2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating

[andromache]

Not speculating. She/He asked, I answered. Do I think they will remove the event? No. Lol
WADA has a bigger issue now that apparently the data in the McLaren report was reported incorrectly as they say "typos" The link is in Adelina's fan thread. That guy from the US who said all that is a tool.

Thanks for the answer - I genuinely didn't mean to spark any sort of argument. Anyway, hoping it isn't moved. Kind of a waste not to have a GP event when skating is so popular there and there are so many successful skaters.

 

[RemyRose]

Thanks for the answer

No problem.

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you, russianfan for giving me 2222nd thumb up for the post about Russian ladies. I am not religious but I sometimes see magic in numbers. Sorry for the offtopic.

 

[koatcue]

Thank you, russianfan for giving me 2222nd thumb up for the post about Russian ladies. I am not religious but I sometimes see magic in numbers. Sorry for the offtopic.

I post so seldom that I don't count them:yay:

 

[Meoima]

So will Maria Sotskova or Elena Radionova go to WC? Have they decided it yet?

 

[RemyRose]

So will Maria Sotskova or Elena Radionova go to WC? Have they decided it yet?

Russian Fed doesn't name the Worlds team until after the Russian Cup Final, the same as in previous years. It takes place next week but the deadline isn't until the beginning of March so......

 

[Manitou]

So will Maria Sotskova or Elena Radionova go to WC? Have they decided it yet?

Probably none of them is going to be a medal factor, but nevertheless I am curious too. Maria is being overrated at this moment, and I am sure she won't be able to defend her #3 the next year, so I don't see a reason to keep pushing her as much. She is just a spot filler at this moment.
Elena at the Universiade showed she is not ready right now, but at least I would give her some benefit of the doubt for the next year. Especially the Russians don't seem to have a better choice at this very minute.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Probably none of them is going to be a medal factor, but nevertheless I am curious too. Maria is being overrated at this moment, and I am sure she won't be able to defend her #3 the next year, so I don't see a reason to keep pushing her as much. She is just a spot filler at this moment.

Maria wasn't great at Euros, but losing only to Evgenia, Anna, and Caro is a very respectable result. No one else has had a strong enough season to argue for overriding the nationals placements.

 

[Manitou]

Maria wasn't great at Euros, but losing only to Evgenia, Anna, and Caro is a very respectable result.

There was not much to lose to at the Euros. She lost to everybody she could lose to and she didn't show anything promising. Plus, she lost FS to Laurine. So pretty much she lost to everybody...

 

[narcissa]

There was not much to lose to at the Euros. She lost to everybody she could lose to and she didn't show anything promising. Plus, she lost FS to Laurine. So pretty much she lost to everybody...

I wonder if this is the right way to develop artistically and technically complete skaters. Make it so that you have to backload/tano everything in order to even make it out of Nationals, and bury anyone who doesn't show potential their first season senior and put pressure on them to medal at every single competition they enter.

But I guess who cares about that as long as you rake in the medals?

 

[nikros]

So will Maria Sotskova or Elena Radionova go to WC? Have they decided it yet?

Maria was higher than Elena on Russian National. But scores of Elena on Universiade is higher than Maria's (but both less than 200: 196.91 vs 192.52). There will be one more event which can influence the decision about WC-Cup of Russia Final. I don't know if Maria or Elena are going to perform there.
Three years ago Anna Pogo was only 8th on Russian National, and didn't get a spot on Euro, but after winning of the Cup of Russia Final, she was included into Worls Championship team (and became 4th).

 

[lavoix]

Regarding the GP assignments, so it's actually possible to have at least 12 Russian girls compete at the series if they obtain the minimum scores required?

They really need to raise the finalists to at least 8 I would say. Why hasn't the ISU considered this?

 

[RemyRose]

Regarding the GP assignments, so it's actually possible to have at least 12 Russian girls compete at the series if they obtain the minimum scores required?

They really need to raise the finalists to at least 8 I would say. Why hasn't the ISU considered this?

It's possible but not all will have 2 assignments.

 

[Miller]

Regarding the GP assignments, so it's actually possible to have at least 12 Russian girls compete at the series if they obtain the minimum scores required?

They really need to raise the finalists to at least 8 I would say. Why hasn't the ISU considered this?

Theoretically you can have as many as 15, 3 with 2 slots (top 12 at worlds), plus 12 with 1 (12 others in top 24 rankings or season's best or world junior medallists moving up). This is some way off but perhaps not as far as people might think. For example there are 9 skaters (listed earlier) who look as if they're guaranteed assignments next year. However there are a further 2 juniors, Anastasiia Gubanova and Elizaveta Nugumanova who are on the season's best list and will not be seniors next year. However as they and other juniors move up (there were 10 juniors over 180 at this year's Russian Junior Nationals) you could soon end up with 12 to 15 in the various lists who are age eligible.

At this point things become a bit tricky. At 12 skaters you're not so bad, 6 with 2, and 6 with 1, but at 15 it's a bit of a joke and you would end up with 3 with 2 slots and 12 with 1 meaning that other countries' skaters with 2 slots and lower positions could end up at the GPF ahead of Russians who only had 1 slot but placed higher.

Hence as mentioned earlier it could be an idea to increase the number of skaters allowed at each GP to 4. However this would mean 4 out of 12 were Russians which I can't see too many people being happy with. However 4 out of 15 or 18 would probably be acceptable, plus we would get to see skaters (of say 190 standard) who we would not get to see any other time, as getting to the major championships for these would be extremely difficult.

Anyway let's hope the ISU are aware of this and are planning accordingly. I can't see them increasing the GP finalists any time soon (though personally would love it) as this would detract from their major championships, but 15 or 18 (would like to see this for the men as well, pairs/dance seem fine) at an individual GP would be great. Only problem would be the extra time needed - ice resurface + extra group, but hopefully this would be manageable.

 

[moriel]

I think ISU should just change the rules of how skaters are selected.
Instead of sum of 2, it should be the best of the scores? This way, skaters with only one assignment still have a reasonable chance of qualifying for GPF.

 

[hippomoomin]

How about adding more competitors to each GP event? The total of 2 spots makes sense: it's a two step selection. 1. You need to be good enough to have 2 spots; 2 whoever have the best total for the two spots go to the final. I am against sending someone to the final based on one good performance.

 

[hanca]

Theoretically you can have as many as 15, 3 with 2 slots (top 12 at worlds), plus 12 with 1 (12 others in top 24 rankings or season's best or world junior medallists moving up). This is some way off but perhaps not as far as people might think. For example there are 9 skaters (listed earlier) who look as if they're guaranteed assignments next year. However there are a further 2 juniors, Anastasiia Gubanova and Elizaveta Nugumanova who are on the season's best list and will not be seniors next year. However as they and other juniors move up (there were 10 juniors over 180 at this year's Russian Junior Nationals) you could soon end up with 12 to 15 in the various lists who are age eligible.

At this point things become a bit tricky. At 12 skaters you're not so bad, 6 with 2, and 6 with 1, but at 15 it's a bit of a joke and you would end up with 3 with 2 slots and 12 with 1 meaning that other countries' skaters with 2 slots and lower positions could end up at the GPF ahead of Russians who only had 1 slot but placed higher.

Hence as mentioned earlier it could be an idea to increase the number of skaters allowed at each GP to 4. However this would mean 4 out of 12 were Russians which I can't see too many people being happy with. However 4 out of 15 or 18 would probably be acceptable, plus we would get to see skaters (of say 190 standard) who we would not get to see any other time, as getting to the major championships for these would be extremely difficult.

Anyway let's hope the ISU are aware of this and are planning accordingly. I can't see them increasing the GP finalists any time soon (though personally would love it) as this would detract from their major championships, but 15 or 18 (would like to see this for the men as well, pairs/dance seem fine) at an individual GP would be great. Only problem would be the extra time needed - ice resurface + extra group, but hopefully this would be manageable.

This is very misleading. You are counting that theoretically a country can have maximum 18 slots. Which is true theoretically, but not in reality. The slots are not allocated according to any fixed order. It is up to the hosting federations to choose who they will invite and it is set so freely that it gives them enough 'wiggle room' to not invite certain skaters, if they don't want to. So some federations, in order to ensure that their own skaters end on podiums, are trying to avoid any strong skaters unless they really have to. They can't avoid inviting two skaters from the first twelve skaters who placed at the last worlds, but if Russian ladies are generally strong, they can avoid inviting any Russian lady. The same with withdrawals- they can choose from ten skaters, which gives them enough space to choose the ones that are unlikely to threaten the placements of their own skates. So some federations will invite only two Russian ladies, or could even one or none if they wanted. Which means that no country will evr have 18 slots. Usually it is max 15 or 16.

 

[moriel]

How about adding more competitors to each GP event? The total of 2 spots makes sense: it's a two step selection. 1. You need to be good enough to have 2 spots; 2 whoever have the best total for the two spots go to the final. I am against sending someone to the final based on one good performance.

First, you would need to add more competitors to all GPs, and all disciplines. Even if you just add to singles, thats some people. It may also involve adding extra groups and so on, which would increase costs further.
Of course, Feds wouldnt want this for free - they would probably want another host pick, rather than inviting a top skater who could beat their own (for example, will the USA fed want yet another russian lady at Skate America?)

 

[Ares]

I think ISU should just change the rules of how skaters are selected.
Instead of sum of 2, it should be the best of the scores? This way, skaters with only one assignment still have a reasonable chance of qualifying for GPF.

Panels / judges differ from event to event and clearly don't keep the same standards, so I think this would be insane. Somehow though your SB from previous season count when it comes to determining your GP assignments (which you can also get in one of Grand Prix events), I don't like this idea of qualification for GPF though. Skaters whose first GP events are the first two would be in unfavourable position. Scores tend to grow more as season progresses and it's not like it always goes with better skating together.

 

[lavoix]

Theoretically you can have as many as 15, 3 with 2 slots (top 12 at worlds), plus 12 with 1 (12 others in top 24 rankings or season's best or world junior medallists moving up). This is some way off but perhaps not as far as people might think. For example there are 9 skaters (listed earlier) who look as if they're guaranteed assignments next year. However there are a further 2 juniors, Anastasiia Gubanova and Elizaveta Nugumanova who are on the season's best list and will not be seniors next year. However as they and other juniors move up (there were 10 juniors over 180 at this year's Russian Junior Nationals) you could soon end up with 12 to 15 in the various lists who are age eligible.

At this point things become a bit tricky. At 12 skaters you're not so bad, 6 with 2, and 6 with 1, but at 15 it's a bit of a joke and you would end up with 3 with 2 slots and 12 with 1 meaning that other countries' skaters with 2 slots and lower positions could end up at the GPF ahead of Russians who only had 1 slot but placed higher.

Hence as mentioned earlier it could be an idea to increase the number of skaters allowed at each GP to 4. However this would mean 4 out of 12 were Russians which I can't see too many people being happy with. However 4 out of 15 or 18 would probably be acceptable, plus we would get to see skaters (of say 190 standard) who we would not get to see any other time, as getting to the major championships for these would be extremely difficult.

Anyway let's hope the ISU are aware of this and are planning accordingly. I can't see them increasing the GP finalists any time soon (though personally would love it) as this would detract from their major championships, but 15 or 18 (would like to see this for the men as well, pairs/dance seem fine) at an individual GP would be great. Only problem would be the extra time needed - ice resurface + extra group, but hopefully this would be manageable.

Thanks for this, much appreciated and very helpful.

It's just crazy because the Russians will be providing a huge talent pool of juniors for many seasons to come (and that's excluding the current seniors).

When is Cup of Russia?