll give her showmanship. The same goes for the rest. Radionova, Pogorilaya, Tuktamysheva....they all have what each other has. They all need to hire some North American coach or at least a non-Russian choreographer to really give them some substance and actually stick to it (Tuk...tut tut). And I give minuses for excessive Russo-chopper arms. Not cute.

I have always thought that when Alissa Csizny and Kiira Korpi were on, there were wonderful. At their peak, they both had triple-triples, programs of quality and the drive to compete. Obviously, Yu Na Kim and Carolina Kostner also.

I guess I'm still waiting for someone to really blow me away post-2010.
 
TheCzar said:
I think it's fair to say that Mao Asada, Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner and Satoko Miyahara are some of the most well-rounded skaters out in the field today, with my criteria being the following; technique, nerve, artistry, jumps and showmanship. They're not 100% across the board but my god do they tick each one with at least a 'very satisfactory'.
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Sorry for the bluntness, but you find Gracie's nerve and showmanship 'very satisfactory'? She hasn't even won an individual world or Olympic medal.
 
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