It depends on the judging panel. But European judges usually make up about half of the judging panel in competitions everywhere. So the PCS at WC probably won't change too much, especially now Nathan has the momentum. Javier will be more favored though since worlds will be held in Europe.
Nathan Chen
- Thread starter matmuh
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It depends on the judging panel. But European judges usually make up about half of the judging panel in competitions everywhere. So the PCS at WC probably won't change too much, especially now Nathan has the momentum. Javier will be more favored though since worlds will be held in Europe.
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- Apr 4, 2016
I got into a discussion about Nathanon the Yuzu fan fear that was a good discussion, but do to it wandering more and more away from being about Yuzu I decided to contine on some points here.
Do you think there is potential for Nathan to stop front loading his programs? I personally think based on the way he came back and mastered his tech this year, I see no reason why he couldn't potentially balance his programs tech more as well as adding in more artistic touches. Thoughts.
Do you think there is potential for Nathan to stop front loading his programs? I personally think based on the way he came back and mastered his tech this year, I see no reason why he couldn't potentially balance his programs tech more as well as adding in more artistic touches. Thoughts.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2016
I think he could potentially move a quad to the second half. But beyond that, I don't know. His consistency is so high because he front loads, I don't think he could/would change the layout this year seeing as he wouldn't want to risk it at Worlds, but next year definitely.
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- Apr 4, 2016
I am more talking about how he could change things to be even more complicated next year.
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- Nov 12, 2012
I definitely think he's capable of backloading the program more as he does the quad that's most difficult for him more than halfway through the program. I'm sure that's something they'll be looking at for next year, particularly now that he has gotten all of these jumps pretty consistent.
I've been a Nathan Fan ever since 2010, and I eagerly watched his first Junior Grand Prix appearance back in the 2012 season, which he got huge scores on a backloaded program (2/6) with a triple axel in the first half. The interesting thing was that for his first season, somehow he always seemed to draw last in skating, so I think he is very used to the challenges of skating last.
So, when he was only doing triples, he would use backloading to maximize his points. Now that he has a greater technical arsenal, it hasn't been as necessary, but I'm sure that this is only the first step to stabilize the jumps, and once he skates it once clean, he's going to start making it more difficult. You can see that even though he skated clean at US Nationals this year, he wasn't content to keep his layout the same, he started adding more triple axels. I don't think he will be like Yuna, who got a layout that she was very comfortable with and kept it the same for years and years.
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- Apr 4, 2016
See that is how I have felt about him. I don't see him frontloading forever. He's the kind of skater who keeps pushing for more and more and I wouldn't be shocked if he not only came out next year with better artistic content but also more jumps in the second half. He's made so many strides between last season and this season with an injury in between, what will be be like with the whole off season to train?
His current layout is 4/4. So he is not exactly front-loading. 5/3 or 6/2 is front loading. Most guys do 3/5. That's more back loading. I don't think he needs to change to 3/5 next season. He can repeat choose to repeat 4lz and 4t instead of 4t and 3a next season.
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- Nov 22, 2016
Ohh, then next year he could still probably move a quad to the second half. Two, if he wants to risk it. Beyond that, I think he may up the choreo in between jumps. I'm pretty sure he wants to push himself more on the artistic front. I wonder who's gonna choreograph his program next season, Marina?
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- Apr 4, 2016
I would bet on Marina.
Big 2nd half jumps from the top athletes (as of 4CCs/Europeans):
Yuzuru: 2 quad toes & two triple axels (popped quad sal)
Jin: 2 quad toes & two triple axels
Nathan: Quad sal & two triple axels
Shoma: Quad toe & two triple axels
Fernandez: Quad sal & triple axel
Nguyen: Quad sal & triple axel
Reynolds: Quad toe & triple axel
Chan: Quad toe & triple axel
Kvitelashvili: Quad toe
Kovtun: 2 triple axels
Bychenko: 2 triple axels
(This whole list is insane).
Yuzuru: 2 quad toes & two triple axels (popped quad sal)
Jin: 2 quad toes & two triple axels
Nathan: Quad sal & two triple axels
Shoma: Quad toe & two triple axels
Fernandez: Quad sal & triple axel
Nguyen: Quad sal & triple axel
Reynolds: Quad toe & triple axel
Chan: Quad toe & triple axel
Kvitelashvili: Quad toe
Kovtun: 2 triple axels
Bychenko: 2 triple axels
(This whole list is insane).
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On paper Nathan's FS is front loaded but since his worst jumps are 3A and 4S you could argue it's actually back loaded. It's almost guaranteed he will add a 2nd 4Lz next year while removing one 3A, which is scary because that would actually be easier for him!
He is doing about the same number of quads & 3A in the 2nd half as the other top skaters. The only difference is that he does four hard jumps in the 1st half, while most other top skaters do 3 quad& 3A in the 1st half. So his FS isn't that much more front loaded.
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- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
It just seems frontloaded I guess because he four quads in a row is something no one else is doing. Yeah but with the 4CC layout it's pretty crazy that he added another 3A.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
This is just for fun (and my love of excel, I guess) but I did something similar for Yuzu so I thought I'd do it for all the other top men too.
Here's Nathan's fantasy protocol, that takes into account the maximum GOE he has gotten for each element this season, separately from the SP and FS, as well as maximum PCS, in order to calculate a possible total score. I have only used values from international competitions (GP series and 4CC) from this season, since they're the ones that count for personal bests. I'm not using Nationals, though since he did better there than at 4CC, one might use those scores as indicative of his potential totals. However, for the purpose of this fantasy protocol, I've only taken into account international competitions to avoid 'national inflation' scores.
Notes: I only used values from each set of performances, so the max GOE from the 4Lz-3T in the SP is taken only from the values of that combo in the SP (and not the max GOE he has gotten from this combination in general, which was in his FS). I have done this for all the other top men I've been working on.
Since he hasn't actually done the proposed 3A-1Lo-3F yet, I used 0 GOE for it.
If he goes clean in the FS, his PCS will quite probably rise as well, but here I used only the max PCS he's gotten internationally, which were at 4CC. You can add up the Nationals PCS, for example, to match up more with what a clean Nathan might possibly get.
Nathan has the highest BV of everyone, including Boyang, and he can still raise it quite comfortably by either replacing a 4T with another 4Lz or 4F or, you know, add one of those for 6 quads total and take out a 3A. It hurts my mind to think of that. His margin in BV, at that point, will be larger than any margin in PCS the other top guys might have, so in the end, it's all up to those GOEs (and landing stuff).
Here's Nathan's fantasy protocol, that takes into account the maximum GOE he has gotten for each element this season, separately from the SP and FS, as well as maximum PCS, in order to calculate a possible total score. I have only used values from international competitions (GP series and 4CC) from this season, since they're the ones that count for personal bests. I'm not using Nationals, though since he did better there than at 4CC, one might use those scores as indicative of his potential totals. However, for the purpose of this fantasy protocol, I've only taken into account international competitions to avoid 'national inflation' scores.
Notes: I only used values from each set of performances, so the max GOE from the 4Lz-3T in the SP is taken only from the values of that combo in the SP (and not the max GOE he has gotten from this combination in general, which was in his FS). I have done this for all the other top men I've been working on.
Since he hasn't actually done the proposed 3A-1Lo-3F yet, I used 0 GOE for it.
If he goes clean in the FS, his PCS will quite probably rise as well, but here I used only the max PCS he's gotten internationally, which were at 4CC. You can add up the Nationals PCS, for example, to match up more with what a clean Nathan might possibly get.
Nathan has the highest BV of everyone, including Boyang, and he can still raise it quite comfortably by either replacing a 4T with another 4Lz or 4F or, you know, add one of those for 6 quads total and take out a 3A. It hurts my mind to think of that. His margin in BV, at that point, will be larger than any margin in PCS the other top guys might have, so in the end, it's all up to those GOEs (and landing stuff).
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In part, but I think it feels frontloaded because all three spins are after all the jumps. I like the footwork sequence after the jumps. The fact that he can show all that energy & fully perform at that stage of the program really impresses me. But in general, I prefer to see the spins more scattered throughout a long program. Two at the end is fairly common, but I don't think you generally see three.
Boy, Nathan is popping up everywhere! Here he is being included in a TIME's piece on the next generation's leaders.
http://time.com/collection-post/4684920/nathan-chen-next-generation-leaders/
They called him the "Ice Prince". :agree:
http://time.com/collection-post/4684920/nathan-chen-next-generation-leaders/
They called him the "Ice Prince". :agree:
I think the layout feels frontloaded because all the spins & footwork happen after the jumps. On paper, the layout isn't much more front-loaded than other top skaters' layouts. Right now, landing jumps is the priority. I don't think he will change the layout that negatively affects his consistency.
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- Feb 13, 2017
Nathan has been promoted from Ice boy to Ice Prince! Can't wait for the day when he is coronated the Ice King. Hopefully next month.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
The Shibs called him "the kid," so we can say the kid has become the ice prince hahahha.
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