2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating | Page 28 | Golden Skate

2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating

I guess when Russia was represented by Petushkova, she was also getting like +5-10 poiints then...Hard to remember. She might even had multiple podiums just for being Russian in that case:)

Yeah, and what's going on in Yokohama also shows how "overscored" the Russians are. Fedichkina is getting 1.6 points less in pcs than Kaori and 1 point less than the Japanese debutant. Australian and Canadian judges give her 4.75 and 5 scores. Samodurova gets just stsq2. Well, such a big "Russian inflation" there.
 
^ no worries
we'll take our revenge in Saransk:dev2::dev2::laugh:

Kind of a strong statement not saying worse. What about "Being Gracie Gold automatically gives you about 10 extra points"? This is as rude as the quote above.
haha the Gracie Gold statememnt isnt extremely wrong :rofl2:


I'll be sad if Alisa might not get in the JGPF :cry::sad21:
she was soooo good today!!
(I may be biased tho:laugh::laugh: cause she was indeed a bit slow )
 
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Yeah, and what's going on in Yokohama also shows how "overscored" the Russians are. Fedichkina is getting 1.6 points less in pcs than Kaori and 1 point less than the Japanese debutant. Australian and Canadian judges give her 4.75 and 5 scores. Samodurova gets just stsq2. Well, such a big "Russian inflation" there.

Everyone in the top five got a level two stsq
 
Alisa Fedichkina's new SP is fantastic! :cheer: I thought she should've been ahead of Mako Yamashita (who kind of bored me) for sure. Oh well...there's always the FS!
 
imo there should be a rule now to send Eteri students to Japan :biggrin:
 
Yeah, and what's going on in Yokohama also shows how "overscored" the Russians are. Fedichkina is getting 1.6 points less in pcs than Kaori and 1 point less than the Japanese debutant. Australian and Canadian judges give her 4.75 and 5 scores. Samodurova gets just stsq2. Well, such a big "Russian inflation" there.

Maybe it's just that for once, there's only the Russian judge on the panel, and no friendly neighbors to help boost up the Russian girls' scores (LAT and KAZ in France and BUL and KAZ in Ostrava). But don't worry, next week no doubt BLR and UKR will be on the panel to help set new record scores

The funny thing is that JPN judges can be the harshest scorers of Japanese skaters when it comes to PCS, while Russian judges always give the highest PCS scores to the Russian skaters. And that is true of the JPN judges even when a medal is at stake!
 
But don't worry, next week no doubt BLR and UKR will be on the panel to help set new record scores

You just keep saying out of this world things like Ukrainian judges favoring Russia. Ukraine says every now and then they are at war with Russia, they threaten not to come to World Cup 2018, their Olympians refuse to talk to the Russian journalists, etc, etc.

I personally enjoyed Kitty's skating a lot. She was no worse than the last year when she had 65-67 in SP and yet now she loses 3 points to a bland skating of an unknown Japanese newcomer.

The composition of the panel is meaningless outside the scores the panel members give. Now that we know who is who we can speak on facts rather than on conspiracies and USSR time stereotypes. And so far the facts are that Canada and Australia gave outrageously low scores to Fedichkina.
 
The funny thing is that JPN judges can be the harshest scorers of Japanese skaters when it comes to PCS, while Russian judges always give the highest PCS scores to the Russian skaters. And that is true of the JPN judges even when a medal is at stake!

Is this based only on national events? Confidential judging only recently ended, so how would we know this?
 
Maybe it's just that for once, there's only the Russian judge on the panel, and no friendly neighbors to help boost up the Russian girls' scores (LAT and KAZ in France and BUL and KAZ in Ostrava). But don't worry, next week no doubt BLR and UKR will be on the panel to help set new record scores

The funny thing is that JPN judges can be the harshest scorers of Japanese skaters when it comes to PCS, while Russian judges always give the highest PCS scores to the Russian skaters. And that is true of the JPN judges even when a medal is at stake!

but Fedichkina was harshly punished by the CAN and AUS judge in PCS.
so maybe for USA, lets not invite UK, NZL, CAN, AUS to boost scores for the logic ?
 
Ukrainian JUDGES aren't the ones "at war" with Russia. Most of the older Ukrainian judges (the ones who get the assignments) were trained as judges under the old Soviet Union and points of view learned at a young age don't change much. I have been looking at the JGP protocols for years, and believe me, the UKR judges do support Russian skaters.


As for the Yokohama judges, taking a quick look at the protocol, here were the judges' preferences among the top 5 skaters, based on PCS scores and total GOE awarded:

PCS SCORES

#1 AUS
1 Yamashita
2 Honda
3 Samodurova
4 Sakamoto
5 Fedichkina

#2 USA
1 Samodurova / Honda
3 Sakamoto
4 Fedichkina
5 Yamashita

#3CAN
1 Honda
2 Samodurova
3 Sakamoto
4 Yamashita
5 Fedichkina

#4 JPN
1 Samodurova / Sakamoto
3 Honda
4 Yamashita
5 Fedichkina

#5 SUI
1 Samodurova
2 Fedichkina / Yamashita
4 Honda
5 Sakamoto

#6 NOR
1 Samodurova
2 Honda
3 Yamashita
4 Sakamoto
5 Fedichkina

#7 SWE
1 Yamashita
2 Sakamoto
3 Samodurova
4 Honda
5 Fedichkina

#8 RUS
1 Fedichkina
2 Sakamoto
3 Samodurova
4 Honda
5 Yamashita

#9 ITA
1 Sakamoto
2 Honda
3 Fedichkina
4 Yamashita
5 Samodurova

TOTAL GOE AWARDED

#1 AUS
1 Yamashita
2 Sakamoto
3 Honda
4 Samodurova / Fedichkina


#2 USA
1 Sakamoto
2 Fedichkina
3 Samodurova
4 Yamashita
5 Honda

#3 CAN
1 Samodurova
2 Yamashita
3 Sakamoto
4 Fedichkina
5 Honda

#4 JPN
1 Sakamoto
2 Yamashita
3 Samodurova
4 Fedichkina
5 Honda

#5 SUI
1 Yamashita
2 Sakamoto
3 Samodurova
4 Fedichkina
5 Honda

#6 NOR
1 Sakamoto / Yamashita
3 Fedichkina / Samodurova
5 Honda

#7 SWE
1 Sakamoto
2 Yamashita
3 Samodurova
4 Fedichkina
5 Honda

#8 RUS
1 Sakamoto
2 Samodurova / Fedichkina
4 Yamashita / Honda

#9 ITA
1 Sakamoto
2 Fedichkina / Yamashita
4 Samodurova
5 Honda


REMEMBER: The HIGHEST and LOWEST scores for each skater get thrown out. So there's no use fretting over a low score from a judge.
 
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How can you tell Ukranians support the Russians, if the scoring only became transparent this season?

Plus, I beg to differ. It is my belief that very few remain loyal to a single cause over the years.
 
Most of the older Ukrainian judges (the ones who get the assignments) were trained as judges under the old Soviet Union and points of view learned at a young age don't change much. I have been looking at the JGP protocols for years, and believe me, the UKR judges do support Russian skaters.

Can you actually consider it might be because they share the same artistic values and aesthetics, same taste in art, harmony and balance of proportions and shape/form. Ukrainian or not, it's something to do with Slavic culture shared not only among Russians, but across all Europe, especially Eastern Europe: countries like Poland, Bulgaria, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech, all Balkan countries, even Finland. It's not just an Eastern block (Warsaw Pact countries). Cold War times was just a tiny period for Eastern Europe. Those countries are still and always would be sharing very similar culture and their mutual civilization-forming trends. And Russia has been usually being the natural trend-setter and fashion-maker. Not just during Soviet times, but for centuries before. Those countries shared a lot of their common culture (read "artistic taste") between each other.

Russia adopted a lot from her neighbors and gave back a lot of cultural things too. FOR CENTURIES. It was a long and complex process. Perhaps it's hard to understand, but this was not like was in Asia, where neighbors hated each other for generations and generations. In Europe, despite all wars and old grudges, nations still shared and exchanged cultural things and artistic tastes across borders.

Russian tzars and tzarinas always were fascinated with some Western European cultural things, especially like ballet and opera. They successfully adopted ballet for example, and it thrived there in Moscow's Bolshoi and St. Petersburg's Mariinsky while this form of art almost was lost and decayed in Western Europe. Believe it or not, but we should thank Russians for saving ballet as an art and giving it a new spin of artistic development and bringing it back into popularity in the West. May be you should read more into it, especially history of arts, Dyagilev's ballet Russe, Russian opera composers, Russian avant grade art/fashion, Russian constructivism, futurism and suprematism art. Most modern architecture utilize principles of Russian Constructivism, read more about Mark Chagall, Kandinsky, Malevich, Rodchenko and many others. Especially the fact that most of them were half-Russian or not even ethnical Russian at all. But nominally everything they a are created considered in the world to be a part of Russian culture.

One can call it Russian culture, but it's really should be called as "Easten European" culture, influenced largely by Western culture. Russian Imperial ballet is a mixture of elegance of old French ballet (it's mostly lost now, they adopted modern Russian ballet and gave a traditional French spin to it) and power of expressiveness (almost hot tempered and passioned, but it's way very different now too) of Italian ballet with Russian buyoance, virtuosity and something they like to call "enigmatic Russian soul". Hehehe. Basically they danced French ballet in Russia since beginning of 18th century - very elegant, soft and graceful - famous "Vaganova" back or "singing hands/arms" technique comes from this, but then they saw more Italian dancers hundred years later in 19th century and they loved Italian expressiveness, boldness, poshness and brilliance of athletic forceful jumps (along with famous Italian pirouettes, fouettes, jetés, cabriolès, 540s and etc.)

Russian "jumping" school comes from here not only into the form of ballet, but into gymnastics, ballroom or folk dances, diving, synchro swimming and many other sports which involves art of choreography one way or another. Again: it was not just "Russian" per se, but the whole Eastern European things and still is. They might not liked each other at certain periods of their history and at some extent have political disagreement, but their people still respect culture of one another, because they share a lot of things in common. Russia just happen to be (and was) a headliner, because their tzars and nobels liked high-culture and invested a lot of recourses into art and cultural development for centuries. For a long time it was their dedicated internal national idea and politics of development of Russian/Slavic civilization, they were not just adopting and integrating western culture, but giving it further development and their own spin and spice.

Being a good liberal Jew boy as I am, I used to date Polish girl back in my days (my parents are Russian-born Jews, but our family moved long time ago). She said to me once: "They might don't really like some aspects of Russia in Poland now or still having some old grudges about the past, history and stuff, but even my Polish Russophobic aunt was usually admitting: we don't like Russians sometimes, but boy, how can they sing. When Polaks are getting drunk, they always want to hear some Russian singing". I laughed at first, but years later it got me thinking. What she meant was not about Russian ethnicity or Eastern block, it was more about their mutual culture that they bare together and were developing together for centuries. Including choreography, mentality and artistic taste.

So here you have it. It's not just Eastern block judges conspiracy, but also a solidarity of their cultures and tastes in aesthetics. If you grew up on hip hop and MTV, well, I'm sorry. If you go to the theaters (not movie theaters) in Eastern Europe you will see a lot of kids dragged to ballet, opera or classical music concert by their moms. They like to expose their kids to high-culture earlier, so they can recognize a difference between gymnast and ballet dancers. :D

What you are doing is probably called ethnical profiling of judges, which can be as ugly as racial profiling. Judges usually tested of their artistic tastes and sensibility to aesthetic, they can come from different contries, but they still share the same taste on proportions, harmony and perfect shape/form of choreography. This is the taste they incorporate from their childhood, because this culture surrounds them in Eastern Europe, they share it together. But for some sore losers it always have to be some kind of "judges conspiracy". A bit pathetic and kinda getting old, don't you think?
 
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Here is a little test on "Eastern European" aesthetics taste. If you are Eastern European and this can make you cry, raise your hand or just click thumbs up botton.

http://youtu.be/Dk8Bpxrs0rY

http://youtu.be/8p7dJN2UjAw

http://youtu.be/iio41rPwX1w

Ukrainian:
http://youtu.be/QNLQrTrklFg

http://youtu.be/A7JCXQysAII

Polska stronk too :) :
http://youtu.be/Y0hUHFuFic8

Bulgarian:
http://youtu.be/3Tz_K1F3q-A

Hungarian:
http://youtu.be/nLceT7f4TeI

http://youtu.be/PWPTqdT79Rs

Fins are always fun too, this almost like Slavic+Karelia rap, yo: http://youtu.be/4om1rQKPijI :D

& etc

It's a Slav thing, they share a lot in common, yet have their own very unique specifics at the same time. Their choreographic taste also very similar and was largely formed on Imperial ballet which was influenced a lot by French and Italian.
 
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How can you tell Ukranians support the Russians, if the scoring only became transparent this season?

Plus, I beg to differ. It is my belief that very few remain loyal to a single cause over the years.

The JGP has never hidden judges' identities. I have often done analysis of JGP judging and have found that judges from former SSRs tend to 'prefer' the same skaters that the Russian judge does. The one exception is the Lithuanian judge Laimute Krauziene. She has always been an independent thinker.
 
The JGP has never hidden judges' identities. I have often done analysis of JGP judging and have found that judges from former SSRs tend to 'prefer' the same skaters that the Russian judge does. The one exception is the Lithuanian judge Laimute Krauziene. She has always been an independent thinker.

I'm not sure why you get so hung up on Russian judges or any judges that prefer Russian skaters but to me judges from everywhere tend to do this and often when I look at protocols it's the American friendly judges I tend to roll my eyes at the most. I thought the JGP in Colorado last year had some of the most out of proportion judging to what I thought I saw on the ice. In fact to my eyes skaters who once represented the US tend to be the most under appreciated competitors when thinking relatively to what I saw on the ice. TBH though...just because a judge sees things differently than I do isn't anything I find to be of extraordinary interest.

Until I see Mariah Bell earning the highest PCS at US Nationals I don't think there is any reason to assume the US judges actually are judging all that well :p
 
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Here is a little test on "Eastern European" aesthetics taste. If you are Eastern European and this can make you cry, raise your hand or just click thumbs up botton.
OMG. :sad21::love:
I love you man, you made my day! So proud to be a Slav! :ghug:
 
I'm not sure why you get so hung up on Russian judges or any judges that prefer Russian skaters but to me judges from everywhere tend to do this and often when I look at protocols it's the American friendly judges I tend to roll my eyes at the most.

If an American wins it is totally legitimate, but if a Russian wins they have to have the support of all non-Russian judges for it to be acceptable. In Sochi Adelina only won 6 or 7 of the 9 so it was an outrage. Didn't you get the memo? :laugh:
 
Who are "American friendly" judges? The US doesn't "lend" judges to other countries (Russia does), so there isn't ever going to be a case of multiple US judges on a panel.
 
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