State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[andromache]

Will the fed stop to push the same skaters at Nationals? let's be honest: both Ashley, Gracie, Mirai were disappointing this season, now every skater has to prove something, let's treat each skater at the same way and see then what happens.

Amber Glenn skated a great SP at Golden Spin and i didn't even know who she was.

I think USFS would looooove to have someone new to push at Nationals. The attention Polina has gotten domestically over the past few years hasn't translated into too much international success (4CCs excepting). Then we have a lot of girls with potential, like Amber Glenn (who I believe was sidelined with some long-term illness last year? maybe I am thinking of someone else, but anyway, she chose not to pursue sectionals/nationals) who can put out a decent program/competition every once in awhile but never sustains it over the course of a season. Like Amber. In 13/14, she had a 3rd place JGP event finish and then finished 7th at JW. Not terrible. In 14/15, 6th and 3rd on the JGP, 13th at Nationals. Then last season where she didn't even try to make it to Nationals (unsure why).

There's a reason you don't know who Amber Glenn is and it's not USFS's fault.

Anyway, with the way reputation scoring now plays a large role in determining PCS internationally, USFS can't afford to send a team of "unknowns" to Worlds. They could all skate as well as the Russian ladies and barely make it into the top ten due to a lack of reputation. Then bye-bye three spots. A newbie has to establish themselves on the GP first, like Evgenia did last year. And US ladies haven't, aside from Ashley and Gracie (not this year, but in the past). Not USFS's fault.

 

[yyyskate]

watched Gracie, Karen and Amber Golden Spin SP.
Gracie, my gut feeling is that, Frank(or her Team has no idea/method to do with her skating), just watch that opening combo... also her stsq is lackluster as well.
Karen, it seems they had a plan B, is bombed opening combo, they will do a combo start with 3S. which is kinda new for her. since her usual solo jump is loop. either her cannot land loop now for whatever reason, or that is their plan B (3S-3T?). practice repo for Karen this season, is also mixed. I don't know what to expect.
Amber seems grew taller and slimmer now. which is nice to see (cos the lines). Amber's all tech elements are very solid and she also has artistry could be a dark horse if consistent.

 

[frida80]

The skating lesson just posted this.

@SkatingLesson: Polina is not competing at Nationals @storyologist_ap


This is very upsetting because nothing has been announce by anyone. How could they know? Have the spoken with her? Or some officials about this? I hope this is wrong because I can't deal with anymore bad news today with skating.

 

[frida80]

I think USFS would looooove to have someone new to push at Nationals. The attention Polina has gotten domestically over the past few years hasn't translated into too much international success (4CCs excepting). Then we have a lot of girls with potential, like Amber Glenn (who I believe was sidelined with some long-term illness last year? maybe I am thinking of someone else, but anyway, she chose not to pursue sectionals/nationals) who can put out a decent program/competition every once in awhile but never sustains it over the course of a season. Like Amber. In 13/14, she had a 3rd place JGP event finish and then finished 7th at JW. Not terrible. In 14/15, 6th and 3rd on the JGP, 13th at Nationals. Then last season where she didn't even try to make it to Nationals (unsure why).

There's a reason you don't know who Amber Glenn is and it's not USFS's fault.

Anyway, with the way reputation scoring now plays a large role in determining PCS internationally, USFS can't afford to send a team of "unknowns" to Worlds. They could all skate as well as the Russian ladies and barely make it into the top ten due to a lack of reputation. Then bye-bye three spots. A newbie has to establish themselves on the GP first, like Evgenia did last year. And US ladies haven't, aside from Ashley and Gracie (not this year, but in the past). Not USFS's fault.

Amber was injured last season.

 

[yyyskate]

Amber wae US junior champ before. she just had many injuries, the last couple of year. She used to have a nickname "little Gracie" due to her physical similarity to Gracie.
Amber is actually technically very strong, she has very strong 3LZ-3T also unexpected great flexibility.

 

[andromache]

Amber was injured last season.

Okay. Her Wikipedia page was much more ambiguous - made it sounds like she wanted to take the time off to decide if she actually to continue or not.

And re: Polina....a bone bruise causing her to be out for a year? I'm starting to think that training is on the backburner and college is the priority, not that there's anything wrong with that, until she or team comes out and discusses what's going on.

 

[sabinfire]

Amber wae US junior champ before. she just had many injuries, the last couple of year. She used to have a nickname "little Gracie" due to her physical similarity to Gracie.
Amber is actually technically very strong, she has very strong 3LZ-3T also unexpected great flexibility.

I like Amber Glenn, she could be a star... just gotta build the reputation! Seems like these days, if you don't come out of juniors with a lot of hype, you get lost in the shuffle.

 

[frida80]

Okay. Her Wikipedia page was much more ambiguous - made it sounds like she wanted to take the time off to decide if she actually to continue or not.

And re: Polina....a bone bruise causing her to be out for a year? I'm starting to think that training is on the backburner and college is the priority, not that there's anything wrong with that, until she or team comes out and discusses what's going on.

It's why I follow them on social media. Articles are hard to find. Forum post get lost in the mix. There's a lot of fluff to sort through, but it's one of the best place for news on skaters. Here's the post where she announces it last year.

https://instagram.com/p/-NaXoISvOd/

 

[Nathan13]

Do not forget about Amber Glenn, Angela Wang and Caroline Zhang!

Absolutely...Francesca Chiera and Katie McBeath as well are all dark horses.

That would be great to believe that Nationals is the grand qualifying event that it's made out to be.

Unless Gracie voluntarily ends her season early, I've got dollars to doughnuts that Gracie makes it to Worlds even if she finishes off the podium at Nats.

Strangely, most people would rather watch a spectacular meltdown from Gracie, over a 'pretty good' showing from a skater like Courtney Hicks, for example.

I would like nothing more than to see Gracie skate lights out and shock us all and win again...a "spectacular meltdown" is the last thing I want to see, from anyone, let alone Gracie. I'm a huge fan of hers.

But honestly...If the podium were Ashley, Mariah, and Courtney, you think USFS would take one of them off the World Team, even though they each won a GP medal this season? Or if it were Ashley, Mariah and Marai, you think they would leave Mirai off the team again? I'm really just curious, because I don't see that happening. Maybe if Gracie were 4th or 5th, and she were beat by someone like Tyler Pierce or Bradie Tennell, but otherwise, I don't think it would happen.

 

[sabinfire]

But honestly...If the podium were Ashley, Mariah, and Courtney, you think USFS would take one of them off the World Team, even though they each won a GP medal this season?

There's no way that USFS is sending Courtney to Worlds over Gracie. You must have a lot of faith in how the feds work when it comes to current season results. I guess we shall see...

 

[Nathan13]

There's no way that USFS is sending Courtney to Worlds over Gracie. You must have a lot of faith in how the feds work when it comes to current season results. I guess we shall see...

So, just to clarify, lets say the results are 1. Ashley 2. Mariah 3. Courtney 4. Mirai 5. Tyler 6. Bradie 7. Karen 8. Angela 9. Gracie... which is totally possibly (albeit unfortunate), you still would say Gracie is going to Worlds?

I guess I (perhaps foolishly) just have faith that common sense would come into play, because it would be pretty unprecedented, and the ugly backlash would be enormous. I could see them sending her to 4CC, but there's so much at stake at this Worlds.

 

[shiroKJ]

So, just to clarify, lets say the results are 1. Ashley 2. Mariah 3. Courtney 4. Mirai 5. Tyler 6. Bradie 7. Karen 8. Angela 9. Gracie... which is totally possibly (albeit unfortunate), you still would say Gracie is going to Worlds?

I guess I (perhaps foolishly) just have faith that common sense would come into play, because it would be pretty unprecedented, and the ugly backlash would be enormous. I could see them sending her to 4CC, but there's so much at stake at this Worlds.

They would put the announcement on hold and send Gracie to 4CC so she can (hopefully) put out a decent enough performance so they can justify putting her on the Worlds team. They'll know it, other skaters'll know it, and she'll know it.

 

[sabinfire]

So, just to clarify, lets say the results are 1. Ashley 2. Mariah 3. Courtney 4. Mirai 5. Tyler 6. Bradie 7. Karen 8. Angela 9. Gracie... which is totally possibly (albeit unfortunate), you still would say Gracie is going to Worlds?

First of all, that would never happen... the domestic judges wouldn't place her in 9th at Nationals even if she missed half her jumps. Gracie is talented enough to deliver most of the technical elements and get the PCS scores that very few other US girls can reach.

The US ladies field is simply not deep enough for Gracie to fall that low. She hasn't even dropped that low internationally in her entire career. I need a more realistic scenario.

 

[qwerty]

When Ashley benefited from the "body of work" rule in 2014, she'd just come off a strong GP season capped with a medal at the GPF. The most recent season is taken into most serious consideration, and Gracie just doesn't have that cushion. I think if she skates at Nationals the way she's been skating this season so far, finishes 5th or worse, she's out.

 

[amc987]

1. Ashley 2. Bell 3. Nagasu 4. Hicks 5. Chen 6. Gracie

Still think Gracie goes then, @sabinfire?

I agree that the USFS will do what they can to send Gracie to Worlds. But if she does a Golden Spin short and a 2 triple program and has 2+ falls/pops in the FS at Nationals, there's a limited amount USFS can do to save her. In that scenario, if the lineup is similar to above, I think they'd be hard pressed to send Gracie to any of the Championship events.

ETA: What if Ashley places 3rd with 2 people other than Gracie on the podium? E.g., 1. Bell 2. Nagasu 3. Ashley. I don't think Gracie goes in that scenario either, even if she placed 4th/5th.

 

[Lenny318]

How much of a say does USFSA have in potentially encouraging skaters to make changes to their coaching team? Just curious I mean they've been watching the same season we have do they think that things are magically going to get better for Gracie if she keeps doing what she's been doing? I know maybe they don't want to intervene because it's Frank freaking Carroll but if they want to have any reason to send her to Worlds if her placement doesn't hold up they need to get a full picture of what's going on and what's possibly going wrong cause as mentioned previously, there's a lot at stake at Worlds this season.

 

[skylark]

Not only that, I'd like to see her performing like the Mirai of old. She used to be such a strong performer and it really does bother me that she looks like she's taking a physic's exam for the first 2/3 of her programs.

Oh Mr Rice, you made me laugh so hard in the middle of the night! That's the best description I've seen and exactly how I feel when Mirai skates.

 

[skylark]

Gracie seems to want as much competition experience as possible. It's questionable whether competing or training would be better, given that she is not in top competitive form. I don't know how her practices are going, but her jumps in the GP looked very off-axis, so it seems like focusing on that would be better than traveling to compete in a Senior B.

I can't help wondering if Gracie's fall-off in her jumps this season might be related to her losing weight quickly in the fall. Quick weight loss is linked to a decrease in muscle, and her jumps look nothing like they did last year. I may be off base; I'd like to hear a skater's perspective; and I realize that she was probably talking about only a few pounds. (I remember Tanith Belbin saying after she and Ben switched from Marina, that she'd gained a few pounds with her new coaches' encouragement, and she had a significant increase in stamina.)

Then again, we're all just speculating. Ashley has said that it took her a year to get over not making it to the Vancouver olympics. I can readily imagine Gracie switching her focus right now or just losing it, and then come roaring back for the Olympic year. But it's very hard to see the light go out of her eyes, and 8th in the SP at Golden Spin is frightful. Maybe she can use this experience to let go of what the world (including me!) thinks of her skating, and believe in doing it for herself.

 

[andromache]

I can't help wondering if Gracie's fall-off in her jumps this season might be related to her losing weight quickly in the fall. Quick weight loss is linked to a decrease in muscle, and her jumps look nothing like they did last year. I may be off base; I'd like to hear a skater's perspective; and I realize that she was probably talking about only a few pounds. (I remember Tanith Belbin saying after she and Ben switched from Marina, that she'd gained a few pounds with her new coaches' encouragement, and she had a significant increase in stamina.)

Then again, we're all just speculating. Ashley has said that it took her a year to get over not making it to the Vancouver olympics. I can readily imagine Gracie switching her focus right now or just losing it, and then come roaring back for the Olympic year. But it's very hard to see the light go out of her eyes, and 8th in the SP at Golden Spin is frightful. Maybe she can use this experience to let go of what the world (including me!) thinks of her skating, and believe in doing it for herself.

I'm not convinced that Gracie can begin to skate for herself under Frank and Lori. At her age, she might be a little too old to be happy allowing herself to be molded by them every season. Frank and Lori are great, and Lori has choreographed some great programs for Gracie, but I can't help but think of Adam Rippon's interview with Ice Talk. He liked his Bloodstream LP but there was other music he couldn't stop thinking about. So one weekend he just goes back to his choreographer and gets a new program, doesn't even tell Raf about it, and when he gets back with the new program, Raf is very happy that Adam finally got a new LP. Raf didn't tell Adam he needed a new LP - he let Adam come to that conclusion on his own, and Adam felt totally comfortable just going and getting a new LP without Raf's input. It's indepedent, confident, and it shows in the consistent performances Adam puts out.

Gracie needs to learn to take control of her skating, and trusting Frank and Lori to do everything might not be allowing her to learn to take that control. Their style might not fit a skater going through a mid-career crisis.

 

[skylark]

I'm not convinced that Gracie can begin to skate for herself under Frank and Lori. At her age, she might be a little too old to be happy allowing herself to be molded by them every season. Frank and Lori are great, and Lori has choreographed some great programs for Gracie, but I can't help but think of Adam Rippon's interview with Ice Talk. He liked his Bloodstream LP but there was other music he couldn't stop thinking about. So one weekend he just goes back to his choreographer and gets a new program, doesn't even tell Raf about it, and when he gets back with the new program, Raf is very happy that Adam finally got a new LP. Raf didn't tell Adam he needed a new LP - he let Adam come to that conclusion on his own, and Adam felt totally comfortable just going and getting a new LP without Raf's input. It's indepedent, confident, and it shows in the consistent performances Adam puts out.

Gracie needs to learn to take control of her skating, and trusting Frank and Lori to do everything might not be allowing her to learn to take that control. Their style might not fit a skater going through a mid-career crisis.

Wow, andromache, this is the best comparison and the most insightful view that I've seen on this subject. I'm subscribing 100%.

I hadn't read the Ice Talk interview. This says something very interesting about the kind of coach Raf is. Raf's methods really are meant to allow each skater to grow himself/herself into the kind of skater he/she wants to be. But it takes time, and it takes a skater who's willing to take responsibility for his own skating as well as to be able to separate his blunt talk from their own feelings.

Which brings us back to our top US lady, Ashley! I'm very happy that she decided to double down on her training rather than competing at GS. I can imagine her panic at the thought of the non-competing week of GPF, but in the end she knew what she needed most. Go Ashley!