Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Meoima]

She didn't, but I still don't think anyone would have predicted that a clean Yuna could be beaten before 2014 WOG.

Because they gave her too much of a gap with 6 triples compared to the rest of the field who could do 7 triples, thus people did not think of that.

So it is good that judges are not giving Yuzuru huge gap compared to his rivals, so Yuzuru understands he has to improve his tech constantly for Olympic. Good thing for Yuzuru is that he is already having 4 quads in LP and he is practicing even 5 quads in practice, so he is not left out of the competitive field.

 

[narcissa]

Because they gave her too much of a gap with 6 triples compared to the rest of the field who could do 7 triples, thus people did not think of that.

So it is good that judges are not giving Yuzuru huge gap compared to his rivals, so Yuzuru understands he has to improve his tech constantly for Olympic. Good thing for Yuzuru is that he is already having 4 quads in LP and he is practicing even 5 quads in practice, so he is not left out of the competitive field.

Well, I think Yuna deserved her scores. But with a lower BV, I agree that her programs were not politics-proof. Since GOE and PCS are not politics-proof.

With 4 different quads/5-quad LPs, Yuzu's program would be politics-proof.

Without the 5th quad, it really depends, I guess. I don't think politics will be strong enough to influence the result since Korea doesn't have a home favorite, but you never know how desperate they might be for an American or European to win.

 

[mcq]

In 2010, those who chose to do a "safer" layout won (Yuna and Lysacek). While in 2014, those who had more challenging layout won (Yuzu, Adelina). I actually have a feeling that for the next olympics, the one who is cleanest and have sufficient tech content will win. My reasoning is simple, first is because the complaints of skates with falls winning over cleaner skates was quite an issue from the previous quad (Yuzu's olympic/WC, Patrick's world title - don't get me wrong I completely agree with the result back then, but many people did complain). It resulted in the current system where it punish mistakes especially falls much harder than the previous system (-4 from GOE deduction + -1 from fall deduction).

Not looking at other skaters, but even for Yuzu himself, his skate at NHK with 4 quads last year generated 197 pts with 1 fall and 1 pop while his NHK/GPF record with only 3 quads could give him 216-219. When you land a perfect 4S you get 13.5 pts but if you fall even once on 4S your net point gained is only 5.5 pts (from a -5 deduction). It is worse when you received +REP deduction too. Nowadays, a good 3S will have higher points gained than a 4S fall. However, to do a more difficult tech, you have to suffer first with falls and mistakes, and that is what he needs to endure this season. Honestly, I don't mind if he add 4Lz for olympic season, he could always take it out during the olympic if it doesn't really stabilize in a short time. I know he is the type who has huge pride and doesn't want to water down his tech, but watering down your tech works really well for Yuna Kim and Shizuka Arakawa. Doing layout you are comfortable with and skate clean pays off for them.

 

[Meoima]

Without the 5th quad, it really depends, I guess. I don't think politics will be strong enough to influence the result since Korea doesn't have a home favorite, but you never know how desperate they might be for an American or European to win.

Yeah, apparently they do believe that a NA or an European winner will bring more attraction to figure skating which, sorry, I don't think it will work. Men skating has always been viewed as "not serious" compared to other sports. I doubt that they can elevate men skating in NA especially in US when macho style is still favoured and considered as the norm.

And in Europe... well, unless the top contender were a British and he is hot like eh... David Beckam, I don't see any improvement in the popularity in Europe men skating.

So let's face it, men skating can never be the face of figure skating in North America when they value macho men. With European they might not care that much about being macho, but we know how European men are...

Realistically, if the European or NA feds want to elevate figure skating in general, they need STAR LADIES, and not one, but MANY. They need many girls like Yulia Lipnitkaya, Gracie Gold... with CONSISTENCY of Medvedeva. It's the star ladies who can save figure skating in these countries.

 

[mcq]

Yeah, apparently they do believe that a NA or an European winner will bring more attraction to figure skating which, sorry, I don't think it will work. Men skating has always been viewed as "not serious" compared to other sports. I doubt that they can elevate men skating in NA especially in US when macho style is still favoured and considered as the norm.

And in Europe... well, unless the top contender were a British and he is hot like eh... David Beckam, I don't see any improvement in the popularity in Europe men skating.

So let's face it, men skating can never be the face of figure skating in North America when they value macho men. With European they might not care that much about being macho, but we know how European men are...

Realistically, if the European or NA feds want to elevate figure skating in general, they need STAR LADIES, and not one, but MANY. They need many girls like Yulia Lipnitkaya, Gracie Gold... with CONSISTENCY of Medvedeva. It's the star ladies who can save figure skating in these countries.

I never understand this obsession of making this sport popular in USA/NA. Several sports are huge elsewhere but not in NA and the athletes are doing just fine (soccer, everyone?). FS is flourishing in East Asia like Japan, Korea and China and is still popular in Russia and maybe Canada, why not just improve and capitalize on that. You can't get yourself a Michelle Kwan or a Peggy Fleming every olympic season, geez.

They had a star on Yuna and Mao last quad while nowadays they got a star in Yuzuru. I understand that they want to prep the next big star asap, but imagine putting huge burden of an entire sport into the shoulder of 1-2 person. What if s/he is injured? Why not like, you know, let the best person win because of healthy competition so (like you said) they can have multiple stars. Besides, rivalry juice up the sport. I very much enjoy Hanyu/Chan or Hanyu/Fernandez rivalry, for example.

 

[Meoima]

I never understand this obsession of making this sport popular in USA/NA. Several sports are huge elsewhere but not in NA and the athletes are doing just fine (soccer, everyone?). FS is flourishing in East Asia like Japan, Korea and China and is still popular in Russia and maybe Canada, why not just improve and capitalize on that. You can't get yourself a Michelle Kwan or a Peggy Fleming every olympic season, geez.

Apparently because English speaking nations believe that they have biggest influence over the world, so they need English speaking stars? My guess. We are chating in English after all.

They had a star on Yuna and Mao last quad while nowadays they got a star in Yuzuru. I understand that they want to prep the next big star asap, but imagine putting huge burden of an entire sport into the shoulder of 1-2 person. What if s/he is injured? Why not like, you know, let the best person win because of healthy competition so (like you said) they can have multiple stars. Besides, rivalry juice up the sport. I very much enjoy Hanyu/Chan or Hanyu/Fernandez rivalry, for example.

Well they need many stars who have both the looks, the charm, the consistency and the records. Image if Yuna, Mao, Yuzuru, Javi, Patrick... were all Americans lol.

Anyway, I highly doubt that American public care about men skating, they had Evan whose looks was TOTALLY AMERICAN EVEN TO THE ORANGE COLOR and they did not care... :roll9: so only lady stars can help elevating figure skating in NA I think.

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

Apparently because English speaking nations believe that they have biggest influence over the world, so they need English speaking stars? My guess. We are chating in English after all.


Well they need many stars who have both the looks, the charm, the consistency and the records. Image if Yuna, Mao, Yuzuru, Javi, Patrick... were all Americans lol.

Anyway, I highly doubt that American public care about men skating, they had Evan whose looks was TOTALLY AMERICAN EVEN TO THE ORANGE COLOR and they did not care... :roll9: so only lady stars can help elevating figure skating in NA I think.

But... Yuzuru speaks english... Kinda
I wonder if they can really get away with giving insane scores to someone other that Yuzuru if he does well. Maybe it's me because i'm a huge Yuzu fan and more often than not i put him in a pedestal (a bit literal if you saw my Yuzu corner lol), but i feel like he would have to have a huge meltdown or i don't know, stop skating and just lay ont he ice halfway through any of his programs to finish off the podium.
Pushing a new "star", you think it would work while we still have Yuzu? Nathan for example, i think i've said it before, i enjoy his skating but i don't feel like he's on the same level as Yuzu yet. Yuzu has a special kind of innate charm that draws people to him. Even if they tried to push someone else as better than him, people are drawn to Yuzuru not just because of his skating, and i doubt his fans are that easily influenced.
They could like, punish him harder for the mistakes but i still think it would be too obvious, and in the end, the fans speak, they would know who was the rightful champion (and could be either for Yuzuru or someone else!). I don't know if that "fairness" would be the best thing to draw people into the sport...

 

[Meoima]

But... Yuzuru speaks english... Kinda
I wonder if they can really get away with giving insane scores to someone other that Yuzuru if he does well. Maybe it's me because i'm a huge Yuzu fan and more often than not i put him in a pedestal (a bit literal if you saw my Yuzu corner lol), but i feel like he would have to have a huge meltdown or i don't know, stop skating and just lay ont he ice halfway through any of his programs to finish off the podium.
Pushing a new "star", you think it would work while we still have Yuzu? Nathan for example, i think i've said it before, i enjoy his skating but i don't feel like he's on the same level as Yuzu yet. Yuzu has a special kind of innate charm that draws people to him. Even if they tried to push someone else as better than him, people are drawn to Yuzuru not just because of his skating, and i doubt his fans are that easily influenced.
They could like, punish him harder for the mistakes but i still think it would be too obvious, and in the end, the fans speak, they would know who was the rightful champion (and could be either for Yuzuru or someone else!). I don't know if that "fairness" would be the best thing to draw people into the sport...

Whatever, I have had enough with the politics of FS. Thus I only hope that Yuzuru can skate clean or somewhat clean in the Olympic, so he can have good memories of Olympic and say bye to it.

The results might not matter that much in the end cause his fans will always cherish him. And I am sure people in Sendai will always be proud of him. So as long as he has good showings at Olympic, he can be proud of himself.

Yuzuru and we as his fans can do nothing about the politics so let it be.

 

[mcq]

Apparently because English speaking nations believe that they have biggest influence over the world, so they need English speaking stars? My guess. We are chating in English after all.


Well they need many stars who have both the looks, the charm, the consistency and the records. Image if Yuna, Mao, Yuzuru, Javi, Patrick... were all Americans lol.

Anyway, I highly doubt that American public care about men skating, they had Evan whose looks was TOTALLY AMERICAN EVEN TO THE ORANGE COLOR and they did not care... :roll9: so only lady stars can help elevating figure skating in NA I think.

I don't know about Evan's fame, but he was on dancing with the stars yet I doubt his awareness level is high (Almost like Meryl and Charlie). Still, I am guessing if you ask non-FS fans they will only know Michelle Kwan. I would think Brian Boitano is quite famous and FS was huge then there but well it was the 80s. I think this is because some people still have that prejudice over men's FS Which is quite a shame. FS is a winter sport to begin with, so countries who don't have 4-season likely will care very little about it. But surprisingly, I know Yuzu has quite a number of fans from South East Asia and South America? Which is refreshing because they are mostly tropical countries

 

[Meoima]

I don't know about Evan's fame, but he was on dancing with the stars yet I doubt his awareness level is high (Almost like Meryl and Charlie). Still, I am guessing if you ask non-FS fans they will only know Michelle Kwan. I would think Brian Boitano is quite famous and FS was huge then there but well it was the 80s. I think this is because some people still have that prejudice over men's FS Which is quite a shame. FS is a winter sport to begin with, so countries who don't have 4-season likely will care very little about it.

I am sure Meryl is >>> more famous and Evan. Cause she is a pretty lady. This is the pop cultrue afer all. I have noticed many people like Meryl (both men and women), and of couse she is so nice with great voice and unique look. I'd say if Meryl were a single skater who won OGM, her fame would be much more than this.
Brian Boitano was handsome and of course it was 80s. And the rivaly with Brian Orser helped boosting it as well.

My verdict is that, NA need strong, charming and consistent ladies to help the skating popularity. Now if only Russian can share to NA half of their ladies.

But surprisingly, I know Yuzu has quite a number of fans from South East Asia and South America? Which is refreshing because they are mostly tropical countries

Many of them like him that anime and his face :disapp: I am not sure I am happy with many of their behaviors though.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

She didn't, but I still don't think anyone would have predicted that a clean Yuna could be beaten before 2014 WOG.

Why not? Yuna was scoring so much higher than the others because she delivered. We had never seen what a completely clean Mao or Caro could have gotten - and scores sky-rocket for completely clean vs small mistakes. I thought Yuna was the favorite because she was the most likely to skate great, in case somebody else delivered, IMO, all bets were off.

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

I'm finally scanning some of the photos of the magazine i ordered...
I want the secret for these lips
Pardon the speck of dirt in the right photo haha. I love the Yuzu on the left:luv17:


Also, i wanted Yuzu themed nails for this week. So i did Hana ni nare

 

[Amarante]

Great post

 

[sallycinnamon]

I'm finally scanning some of the photos of the magazine i ordered...
I want the secret for these lips
Pardon the speck of dirt in the right photo haha. I love the Yuzu on the left:luv17:


Also, i wanted Yuzu themed nails for this week. So i did Hana ni nare

Gorgeous pictures, thank you for posting them.

 

[NordEsque]

Really nice photos :agree:

I was just wondering, given that Yuzuru is so good at Loop jumps - I've been learning from the ita commentators , how come he doesn't end any combinations with them? Especially now that he has the 4Loop and therefore can perform 3Loop in combo without losing a jump. I think I've seen him do such combinations at gala practices or am I wrong? :scratch3: Is it just the case that it wouldn't help his BV?

 

[narcissa]

Why not? Yuna was scoring so much higher than the others because she delivered. We had never seen what a completely clean Mao or Caro could have gotten - and scores sky-rocket for completely clean vs small mistakes. I thought Yuna was the favorite because she was the most likely to skate great, in case somebody else delivered, IMO, all bets were off.

Well people have certainly skated clean before Yuna, especially if you look at all skaters with 7 triples other than Caro and Mao. Mao has been eye-clean yet never got anywhere near Yuna's FS scores (idk what would've happened if she had been totally clean though). And I don't think anyone would've been that surprised had Caro or Mao been clean and beat Yuna. But they were clean (okay, Mao only in the FS and had some > but she always does)...and didn't beat Yuna.

Plus, your PCS usually doesn't sky-rocket on your first-ever clean competition. Not to mention that it wasn't a clean performance.

 

[Yatagarasu]

That's what they said about Yuna after 2013 Worlds, I'm guessing.

I don't much care who said what to be honest. I care about math. If Yuzuru is clean, with the layouts he has for his two current programs, he is going to prevail this season without a question.What happens next season, we'll see but both sallycinnamon and I were talking about this one.

There are a lot of variables for the Olympics, some out of his control, some within his control, and they will not be known for a good while. There is only one certainty for next season and the Olympics. To give himself the best chance he will have to be damn near perfect, with whatever layout he chooses, for that best shot. That way he has no regrets, which is what counts, and then, let the dice fall. Even politicking cannot go too far and I think everyone knows this by now.

 

[mcq]

Really nice photos :agree:

I was just wondering, given that Yuzuru is so good at Loop jumps - I've been learning from the ita commentators , how come he doesn't end any combinations with them? Especially now that he has the 4Loop and therefore can perform 3Loop in combo without losing a jump. I think I've seen him do such combinations at gala practices or am I wrong? :scratch3: Is it just the case that it wouldn't help his BV?

Have yet to see him land -3Lo combo well, the one he did at gala practice is a -3T3Lo combo, which unlikely will happen in competition because it is not beneficial BV-wise.

Actually doing a 3Lo combo is really beneficial for your BV. For example, Yuzuru's current FS layout has 103.3-ish BV; but if he replaces the 2T with a 3Lo combo (e.g 4Lo 4S 3F // 4S3T 4T 3Lz3Lo 3Alo3S 3A), he would have had 107-ish BV, just 1 point behind Nathan Chen's 5-quad LP even with just 4 quad (and without the 4Lz).
My guess of why he did not do it is because he can't do it well. The attempts I have seen from him are not well-landed and many are underrotated. Also I heard that doing a -Lo combo immediately after a jump is harder than doing a jump-toeloop-loop combo. Regardless, I don't think it is impossible though. Alina Zagitova did 3Lz3Lo3Lo and 3Lz3Lo3Lo3Lo in practice. I am sure if Yuzu practices it, he can do it. Maybe he just doesn't want to invest the time on a -Lo combo and prefer to invest it on other jumps (Like his 4Lo or even 4Lz).

Well people have certainly skated clean before Yuna, especially if you look at all skaters with 7 triples other than Caro and Mao. Mao has been eye-clean yet never got anywhere near Yuna's FS scores (idk what would've happened if she had been totally clean though). And I don't think anyone would've been that surprised had Caro or Mao been clean and beat Yuna. But they were clean (okay, Mao only in the FS and had some > but she always does)...and didn't beat Yuna..

URs make you lose point much more than a hands down or a stepout. Because not only that they will give you -2/-3 GOE, but they also reduce your BV. Skates might look clean to the naked eye, but reviews on rotation could make you lose so much point. Not to mention edge call. I personally would not call skates with URs, edge call or -GOE a clean skate, to be honest. For these reasons, Mao (and Caro) almost never skated "clean" in their life. Also, during Sochi quad, I rarely see someone other than her to skate clean. It is almost like how the situation is now, It is very rare where you can see all top skaters skate clean in the same competition. GPF '15 Free Skate for Men and 2016 world for ladies are recent events where I think multiple top skaters skate clean.

Also, did people even see Medvedeva? She can stepout or fall and could still beat a clean Pogo or a clean Satoko. And it is not like she has superior tech content or BV difference of more than 2-3 points than the others (She did not even do 3Lz on her SP). She received high GOE and she backload, so her TES is high and her PCS climb afterwards. This is pretty much Yuzuru's approach to CoP. There are many ways to maximize your TES without having to do a billion quads. There is backloading, maximizing GOE etc. He already received 120 TES with just 3 quads (Nathan's 5 quad LP in National is 121 TES). If he skates well with his current layout, he will score much bigger. And regardless of all these, his BV is still the 3rd highest among men.

 

[chiraya]

Just curious, any of you guys have watched Hope&Legacy with the original music? Because i just did and i am crying. I thought i couldn't be more impressed or moved by Yuzuru skating but i was wrong.

what's the difference with the music from the competition?

 

[Winnie_20]

what's the difference with the music from the competition?

Been wondering about this, too. Possibly "View of Silence" or "Asian Dream Song" without editing and/or mixing the two songs into a new song (which to me still sounds very awkward). ?