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You mean two new type of quads or one new type of quad in both programs?
I am sure he will bring loop in both programs and 4 quads in lp.. but another type of quad ? I don't think yet.
Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season
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You mean two new type of quads or one new type of quad in both programs?
I am sure he will bring loop in both programs and 4 quads in lp.. but another type of quad ? I don't think yet.
I think Yuzuru's 4Lz still has a long way to go to be competition ready. Yuzuru has 3 types of quads. He needs to skate 3 types quads LP clean before he adds a 4th type of quad.
Nathan only does 3 types of quads. He is adding two new quads because he must give up 4S due to hip injury.
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I'd say Yuzuru wants to include 4lz as well but he still needs to skate ok the 4Lo with 4S and 4T first. Yuzuru does not practice anything just for fun. We don't know if he will need 4Lz. Maybe he will need it for Olympic. But it is better to skate a good and clean performance at Olympic so time will tell if he can do it.
In fact I think 4Lz is harmful to the hip no less than 4S.
It just feels surreal that we are now talking about Yuzuru's 4Lz when so far we have yet to see him land it. I am sure that he can land it, but this is literally a jump we have yet to see him land and perform, which we have no idea about the quality and consistency, so it just feels unbelievable that a few are even talking about Yuzu including it in his program. 
4Lo is different though, I think there is already more or less a dozen footage of him landing 4Lo which we have watched, and as of his latest 4Lo footage, the quality with the transition is already more than good enough to be included in a program.
Alas, damn, so much expectation on him to land the 4Lo. It reminds me of Rika kihira last week when so many eyes were on her to land the 3a3t and she didn't manage to do so. People's expectation could be a double-edged sword. Yuzuru has not even confirmed his layout yet.
4Lo is different though, I think there is already more or less a dozen footage of him landing 4Lo which we have watched, and as of his latest 4Lo footage, the quality with the transition is already more than good enough to be included in a program.
Alas, damn, so much expectation on him to land the 4Lo. It reminds me of Rika kihira last week when so many eyes were on her to land the 3a3t and she didn't manage to do so. People's expectation could be a double-edged sword. Yuzuru has not even confirmed his layout yet.
My only wish is that he lands his planned quads in Helsinki. I fully expect rust this season, and while he will not be happy if that turns out to be the case, I hope he remains patient, knowing the end game is what matters. The 4L is there and will be landed in comp, sooner rather than later. Pacing in prep for next season is the key.
I think this is the main reason we won't see his 4lz soon in a competitive program.
Yuzu said as much last NHK (if his programs weren't proof already), he values very much transitions and steps in and out jumps. A 4lz (or a 4f since those are the two quads left, 4a aside) done without transitions or steps is gala stuff worthy, but it has no place in his programs and how his programs are built now.
4Lo had to wait for this reason, too: he has been landing it enough and with enough quality on his own since a couple of years, had he wanted to include it for its own sake, and yet it's always been gala stuff.
Abt success of landing all his planned jumps, instead, I won't be surprised if he messes up his programs a lot early on, his plan is clearly to try and peak for late winter (4cc to simulate Oly schedule, I guess and WC for obvious reasons), we can't expect him to be full form all season and assuming his programs will be as packed with transitions and choreo bits as usual to pull them off he needs to be in a good form.
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And I agree with him. There is no point doing new quads if it doesn't have the quality in execution; and it makes sense in a scoring point of view too. His 4S with +3 GOE is pretty much the BV of a 4Lz, and his 2nd half 3A with +3 GOE is pretty much the BV of a 4F. No point doing new quad jump just for the sake of doing it, score-wise; and performance-wise, doing a bad quality jump just for the "omg-he-land-a-quad-lutz" factor will not really add anything good to the program as a whole for him.
I actually keep my expectation not so high this season for him. He up his tech + he was just injured so I would not expect NHK/GPF kind of performance from him this season (though if he surprises me, I would be very thrilled). If he was to do a quad loop, I also will not expect him to land it in the first try (again, if he surprise me I would be more than happy), though I believe it will not take as long as the 4S to stabilize.
1000+ :thumbsup: to this. I hope he doesn't feel pressured to make it a 4 peat at the GPF too. While it would be nice for him to go into the Olympics as the world champion, it would also be nice for him to be as healthy as possible at the Olympics.
Even if his records are broken by others prior to the Olympics, I hope he doesn't feel rush to up his technical stuff. Because while records come and go, nothing can take away from those 4 amazing back-to-back skates at NHK and GPF.
Yeah, me too. Aside of the upgrade, he usually doesn't do well in early competitions (judging from past seasons). Though it is not so bad as well, he did not bomb his programs at AC last year. Though he zayaked at SC during SP, he didn't bomb his LP there too.
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http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028772.htm
Autamn Classic entries are out, Yuzuru is there.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209250982166569&set=gm.1770493386531793&type=3&theater
Congratulation to Yuzu for being one of Special Contribution Award winners honored by Japan Olympics Committee this year. He is the only Winter OG athlete among the other Summer Olympians. news shared by Echo Cheng in YHIFG.
Autamn Classic entries are out, Yuzuru is there.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209250982166569&set=gm.1770493386531793&type=3&theater
Congratulation to Yuzu for being one of Special Contribution Award winners honored by Japan Olympics Committee this year. He is the only Winter OG athlete among the other Summer Olympians. news shared by Echo Cheng in YHIFG.
Yeah, me too. Aside of the upgrade, he usually doesn't do well in early competitions (judging from past seasons). Though it is not so bad as well, he did not bomb his programs at AC last year. Though he zayaked at SC during SP, he didn't bomb his LP there too.
If he doesn't do well in the 1st half of the season, it's not likely he will do well in the 2nd half of the season either because the pressure he faces in the 2nd half is usually bigger than in the first half. It's a long season next season, and the risk of next season's programs is much higher. I think he would give ok performances next season.
The relationship between stress and performance is inverted U-shape. He gives good performances when he faces optimum (moderate level) pressure. He gives sub-par performances when the pressure is too big or too low. This applies to everyone. (There is no such thing as nerves of steel. If someone gives a good performance, it means the skater only faces moderate level pressure, not extremely high pressure. Some people are lucky to feel optimum/moderate level pressure at the more important competitions like WC and olympics, while others are not so lucky. Nobody performs well under extreme pressure.)
https://explorable.com/how-does-stress-affect-performance
It seems that the optimum stress for Yuzuru almost always happens at GPF. GPF is the 2nd most important competition of the season. There are usually no favorites go into GPF (except in 2015) because none of the top skaters have yet competed against each other in the GP. So the pressure on Yuzuru at GPF is actually at moderate level. Once he does well in GPF, the expectation and pressure on him becomes much bigger when he competes in the Olympics or WC. So it becomes much more difficult to perform well, especially after giving a relatively good performance in the SP. (In fact, many top skaters perform well at GPF, the first time all top skaters compete against each other, but can't perform well at WC because they become the favorites to win WC, and the pressure/expectation on them at WC goes over the optimum level.) I think the pressure at national now might be too low for yuzuru. Once Machida retired, Yuzuru doesn't have any rivals at national any more. I think now he is too relaxed at national. Before Machida retired, Japanese national was like a mini-worlds, similar to GPF. Maybe Yuzuru will be lucky to face optimum pressure at WC next year.
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Congratulations with the Award, Yuzu!:clapper:
ACI has a great list of competitors this year: Aaron, Ge, Samohin, Kerry, wow! I hope Yuzu will be there. Can't wait!:yay:
That's all nice, but frankly I think that Yuzuru's health has more to do with his performance in the 2nd part of the season than pressure.
Again, sorry, but despite the long-winded reasoning involving pressure, I can't agree with this logic. 11/12 season he peaked at Worlds. He did terribly in the first half of the 2014/15 season and fairly well at Worlds.
If he doesn't do well at the begginning of the season, he's as likely to do well in the later half as do badly - depending mostly on his health and training time. Pressure is a tertiary factor.
Yuzuru's best performance in 2011/2012 season was at GPF because he gave good performances in both sp and lp. His SP performance at 2012 WC was flawed. He was out of medal contention after the sp, so the pressure he faced in the LP was lower and therefore he was able to perform well in the LP even though he had injury at that time.
After winning gpf, olympics and WC in one season in 2013-2014 season, the pressure/expectation he faced in his GPs in 2014-2015 season were in fact much bigger (enormous) than usual. That's why skaters have a slump season after a successful season because the pressure followed by success becomes much bigger and they can't perform well under that kind of pressure even when they are healthy. (There has been almost no exception to this.) That's why peaks come in waves. A peak will be followed by a slump because the pressure/expectation increases with good performances and decreases with bad performances. In 2014-2015 season, his performances in the GPs were bad because the pressure due to success in the olympic season was too big. After his bad GP performances, the expectation/pressure was dropped, so he gave better performances in GPs and national, which raised the expectation again. He only had one week's training between NHK and GPF and he was in pain at GPF and national. He didn't have much training nor was he in good condition either. He couldn't perform well in WC due to the expectation. (The expectation at 2015 WC was in fact not too big because most people didn't expect too much from him after knowing he had surgery and was not training for a lont time.)
Under the same pressure, better training and health conditions give better performances. But under different pressure, the amount of pressure plays the bigger role. He actually gave many good performances when he was physically not in good conditions. IMO, pressure is in fact the primary factor and health is actually the secondary factor influencing his performance.
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Lesson has been learned, don't expect much lol. They said there would be Bathclin CM by 5th September and in the end there's none.
You keep forgetting "physical peaking moment", imo. No-one (using lecit methods) can be in peak form everytime, all season around.
Imo, you are putting way too much emphasis on pressure (which in my opinion Yuzuru knows how to handle better than most and - more important - learns from mistakes on how to handle it better next time), but to each, each own opinion.
Pressure has bigger impact on him than health because he is always going for the most risky programs, and he is much more talented than others, and he is not someone who is afraid of pain. If he is untalented, not many people would care if he does poorly. Because he is so talented, people are very disappointed when he performs poorly. Also because the programs are very risky, too much pressure can throw the performance off significantly.
As a top skater, injury is really not an excuse for sub-par performances. Injuries happen all the time to everyone. If a skater decides to compete, he is responsible for his performances. Non-fans will not accept injuries as excuses. I never use injuries to excuse any of his sub-par performances (except his LP at COC). It's not good to always use injuries to justify his sub-par performances. Humans cannot withstand too much pressure no matter how hard he tries. It does require luck to win the most important championships. Every skater wants to peak at the most important championships, why can't they? Only a handful can in the entire history of figure skating. Even the most experienced coaches can't help with that. They need all the factors to work in their favor at the right time, to peak.
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I very much disagree with a lot of your points, but since they are just personal opinions I don't think it's worth arguing over them. But just wanted to point out that health and physical peak time are NOT the same.
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