2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating

[andromache]

Now, back to Russian ladies....

What is everyone's dream lady + music/choreographer pairing?

I'd love to see Tsurskaya do something ultra-modern (think, a slightly softer Parisienne Walkways) with Jeff Buttle. And for Anna to do two programs with Misha Ge next year. (Keep her away from Morozov! Even though their work together is still very good....)

I also think Maria Sotskova and Lori Nichol would be a match made in heaven.

Coincidentally, this is also my dream Olympic team.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Masha should get back to choreographing with llona Protasenia next year!

 

[venx]

You know what?
If the 4th spot for Russian ladies is not introduced, they should start organizing international MATCHES Russia vs Japan. 4 Rus ladies/men/juniors vs 4 Jpn ladies/men/juniors annually in Japan and Russia. I'm pretty sure it would have great attendance, revenue and with time - prestige.

It would force ISU to make changes.

 

[andromache]

You know what?
If the 4th spot for Russian ladies is not introduced, they should start organizing international MATCHES Russia vs Japan. 4 Rus ladies/men/juniors vs 4 Jpn ladies/men/juniors annually in Japan and Russia. I'm pretty sure it would have great attendance, revenue and with time - prestige.

It would force ISU to make changes.

Ooooh, and US and Canada could do men/dance/juniors! Maybe pairs could even be represented if we do Canadian pairs versus Chinese pairs?

 

[venx]

Ooooh, and US and Canada could do men/dance/juniors! Maybe pairs could even be represented if we do Canadian pairs versus Chinese pairs?

This is thread about Russian ladies, let's keep our focus on the topic.

 

[andromache]

This is thread about Russian ladies, let's keep our focus on the topic.

You mean like I've been trying to do? Lololol okay.

 

[venx]

You mean like I've been trying to do? Lololol okay.

I understand other countries and disciplines are important to you, but in this thread we're trying to figure out how to bring some elementary justice to the ladies discipline.
Russian girls, their coaches and their fans deserve that 4th spot at Worlds. It's the fair thing to do.

 

[andromache]

I understand other countries and disciplines are important to you, but in this thread we're trying to figure out how to bring some elementary justice to the ladies discipline.
Russian girls, their coaches and their fans deserve that 4th spot at Worlds. It's the fair thing to do.

"Elementary justice to the ladies discipline" should be in its own thread. Russian ladies are important to me, and I'd like to actually discuss them rather than this supposed "injustice." Amazing that some of the most fortunate athletes in the world, with access to incredible amounts of elite training, choreography, ice time, etc. at relatively low cost to themselves and to their families, are somehow in need of your fan-mandated "justice." I expect that not one of them thinks of themselves as needing it, either.

Again, if you were truly interested in increased "fairness" of how spots are awarded, you would create potential new systems of how spots should be awarded "more fairly" for all countries and all disciplines, rather than wanting to give the Russian ladies a 4th spot just cuz. Because that isn't your intent (unlike Meoima, Manitou, and hanca, who have all presented possible system changes that would change how Worlds spots are determined and likely result in more than three spots for Russian ladies, as well as more spots for other countries in other disciplines), you cannot really be taken seriously.

Anna Kuzmenko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztYMMIosZOg
new trend from couch Svetlana Panova - more choreography and glide.

Tiny jumps, But I really like the overall style. The program is "less busy" but there is still a lot of attention to detail that I like.

 

[venx]

Again, if you were truly interested in increased "fairness" of how spots are awarded, you would create potential new systems of how spots should be awarded "more fairly" for all countries and all disciplines, rather than wanting to give the Russian ladies a 4th spot just cuz. Because that isn't your intent (unlike Meoima, Manitou, and hanca, who have all presented possible system changes that would change how Worlds spots are determined and likely result in more than three spots for Russian ladies, as well as more spots for other countries in other disciplines), you cannot really be taken seriously.

Listen, these girls are going through the hell of domestic hunger games year after year and it's only going to be worse. Adding 4th spot is an immediate human reaction to injustice, it's like using relief valve.
Creating systems is noble thing to do, but we need some help for these 15-18yo, scoring 200point plus, left at home, uber talented athletes NOW. Let's give them that 4th spot to release the pain and cure the whole system afterwards. :thumbsup:

 

[Ares]

Listen, these girls are going through the hell of domestic hunger games year after year and it's only going to be worse. Adding 4th spot is an immediate human reaction to injustice, it's like using relief valve.
Creating systems is noble thing to do, but we need some help for these 15-18yo, scoring 200point plus, left at home, uber talented athletes NOW. Let's give them that 4th spot to release the pain and cure the whole system afterwards. :thumbsup:

After 4th spot that moaning won't stop. Some people would like 5 spots and so on, and so on ...

I don't think it would hurt to have 4 spots though like in Athletics (bar Olympics) - if you have 4 skaters who fulfilled minimums + eligible and reigning World / Continental-Euro you can send 4 of them. I don't think it's going to happen, 4 places in one discipline may propel domination of one country in specific category and possibly concrete things as it's more likely to have World Champion constantly if you have 4 skaters (possibly of elite level) in the field. People could start whining that only Russia wins medals and interest in some countries could go down, but there are many who think that it would make things more competitive and level in Ladies (if Russian is winninf) or in Ice Dance (if USA) could go up by having more skaters from these specific countries so it would make event more interesting for viewers. Unless you'd like more quota for more countries it could lead to that ''cementing thing''.

 

[andromache]

Listen, these girls are going through the hell of domestic hunger games year after year and it's only going to be worse. Adding 4th spot is an immediate human reaction to injustice, it's like using relief valve.
Creating systems is noble thing to do, but we need some help for these 15-18yo, scoring 200point plus, left at home, uber talented athletes NOW. Let's give them that 4th spot to release the pain and cure the whole system afterwards. :thumbsup:

This is sport, not life or death. Unmanageable stress and distress should be handled with therapy and support, but it seems like these girls are stronger than you think. Elena Radionova's interview is a perfect example. She will still fight, but she also knows skating is not life or death- like she talks about her education program.

 

[venx]

This is sport, not life or death.

Actually, it is life for most of them, Radionova included. Even Leonova admits she has to continue, because she can't imagine functioning outside skating.

 

[andromache]

Actually, it is life for most of them, Radionova included. Even Leonova admits she has to continue, because she can't imagine functioning outside skating.

And it is death for none of them, even ones who do not get to go to Worlds.

It is not even career-ending to miss Worlds over and over again, like Leonova.

ETA: Russian ladies are very lucky to continue receiving federation support even after having several mediocre years, like Leonova. The majority of skaters from other countries receive very little or no federation support even if they are extremely successful.

 

[venx]

And it is death for none of them, even ones who do not get to go to Worlds.

It is not even career-ending to miss Worlds over and over again, like Leonova.

Do you really need to witness career ending or death to consider rewarding these supertalented kids with one additional spot in Worlds?

 

[andromache]

Do you really need to witness career ending or death to consider rewarding these supertalented kids with one additional spot in Worlds?

You're the one who compared their lives to hell and the hunger games. I am just assuring you that they are fine.

 

[silverfoxes]

Skating is life for a lot of skaters who never even get close to an international podium. I think the hyperbole is getting out of control here. Like someone said, even if there were 4 or more Russian girls competing at Worlds, they're still competing for 3 medals. I just can't feel that sorry for skaters who have already achieved a Worlds medal and never make it again. Talent alone doesn't make you entitled to anything. What about all the skaters who had to give up because they couldn't afford it? Or because they got injured? Or never got any decent amount of support from their Fed to reach their potential? Life's not fair, luck and timing have a lot to do with success in sport, and there are tradeoffs that come with representing a fed like Russia vs. a different one where you're basically on your own.

 

[SnowWhite]

Actually, it is life for most of them, Radionova included. Even Leonova admits she has to continue, because she can't imagine functioning outside skating.

Skaters really loving skating isn't exactly exclusive to Russia you know. And it's funny you use Leonova as an example, but it's not like she'd be going to Worlds either way. She was 13th at Russian Nationals. There were seven age-eligible girls before her.

But the real problem with what your saying, is that these things are cyclical. Countries go through stronger and weaker periods in the various disciplines. There are ten Russian ladies in the top twenty in SB, seven of whom are age eligible for Worlds. There are six US teams in the top twenty in ID, all of whom are age eligible. Expand that to top 24 and there are 8 eligible Russian ladies and 8 eligible US teams. Why does it only matter that Russian ladies are so strong? I'm not necessarily opposed to more spots, but it has to come from a system that applies to all countries in every discipline. Because what happens if in a few years, it's Japan that is the strongest in ladies? Do you just take the extra spot away from Russia and give it to Japan? Who makes the decisions? You can't give them the spot and then figure out what the rules are. An organization like the ISU cannot and should not operate like that.

 

[venx]

You're the one who compared their lives to hell and the hunger games. I am just assuring you that they are fine.

Now we may say skaters like Radionova, Tuktamysheva were not in top form at Nats so they don't deserve to be at Worlds, but there is no doubt in the next years the competition is going to grow substantially with upcoming juniors filling senior ranks and there will be many girls giving they absolute 200+ best left home for most important fs tourneys. You know very well, tears, drama, broken hearts and careers are coming soon. We need to make a tiny little gesture now, before it's too late.

Paraphrasing your info: let's be "Team 4th spot for Russian ladies" before it was cool. :agree:

 

[Barb]

You know what?
If the 4th spot for Russian ladies is not introduced, they should start organizing international MATCHES Russia vs Japan. 4 Rus ladies/men/juniors vs 4 Jpn ladies/men/juniors annually in Japan and Russia. I'm pretty sure it would have great attendance, revenue and with time - prestige.

It would force ISU to make changes.

Already exist GPF senior and junior, 6 spots available, not only 3 or 4. If the russian girls are really sooooo good, soooo superior to the rest of the world, this competition will become the most prestigious competition of the season.
You seem desperate for ¨ justice¨ but 1 miserable spot won´t make the difference. And like other posters said it, trying be fair to russian girls, ISU will being unfair with other disciplines.

 

[Manitou]

Luckily, skaters do not need to compete X number of times in order to be good enough to get a Worlds spot. Requiring a certain number of competitions would be especially harmful to skaters recovering from injury. Many skaters would push themselves to compete when they shouldn't and only injure themselves further. Ashley doesn't need any excuses for not competing as much as other girls - she does what suits her best, other girls do what suits them best, and all are very talented and accomplished skaters. It isn't a bad thing.

You keep treating skaters as some sort of delicate and fragile "snowflakes" again. No, I don't mean the political term now, just couldn't find a better word.
No, the skaters are tough athletes. They are tough and trained athletes first, period. You said if they compete more then they will lose their artistry. Nonsense, ballet dancers perform every week and they are perfectly fine. If they lose their artistry they are fired. That's their training, that's their jobs. That's what they signed for.

The skiers run along the life/death boundary every week. Tennis players travel all year and each match is at least a two hour marathon, and they play it every two days. Average person would not be able to do it, but athletes are not average people. They are trained for it. That's what they are supposed to do. If two five minute performances a year is too much for a fragile skater then I don't want to see that skater, as he/she does not deserve my time.

P.S. You are right this topic should have its own thread. Can you start it?