Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season | Page 194 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

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mcq said:
Honestly there is rarely any skater that is truly balletic because I doubt truly balletic posture can be attainable in skating? Their back is actually pretty arched in ballet (same can be said in latin ballroom dances) and not close to straight like most skater is? It is actually pretty tiring to maintain that posture. Actually if you ask any jazz dancer I bet they will say >90% jazz program is nothing like jazz at all.:
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I know right, some people are just using those words as if it's true but it's not. If they want some kind of straight back posture then go back to just doubles like the old days and this is not even balletic lol: http://youtu.be/eTU5Ust0lCg
And some fans don't even care that the airplane arms is so outdated. With quads and difficult combos there's no way they can arch their back all the time.
 
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mcq said:
There are several type of latin dances and actually the good ones are really good and not cheesy. In competitive latin dances, samba, cha-cha, rumba, paso doble and jive is actually grouped together but their character is very between one and the others. :biggrin:
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Maybe i don't like them because i've seen the... uh... folk version (aka drunk people dancing at weddings). Plus, the lyrics of the songs are too cheesy and sometimes way too raunchy which is the reason why i don't like music in spanish :laugh:
 
Meoima said:
I know right, some people are just using those words as if it's true but it's not. If they want some kind of straight back posture then go back to just doubles like the old days and this is not even balletic lol: http://youtu.be/eTU5Ust0lCg
And some fans don't even care that the airplane arms is so outdated. With quads and difficult combos there's no way they can arch their back all the time.
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Yeah, I know :laugh: I also noticed some criticism about toe-pointing. Yuzuru received some as well. But quite honestly, is it really possible to point your toe in those boots? The boots are fixed with blades right? and I assume the material is quite "hard". Ballet and dancing shoes are quite flexible so it is possible to have beautiful pointed toe, however is it really possible to do so with skating boots? I don't skate so I don't know to be honest. Frankly, never get this criticism about Yuzuru's line too. I think his line is BEAUTIFUL. He has issues of dropping his shoulder some time but really it is no longer visibly evident lately so :bed:

YuzusHydroblade said:
Maybe i don't like them because i've seen the... uh... folk version (aka drunk people dancing at weddings). Plus, the lyrics of the songs are too cheesy and sometimes way too raunchy which is the reason why i don't like music in spanish :laugh:
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Haha, no worries, to each their own :biggrin: Like for me I dislike miming in skating but it seems some are fond of it so... :slink:
P.S : Glad that Yuzuru has yet to fully embrace miming (for me) hahaha.
 
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mcq said:
Yeah, I know :laugh: I also noticed some criticism about toe-pointing. Yuzuru received some as well. But quite honestly, is it really possible to point your toe in those boots? The boots are fixed with blades right? and I assume the material is quite "hard". Ballet and dancing shoes are quite flexible so it is possible to have beautiful pointed toe, however is it really possible to do so with skating boots? I don't skate so I don't know to be honest. Frankly, never get this criticism about Yuzuru's line too. I think his line is BEAUTIFUL. He has issues of dropping his shoulder some time but really it is no longer visibly evident lately so :bed:
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Last year, there's AnonSkaterGuy from Fsuniverse saying the kind of boot Yuzuru is wearing (Edea Ice Fly) make it really hard to point toe. Here are some extracts of his post:
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[[[You can't point your toe in Risport RF2 Super boots. I want to say Ice Flies (Edea) are almost as impossible as the Risports.
The boots aren't designed to make you look good. They're designed to make technical elements more efficient, by putting you forwards in the boot and eliminating some of the "roll to toe" that you have to do in other boots as well as keep our foot in a more optimal position to vault into toe jumps.
..........
I cannot point my toe at all in the Risport RF2 Supers I have, or the Edea Concertos. Period. Edea has improved the Concerto by lowering the back a little and padding it, but the Ice Fly is still rather high (this is what Hanyu wears).
Edea is made by the people who used to own Risport, so it doesn't surprise me that the two share some design characteristics (how they look is irrelevant compared to how they "fit," IMO).
..........
I have Risport and Edea boots here... And there is no way you can flex those boots that way... This is why Edea added the padding to the Concerto, they were absolutely horrible until they added that.]]]]
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Yuzuru has changed his boots to Edea Piano this season, and if you read Edea's description of this new boot, it's even more stiff than Edea Ice fly (piano is 95 and ice fly is 90), how can he point his toe like ballet dancers as those fans demand? Lol
 
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Meoima said:
Last year, there's AnonSkaterGuy from Fsuniverse saying the kind of boot Yuzuru is wearing (Edea Ice Fly) make it really hard to point toe. Here are some extracts of his post:
----------------------------------------------------
[[[You can't point your toe in Risport RF2 Super boots. I want to say Ice Flies (Edea) are almost as impossible as the Risports.
The boots aren't designed to make you look good. They're designed to make technical elements more efficient, by putting you forwards in the boot and eliminating some of the "roll to toe" that you have to do in other boots as well as keep our foot in a more optimal position to vault into toe jumps.
..........
I cannot point my toe at all in the Risport RF2 Supers I have, or the Edea Concertos. Period. Edea has improved the Concerto by lowering the back a little and padding it, but the Ice Fly is still rather high (this is what Hanyu wears).
Edea is made by the people who used to own Risport, so it doesn't surprise me that the two share some design characteristics (how they look is irrelevant compared to how they "fit," IMO).
..........
I have Risport and Edea boots here... And there is no way you can flex those boots that way... This is why Edea added the padding to the Concerto, they were absolutely horrible until they added that.]]]]
-------------------------------------------------
Yuzuru has changed his boots to Edea Piano this season, and if you read Edea's description of this new boot, it's even more stiff than Edea Icefly, how can he point his toe like ballet dancers as those fans demand? Lol
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I've heard people say that skating is just ballet on ice and i'm like NOOOOOOOO. And why would you want to point your toes like ballet in skating anyway, i'd rather have my skaters moving instead of trying to dance statically on the ice :c
 
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Meoima said:
Yuzuru has changed his boots to Edea Piano this season, and if you read Edea's description of this new boot, it's even more stiff than Edea Ice fly (piano is 95 and ice fly is 90), how can he point his toe like ballet dancers as those fans demand? Lol
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A bit OOT but who do you think has the best pointed toe in FS? male or Female? Because in my opinion I saw some "effort" of pointing the toe but it is still far far far from how a ballerina would point their toe. Imagine complete straight line through your whole leg to your toe with a little curve on the midfoot to toe area (I don't know how to explain well in English). I wonder if it is actually possible in any type of skating boots to achieve that?

I guess from the one posted by the poster, the boot yuzuru picked assist him in jumps. And since his new boots seem to be stiffer, like you said, no pointing toes then XD

Btw I remember an interview with david wilson and he said that he told the skater (in this one i think it was Yuna) about pointing out toe but david said that skater told him the boots made them unable to do that. In contrast, tracy wilson in her interview with TSL said that this toe-pointing and line problems of Yuzuru is because of him relaxing his body to do his jumping passes in the second half (she does not mention boots). Well the reason could be both but I think this insight from them is interesting. :think:
 
mcq said:
A bit OOT but who do you think has the best pointed toe in FS? male or Female? Because in my opinion I saw some "effort" of pointing the toe but it is still far far far from how a ballerina would point their toe. Imagine complete straight line through your whole leg to your toe with a little curve on the midfoot to toe area (I don't know how to explain well in English). I wonder if it is actually possible in any type of skating boots to achieve that?

I guess from the one posted by the poster, the boot yuzuru picked assist him in jumps. And since his new boots seem to be stiffer, like you said, no pointing toes then XD

Btw I remember an interview with david wilson and he said that he told the skater (in this one i think it was Yuna) about pointing out toe but david said that skater told him the boots made them unable to do that. In contrast, tracy wilson in her interview with TSL said that this toe-pointing and line problems of Yuzuru is because of him relaxing his body to do his jumping passes in the second half (she does not mention boots). Well the reason could be both but I think this insight from them is interesting. :think:
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Ice dancers' boots are softer so they can somewhat point their toe actually. Boots for top ice dancers are different from boots for singles and pair skaters for sure. You can see that some ice dancers are critized for their toe, which is still too much but it's kind of legit. Ice dancers don't have to jump so their boots have lower cut and softer, the heels are higher than boots for single and pair skaters a bit so it helps them with point toe as well.

Top skaters are recommended not to use boots with high heels because it makes them harder to jump. Yuzuru wears boot covers so you will never see his heels but I have looked up some of his photos in practice and see that his heels are average, quite low. Some skaters who are too short wear boots with quite high heels though (look at Satoko and Shoma), it helps with their extensions but it's wrong to say they point their toe, more likely their boot point the toe for them.

If I remember correctly, Tracy didn't say Yuzuru couldn't point his toe, she just said that he had other things to worry (to land his jumps, get levels) so he is exhausted during his difficult programs so not enough time to care about point toe. I think she was being political correct. If it were me I would have told TSL that: "why don't you try to use his boots, jump quads and point toe so we can see how you do it?"
 
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Meoima said:
Ice dancers' boots are softer so they can somewhat point their toe actually. Boots for top ice dancers are different from boots for singles and pair skaters for sure. You can see that some ice dancers are critized for their toe, which is still too much but it's kind of legit. Ice dancers don't have to jump so their boots have lower cut and softer, the heels aee higher than boots for single and pair skaters a bit so it helps them with point toe as well.

Top skaters are recommended not to use boots with high heels because it makes them harder to jump. Yuzuru wears boot covers so you will never see his heels but I have looked up some of his photos in practice and see that his heels are average, quite low. Some skaters who are too short wear boots with quite high heels though (look at Satoko and Shoma), it helps with their extensions but it's wrong to say they point their toe, more likely their boot point the toe for them.

If I remember correctly, Tracy didn't say Yuzuru couldn't point his toe, she just said that he had other things to worry (to land his jumps, get levels) so he is exhausted during his difficult programs so not enough time to care about point toe. I think she was being political correct. If it were me I would have told TSL that: "why don't you try to use his boots, jump quads and point toe so we can see how you do it?"
Click to expand...

I remember reading Artur Gachinsky's interview when he was retiring - the one when he said Patrick defeats you beautifully while Yuzuru does it ruthlessly. And boy, he was so critical of Yuzuru's lines and toes. It sorta made me chuckle.
 
Meoima said:
If I remember correctly, Tracy didn't say Yuzuru couldn't point his toe, she just said that he had other things to worry (to land his jumps, get levels) so he is exhausted during his difficult programs so not enough time to care about point toe. I think she was being political correct. If it were me I would have told TSL that: "why don't you try to use his boots, jump quads and point toe so we can see how you do it?"
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Yes, yes. I think she said something along those lines. I remember they asked her about Yuzuru's problem with extending his line and Tracy answers with something like "He is a skater with beautiful lines" then explain about what you just wrote. :biggrin:

Fayruza said:
I remember reading Artur Gachinsky's interview when he was retiring - the one when he said Patrick defeats you beautifully while Yuzuru does it ruthlessly. And boy, he was so critical of Yuzuru's lines and toes. It sorta made me chuckle.
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Oh I haven't read this interview but from the way you make it sound, he sounds a bit pressed. :think:

Frankly, I do think Yuzu is held to a higher standard than any other skater. Things that come off on the top off my head was during his world's SP and he landed his 4T3T (I admit it was not his best but it was not bad) and most commentators was like... meh...
If it was other skaters landing that jump with the exact same quality they all will be swooning. Same thing can be said about their reaction to his score at AC, all they focus about is how it was 70 points behind his top score. But at the same time I think this is proof that he is on a class of his own.
 
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mcq said:
Oh I haven't read this interview but from the way you make it sound, he sounds a bit pressed. :think:
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I thought about posting a link here, but in the end decided not to - just too negative. :) It was as if he resented losing to Yuzuru, but didn't mind losing to Patrick, for instance.
 
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I remember the interview that Gachinski gave back then when he retired. You could feel in between the lines how much he was pissed. He loved competitions, he lived for that for a long time of his life and when he had to quit competitive sport he could not cope with the fact that there is no competitive stress there in his day to day life anymore. He was happy to be busy with shows- the more performances the better, when they had just one show per day he'd get anxious and bored. So he pointed out that Yuzu is an athlete, a warrior and does not have the lines Patrick has. But you just have to understand what was going on in his mind at that moment- he only spoke about what he saw by himself during the competitions, he did not watch Yuzu progress in PCS so to him there was no much difference. But there is, there was, Yuzu does skate much different and he understands the importance of quality in SS.
Every athlete has his own style, the main thing is to find the right balance that would allow them to win- that is what competititons are made for. That is their ultimate goal, to win. I am glad that Yuzu have found that balance. I don't think he is not an artist. I think he is. And if some find his programs pure technical- well, if that is all they would like to see...;)
 
Sorrento said:
I remember the interview that Gachinski gave back then when he retired. You could feel in between the lines how much he was pissed. He loved competitions, he lived for that for a long time of his life and when he had to quit competitive sport he could not cope with the fact that there is no competitive stress there in his day to day life anymore. He was happy to be busy with shows- the more performances the better, when they had just one show per day he'd get anxious and bored. So he pointed out that Yuzu is an athlete, a warrior and does not have the lines Patrick has. But you just have to understand what was going on in his mind at that moment- he only spoke about what he saw by himself during the competitions, he did not watch Yuzu progress in PCS so to him there was no much difference.
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These competitions (JGPF2009, JWC2010, CoR 2010, WC2012) were long ago, it seems unlikely that Arthur never saw Yuzu's skating after that, right? But he insisted in his interview that Yuzu "is no creator, he's a sportsman. He's good at skating, but he has slack arms, slack knees, toes not pointed... I've never seen him creating a picture/character on the ice. " And that was said after NHK and GPF 2015 :disapp:


There are different polls for fans in VK *russian social net* about Yuzu ("Do you like Hanyu's skating?", "Did you like Mishin's interview?" etc.) and when you look at the personal votes you see that even now Arthur is quite interested in Yuzu. I'm no psychologist but it seems like he can't let go his too early retirement and releases some frustration this way. Well, maybe in the end these feelings spur his ambitions and Arthur shall become successful сoach&choreographer.
 
Camillo said:
These competitions (JGPF2009, JWC2010, CoR 2010, WC2012) were long ago, it seems unlikely that Arthur never saw Yuzu's skating after that, right? But he insisted in his interview that Yuzu "is no creator, he's a sportsman. He's good at skating, but he has slack arms, slack knees, toes not pointed... I've never seen him creating a picture/character on the ice. " And that was said after NHK and GPF 2015 :disapp:


There are different polls for fans in VK *russian social net* about Yuzu ("Do you like Hanyu's skating?", "Did you like Mishin's interview?" etc.) and when you look at the personal votes you see that even now Arthur is quite interested in Yuzu. I'm no psychologist but it seems like he can't let go his too early retirement and releases some frustration this way. Well, maybe in the end these feelings spur his ambitions and Arthur shall become successful сoach&choreographer.
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Yes, "Hanyu is not a creator, he's just an athlete' had me rolling with laughter. It was so ridiculous that I couldn't even get angry. Being creative and creating a character/picture on ice is the matter of pointing your toes and extending arms and legs and little else...
 
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