US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[Mrs. P]

ref standing Os. Are you serious or tongue in cheek? Most people don’t go to Nats for the sport…they go for the performance and for their favorite skaters. Nathan’s standing O requires no explanation. It was magic to be there. One of the best skates for a man ever seen at nats this century and I don’t say that lightly.
Jason is a showman. A much loved showman. He has charisma and is a very nice person. To go out there with a fractured leg and maybe still a bad back and do that performance excited people.
Mr. Zhou is coming along nicely. But he does need to learn to connect to the audience. Like Mr. Rabbitt does.
My heart goes out to Gracie and especially Max, but they did not turn in performances that I would give a standing O to….I have no problem with anyone giving any skater a standing O…but for me to give Max a standing O would have been to change my personal meaning for what a standing O is.

I'm just noting that the audience connected with skaters with two distinct styles. And of course the audience aren't the judges, as you rightfully pointed out.

I appreciate the live observations, as always, Chris. :thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteChris]

I'm just noting that the audience connected with skaters with two distinct styles. And of course the audience aren't the judges, as you rightfully pointed out.

I appreciate the live observations, as always, Chris. :thumbsup:

Thank you. I know you and I differ on our opinions of games of the ball (and Puck) but I do find the demographics (and what they want) at skating events interesting.
Funny story. At KC, if you bought a bottle of water, they would take the cap off the bottle and keep it.
The Reason?
They thought we would throw full sealed bottles of water at the skaters like they do at hockey matches, possibly hitting and hurting a fan in the front row, and creating a law suit.
So what really happens is I, in the front row, am hit by a panda bear the size of a German Shepherd.... LOL!

 

[Tavi...]

That is still his personal best for SP TES. I think that has been his best senior SP... then again he did get to work on it for two years.

Happy to see some skaters at Challenge Cup... sad to not see Kaitlyn and Starr get something post season. Is Gardena Spring Trophy no longer a thing?

Hey stranger, welcome back!

It is still my favorite SP. When I said he had less tech, I just meant he wasn't doing quads in it like Hanyu does in his Prince. I'd actually love to see what he could do with it now - he's not only older but his jumps are much bigger. I bet it would be great!

ref standing Os. Are you serious or tongue in cheek? Most people don’t go to Nats for the sport…they go for the performance and for their favorite skaters. Nathan’s standing O requires no explanation. It was magic to be there. One of the best skates for a man ever seen at nats this century and I don’t say that lightly.
Jason is a showman. A much loved showman. He has charisma and is a very nice person. To go out there with a fractured leg and maybe still a bad back and do that performance excited people.
Mr. Zhou is coming along nicely. But he does need to learn to connect to the audience. Like Mr. Rabbitt does.
My heart goes out to Gracie and especially Max, but they did not turn in performances that I would give a standing O to….I have no problem with anyone giving any skater a standing O…but for me to give Max a standing O would have been to change my personal meaning for what a standing O is.

I find it so odd that your explanation for Jason's standing O is that he's a "showman." That's so totally not what this program is about.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thank you. I know you and I differ on our opinions of games of the ball (and Puck) but I do find the demographics (and what they want) at skating events interesting.
Funny story. At KC, if you bought a bottle of water, they would take the cap off the bottle and keep it.
The Reason?
They thought we would throw full sealed bottles of water at the skaters like they do at hockey matches, possibly hitting and hurting a fan in the front row, and creating a law suit.
So what really happens is I, in the front row, am hit by a panda bear the size of a German Shepherd.... LOL!

Those large bears look SO cute until the reality hits that you have to find a place to stash it. Someone came up with the bright idea to give me a HUGE bear to me at one of my baby showers. The best I could do is have it hung over my daughter's crib so it looks creepily at her at night. Sometimes she hits it cause it gets in her way.

 

[stella luna]

For the Ladies SP at Europeans this week, a bear was so large it took 2 little girls to carry it off the ice.

Those large bears look SO cute until the reality hits that you have to find a place to stash it. Someone came up with the bright idea to give me a HUGE bear to me at one of my baby showers. The best I could do is have it hung over my daughter's crib so it looks creepily at her at night. Sometimes she hits it cause it gets in her way.

 

[Mrs. P]

For the Ladies SP at Europeans this week, a bear was so large it took 2 little girls to carry it off the ice.

Anna P's bear!! That made me laugh.

Does "HUGE BEAR" fit the USFS criteria for World team selection?

 

[karne]

My heart goes out to Gracie and especially Max, but they did not turn in performances that I would give a standing O to….I have no problem with anyone giving any skater a standing O…but for me to give Max a standing O would have been to change my personal meaning for what a standing O is.

Nevertheless, I was grateful to the KC crowd, who were very kind; still in my mind is the vivid memory of Max confessing that he knew he would not win last year, because of the crowd's reaction...but the whoops and cheers when the Circle of Life rang out made me smile. I could hear the crowd encouraging him on to a big fightback. I wish it had happened.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Hey stranger, welcome back!

It is still my favorite SP. When I said he had less tech, I just meant he wasn't doing quads in it like Hanyu does in his Prince. I'd actually love to see what he could do with it now - he's not only older but his jumps are much bigger. I bet it would be great!



I find it so odd that your explanation for Jason's standing O is that he's a "showman." That's so totally not what this program is about.

The majority of people at nats arent hard core skating sports fans. The vast majority of people there like the way he connects with the crowd, his amazing flexibility, and his personality. While this particular program may not emphasize that, a skater is much more than one program to the attendees. For me, I think he always puts on a show, even though he is limited by injuries....but then I cant separate my feelings for the person from the performance. I think the shib's short dance music is terrible. But I will always give them a standing O for how well they skate and for who and what they are. Skating is about emotion...the fans feel emotion for Jason.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Nevertheless, I was grateful to the KC crowd, who were very kind; still in my mind is the vivid memory of Max confessing that he knew he would not win last year, because of the crowd's reaction...but the whoops and cheers when the Circle of Life rang out made me smile. I could hear the crowd encouraging him on to a big fightback. I wish it had happened.

Yes, the fans, and I of course, really like him and feel for him....he has charisma...the it factor....lets hope he kills it next year!

 

[CoyoteChris]

Anna P's bear!! That made me laugh.

Does "HUGE BEAR" fit the USFS criteria for World team selection?

Hey, they could weigh the toys and have a fan vote!!!! Jason's was the largest toy.....

 

[Nathan13]

Nevertheless, I was grateful to the KC crowd, who were very kind; still in my mind is the vivid memory of Max confessing that he knew he would not win last year, because of the crowd's reaction...but the whoops and cheers when the Circle of Life rang out made me smile. I could hear the crowd encouraging him on to a big fightback. I wish it had happened.

We tried also, the audience started cheering after the opening notes, which I expected, and I thought was really cool. Hopefully he sees this setback as an opportunity to grow.

 

[stella luna]

So lucky to be seeing Europeans out of some fluke free preview on cable!

Anna P's bear!! That made me laugh.

Does "HUGE BEAR" fit the USFS criteria for World team selection?

 

[Tavi...]

The majority of people at nats arent hard core skating sports fans. The vast majority of people there like the way he connects with the crowd, his amazing flexibility, and his personality. While this particular program may not emphasize that, a skater is much more than one program to the attendees. For me, I think he always puts on a show, even though he is limited by injuries....but then I cant separate my feelings for the person from the performance. I think the shib's short dance music is terrible. But I will always give them a standing O for how well they skate and for who and what they are. Skating is about emotion...the fans feel emotion for Jason.

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm curious about one other thing. You said that Nathan's performance was "magic" and one of the best skates at Nats this century. People said something similar about Jason's Riverdance at 2014 Nats. I didn't see either one live. Were you also at 2014 Nats and if so, how did the crowd's (and your) response differ?

I have nothing against Nathan - in fact, I was very impressed by what he did, but he didn't mesmerize me, and I personally felt no magic at all.

Quite honestly, a lot of the hype and endless fluff on NBC turned me off - it's like they're trying to will Nathan into being a star in order to revive interest in the sport and bring in higher ratings.

 

[Nathan13]

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm curious about one other thing. You said that Nathan's performance was "magic" and one of the best skates at Nats this century. People said something similar about Jason's Riverdance at 2014 Nats. I didn't see either one live. Were you also at 2014 Nats and if so, how did the crowd's (and your) response differ?

I have nothing against Nathan - in fact, I was very impressed by what he did, but he didn't mesmerize me, and I personally felt no magic at all.

Quite honestly, a lot of the hype and endless fluff on NBC turned me off - it's like they're trying to will Nathan into being a star in order to revive interest in the sport and bring in higher ratings.

I didn't see Jason's FS live, but I can tell you that Nathan's was quite mesmerizing in person--the audience was really in the palm of his hand. During those moments in the middle of the program you could hear a pin drop. The audience was on its feet long before his final spin. During that last footwork section it was just plain loud--I found his facial expressions really engaging, and it seemed very naturally fierce. I think that it was so anticipated that he would do four perfect quads, and when he gave us that and then some, the audience was very very appreciative.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think despite Chris' assertion that the audience isn't there for sport, but performance, I think that most people -- at a very human level- appreciate and get excited when the envelope of sport is pushed. That's why people go crazy when they see running records broken. I mean there isn't anything artsy about Usain Bolt running a 100m in 10 seconds or less, but yet the performance is dazzling!

Honestly, I do think the quads does help Nathan shine a lot more. He's not a natural performer, IMO, but I think honestly, the quads are his way to get the audience's attention. Had he done the same program with just triple jumps, it likely would have not been as impressive.

In contrast, while Jason usually doesn't have the most difficult jump content, the program and his performance of it commands people's attention.

I think there's room to appreciate both types of performance: The performance of sport and the performance that shines through sport.

If you need an example of the later, just look at the NBC Olympics post of the Shibs SD. Not a single jump, yet the video has been shared 35k times and been viewed millions of times. And FWIW, I've had friends (who are not skating fans) share both the Shibs video and Nathan's FS video.

 

[el henry]

I think despite Chris' assertion that the audience isn't there for sport, but performance, I think that most people -- at a very human level- appreciate and get excited when the envelope of sport is pushed. That's why people go crazy when they see running records broken. I mean there isn't anything artsy about Usain Bolt running a 100m in 10 seconds or less, but yet the performance is dazzling!

Honestly, I do think the quads does help Nathan shine a lot more. He's not a natural performer, IMO, but I think honestly, the quads are his way to get the audience's attention. Had he done the same program with just triple jumps, it likely would have not been as impressive.

In contrast, while Jason usually doesn't have the most difficult jump content, the program and his performance of it commands people's attention.

I think there's room to appreciate both types of performance: The performance of sport and the performance that shines through sport.

If you need an example of the later, just look at the NBC Olympics post of the Shibs SD. Not a single jump, yet the video has been shared 35k times and been viewed millions of times. And FWIW, I've had friends (who are not skating fans) share both the Shibs video and Nathan's FS video.

I really like this sentence. I have said over and over again, I appreciate what Nathan does and does well. Darn straight if I had been there he would have gotten a standing O. And since I have Jason's Riverdance LP memorized, your sentence sounds like Sandra Bezic: figure skating takes all kinds, it accepts all kinds.

But getting back to the crowd, I can't help but think there is a difference in the *type*, not sincerity, of reaction, to the different performances. I know you were in Boston in 2014, so you can correct me if I am wrong about that reaction.

With Jason in 2014 Nats, at least on the vids, you can hear the crowd reaction grow. It's a hum, a louder hum, and then a roar. He's practically getting applause for crossing the ice. And, as we all know, he got the standing O before the final spin as well (with the classic Sandra: They're standing already! Scott: They wanted to stand two minutes ago). I cannot see the crowd in the Rudy Galindo 1996 videos, but the crowd sound is the same: the hum that becomes the roar. I see that as "performance" applause. With Nathan, I did not hear the hum, hum, hum, roar, but since Nathan13 described it that way, maybe it happened, and I'm just hearing it differently.

I agree with Tavi, it would be interesting to hear from those at Boston and at KC.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well Chris was at U.S. Nationals in both 2014 and 2017, as was noskates and MFarrone, so maybe one of them can tell you for sure.

Also, FWIW, Mr. P was equally impressed with Jason AND Nathan, again for different reasons. Mr. P had grown tied of this trend of people doing quads as point grabs, but he was impressed that Nathan didn't only do five quads, but did them well. Mr. P is not anti-quad if the quads are done well.

As for Jason, he was impressed with how well Jason performed the music, though he didn't actually care for the music, which he says speaks to how well he performs.

 

[Arriba627]

I'm curious about one other thing. You said that Nathan's performance was "magic" and one of the best skates at Nats this century. People said something similar about Jason's Riverdance at 2014 Nats. I didn't see either one live. Were you also at 2014 Nats and if so, how did the crowd's (and your) response differ?

I was at both. I would have to say that for Nathan's performance, I didn't feel any magic. I would probably say I was amazed, astonished, happy to think that maybe we have someone who can compete at the highest level on the world stage, happy for Nathan (and Raf!)...Riverdance was just in a whole other realm. The audience was "in it" from the first notes, and the audience's excitement just kept building and building as the program kept building and building. By the time Jason was getting to the end of the program, the audience was having a hard time staying in its seat! What did Scott Hamilton say, "They're going to have to close this building down for repairs after this program is over, cos the audience is going to blow the roof off". And that was about it. Loud? OMG! Dang it all, I'm getting excited again just typing about it!

When I watched Riverdance for the 500th time a while ago, I noticed again that you can see in the first few rows (and it's a little hard to see beyond that) that many of the people are smiling throughout the whole program. And the applause and cheering at the end were deafening. The icing on the cake was that the marks were such good marks too...Ok, thank you for allowing me to relive that memory! :scard7:

 

[CoyoteChris]

I was at both. I would have to say that for Nathan's performance, I didn't feel any magic. I would probably say I was amazed, astonished, happy to think that maybe we have someone who can compete at the highest level on the world stage, happy for Nathan (and Raf!)...Riverdance was just in a whole other realm. The audience was "in it" from the first notes, and the audience's excitement just kept building and building as the program kept building and building. By the time Jason was getting to the end of the program, the audience was having a hard time staying in its seat! What did Scott Hamilton say, "They're going to have to close this building down for repairs after this program is over, cos the audience is going to blow the roof off". And that was about it. Loud? OMG! Dang it all, I'm getting excited again just typing about it!

When I watched Riverdance for the 500th time a while ago, I noticed again that you can see in the first few rows (and it's a little hard to see beyond that) that many of the people are smiling throughout the whole program. And the applause and cheering at the end were deafening. The icing on the cake was that the marks were such good marks too...Ok, thank you for allowing me to relive that memory! :scard7:

Riverdance for Jason is like Fix You for the Shibs....its gonna be hard to top. Maybe I can talk Rika Hongo to do a show program with Jason in duet....

 

[CoyoteChris]

I really like this sentence. I have said over and over again, I appreciate what Nathan does and does well. Darn straight if I had been there he would have gotten a standing O. And since I have Jason's Riverdance LP memorized, your sentence sounds like Sandra Bezic: figure skating takes all kinds, it accepts all kinds.

But getting back to the crowd, I can't help but think there is a difference in the *type*, not sincerity, of reaction, to the different performances. I know you were in Boston in 2014, so you can correct me if I am wrong about that reaction.

With Jason in 2014 Nats, at least on the vids, you can hear the crowd reaction grow. It's a hum, a louder hum, and then a roar. He's practically getting applause for crossing the ice. And, as we all know, he got the standing O before the final spin as well (with the classic Sandra: They're standing already! Scott: They wanted to stand two minutes ago). I cannot see the crowd in the Rudy Galindo 1996 videos, but the crowd sound is the same: the hum that becomes the roar. I see that as "performance" applause. With Nathan, I did not hear the hum, hum, hum, roar, but since Nathan13 described it that way, maybe it happened, and I'm just hearing it differently.

I agree with Tavi, it would be interesting to hear from those at Boston and at KC.

IMHO, the crowds at worlds (Boston for instance...but I have been to 3) are entirely different than the crowds at nats. Many more serious fans. Look at how many here went to Boston....and fans from around the world....
The other dynamic is that fans from different lands support skaters not of their country differently, as well as supporting their own skaters differently. The Japanese fans are of course very supportive of their skaters but
are very appreciative of many US skaters, for instance. Yes, their is room for all kinds of fans to appreciate skating in all sorts of ways....and that is a good thing. I do have to wonder at the cultural differences between
nations in what the common fan is looking for....I am looking mostly for performance art, and emotion, but I do enjoy a skater I like doing a breakthrough technical masterpiece. But then I am the most atypical US fan there is.
All I know is, "I like to watch".