US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[yuzushenko]

why are people debating jason brown being on the team? i think it's obvious he can get a top 8 finish, nathan will probably get 1st or 2nd... the men's 3 olympic spots are not something to worry about this at the extent of 43 pages... chill out, everybody

the ladies on the other hand...

pairs are pretty much out of the running for 3 spots

i trust ashley to be a leader and work hard to get on the podium to help us earn 3 spots, it will be hard, and she may get just top 5, but at the end of the day i trust her to fight and do her very best to claw her way up

as for mariah and karen...well we all saw how karen flunked and pretty much just blamed it on boot issues again

she was sick with the flu about a week ago though, not sure why she didn't withdraw from 4CC if she was ill though. (it was on her snapchat and instagram, she was even in the doctor's office and everything)

it's her own fault for not withdrawing because now she has bad media surrounding her w/ people wanting her off the team. she's young, she'll learn. would have been better to just stay quiet.

im not too worried about mariah, i dont think she has any pressure from anyone right now...she's avoided any media clout at 4CC (didn't medal, but didn't bomb either). as long as she doesn't get it in her head that she has to score above a certain spot to earn us 3 olympic spots, i dont think she'll do too badly. i dont know if she understands the severity of olympic spots though. she's never experienced that feeling of not making the team because there weren't enough spots. gracie is out so she might not find her that big of a threat if she's optimistic she can get that 2nd spot (in case there were only 2 olympic spots).
anyways, not too worried about her, she doesn't really seem like the type of person to take things too seriously and get all sappy on social media with excuses and what not. just go out and do your job, mariah. she's solidly trained, has great programs, knows how to perform, great skating skills/interpretation/transitions/choreography. just has to go out and do it.

 

[el henry]

Not me. Reporters? People on the Internet? Screw 'em.

Let her be real, honest and emotional to her actual friends, family and acquaintances. I never feel like a celebrity owes me anything, certainly not an explanation for a disappointing performance.

ITA, whenever I see an athlete who might be interpreted as whining or blockheaded (and I am *not* expressing an opinion on Karen, just saying in general), I think, didn't you get the memo on canned quotes? I didn't skate it the way I've trained it, I'm looking forward to improving and doing my best and (for Americans) God bless the US of A.

One of the best parts of the Charlie White interview on his Twitter activitism, IMHO, was where he said, literally, I'm sorry I was such a bad interview in the past, I know I said the same thing in 90% of my interviews, but I was competing, and concentrating on competing, and I wasn't going to say anything else.

And look how that turned out for Charlie:agree:

 

[bekalc]

I appreciate honesty rather than Miss America (Kwan)answers. Be real. Even ice queens show emotion and humanism.

Emotions are one thing. Excuses are another. As I said earlier you chose to compete than you have to take responsibility.

Seems to me Karen came into Four Continents with a ready made excuse if she did badly.

Once again I am not saying the problem is not real but if it's going to affect your performance don't skate.

I found Kwan's responses to be a bit meh and I like some personality in skaters.

BUT Kwans refusal to make excuses for her skates is why she was a five time world champion. If she put herself out there she was going to take responsibility. Period.

 

[Mathman]

...as for mariah and karen...well we all saw how karen flunked and pretty much just blamed it on boot issues again

she was sick with the flu about a week ago though, not sure why she didn't withdraw from 4CC if she was ill though. (it was on her snapchat and instagram, she was even in the doctor's office and everything)

it's her own fault for not withdrawing...

That's my point in a nutshell. Why set yourself up for criticism and abuse? Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. If you must post to Instagram or Facebook, post pictures of your cat acting cute and funny. :yes:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I follow Karen on Instagram. I can confirm that one week before she left for Korea she visited her boot manufacturer and posted on her "your story" thing that vanishes in 24 hours. I was pretty concerned because you only see them if your having problems with your boots.

Personally I don't think it's just the boot. She's complain that last year she as in excruciating pain while skating because her ankle fracture had made if difficult to fit her feet normally in boots. Before anything else, she needs to see a doctor to see why she is in pain.

If she says has boot problems, I believe her. I'm sure a lot of skaters have them, even though we only hear about it when prominent skaters have these problems. I don't have any issue with her bringing it up, although it is somewhat silly to use that as an excuse for the performance when this event was much more typical of how she skates than her nationals performance.

 

[princessalica]

It would been better for Karen to withdraw than skate poorly and even more so at worlds. Mariah is solid but not imo a medal contender. I hope Karen gets the issues resolved and can skate well, but if she can't step aside. It will be better for her reputation to withdraw and let someone else skate than to skate injured/or boot issues and bomb. Clearly she has the skills to do the job, but she has to be healthy and to have her issues addressed. Mirai I think would skate solidly, and by then Gracie if she was called will have had two months of training in Michigan to get her issues fixed, so I want Karen to be well but if she isn't step aside and let someone else help everyone out. There would a lot of hate directed at her if she skated like racheal flat at worlds injured or when Alissa Czisny was injured(even though she claims she didn't realize it).

 

[bobbob]

SEND Mirai ASAP! She at least has the potential to notch a top 8 finish if she goes clean, and secure three spots. Her score at FC was very good, and would certainly have held up at Worlds. She beat Karen by almost 30 points and 9 spots, and Mariah by almost 20 points and 3 spots. I mean seriously...she obviously has way more scoring potential than the others.

Any other country making the decision of the top three (between the US skaters) would easily send Mirai...this is why US ladies had constantly gotten so few spots...terrible decision making. This will reduce the pressure on Ashley and pretty much give the US a 50/50 chance for three spots versus no chance at all. We want as many women as possible for the Olympics!

 

[NanaPat]

Underhill/Martini were favored for a medal at the 1984 Olympics. She fell and took him out too, and they finished seventh. It was only after the Olympics that they realized that the problem was Barb's boots: she went back to her old pair and won gold at worlds. I remember Paul talking about it in an interview, but that interview took place after the win (it may have been years later). ETA: I just checked, and 4 of the six teams who beat U/M at the olympics also skated at worlds that year. So it wasn't post-olympic retirements that made the difference in their placement.

Kevin Reynolds is well known for the boot problems that plagued him for years. Interestingly, he was also dealing with a hip injury at the same time. After hip surgery, his boot problems magically disappeared. I believe he said that his feet got a little larger after the break from wearing skates. I wonder if he was breaking down his boots/having foot issues because he was compensating for the hip injury.

 

[chuckm]

There's no use clamoring for Mirai to go to Worlds, because she can't go unless Karen withdraws. IMO there is no way that Karen is going to withdraw---this may be her one and only chance of going to Worlds and she will try to make the most of it.

 

[Heleng]

There's also a matter of compete for the placement or for the win. IMHO Karen at her best is very competitive internationally. Element to element. Jumps for jumps, spins for spins, spirals for spirals, SS to SS, am I right? She does need a better long program, and more experienced team to help her get there.

I agree. I think Karen is the complete package in technical and artistic talent and would place quite highly at Worlds if she skates like she did at Nationals.

 

[brightphoton]

Did Karen or Mariah give an explanation for their showings? Injury? Jet lag? Nerves for first big competition?

 

[chuckm]

In terms of PCS, both Mariah and Karen have the potential to outscore Mirai by quite a bit as long as they land their jumps. They are both far better natural 'performers' than Mirai, who reserves her concentration for the technical elements.

 

[narcissa]

Did Karen or Mariah give an explanation for their showings? Injury? Jet lag? Nerves for first big competition?

Didn't Karen have the flu a couple weeks ago?

In terms of PCS, both Mariah and Karen have the potential to outscore Mirai by quite a bit as long as they land their jumps. They are both far better natural 'performers' than Mirai, who reserves her concentration for the technical elements.

I agree. Judges will be kind to them if they skate clean. More Mariah than Karen, though, IMO, just because: underrotations? Mirai skated well and scored well, but I guess her "ceiling" is probably a bit lower. The variances for all three are really high.

 

[bobbob]

I agree. Judges will be kind to them if they skate clean. More Mariah than Karen, though, IMO, just because: underrotations? Mirai skated well and scored well, but I guess her "ceiling" is probably a bit lower. The variances for all three are really high.

Mariah, yes, she probably has a higher ceiling than Mirai. But Karen? Outside of Nationals judges, I have seen nothing to indicate that.

 

[narcissa]

Mariah, yes, she probably has a higher ceiling than Mirai. But Karen? Outside of Nationals judges, I have seen nothing to indicate that.

Yeah, that's why I said more Mariah than Karen, because I have absolutely no idea how Karen would place being the US #1 and if she was clean. But she was relatively clean at NHK and didn't move up the roster at all. I think her underrotations also have a lot to do with it.

 

[karne]

Did Karen or Mariah give an explanation for their showings? Injury? Jet lag? Nerves for first big competition?

Would you accept it if they did?

 

[Heleng]

That's my take. :agree:

What it comes down to is that some people aren't satisfied with the progress Jason is making on his quads or his injury recovery. But he's not accountable to Golden Skate posters. He's accountable to the people who chose him to be on the Worlds team, i.e. USFS selection committee.

Also really the conversation seems comes down to how much you believe how much people's technical ability plays into one's career. YMMV, but my take is that the most inspiriting athletic moments happen when athletes push against and challenge the limit of what people -- or even themselves -- have put on them.

Totally agree!:agree::agree::agree:

 

[brightphoton]

Would you accept it if they did?

If it were something external, like a cold or jet lag or excitement for their first 4CC, I could feel a bit better and think they could do better at Worlds.

Or they can offer the standard response, "at least I got through the program, I is proud and I is learning." They're not accountable to me. hwell:

 

[Heleng]

Chuckm is a known Mirai hater.

Getting caught up w some of the recent threads and posts for 4cc, and I can see why you say that. Wow.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If it were something external, like a cold or jet lag or excitement for their first 4CC, I could feel a bit better and think they could do better at Worlds.

I figured Karen and Mariah are at 4CC for experience and looking to peak at worlds, whereas Mirai was looking to peak here.