- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
Doable, but not without BIG help from others..
State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
Doable, but not without BIG help from others..
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
This year?
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Of course! I have faith in my American women! :luv17:
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
Well, after today I think it's safe to say that USA federation will put the Karen Chen hype machine into hyper speed. She was wonderful, she really came in clutch for us but I'm waiting to see how she delivers next season before I feel confident in her consistency. Ashley, Ashley, Ashley...her heart just wasn't in it. I have no idea why but that was the vibe I got. The saddest part is with all the messy skates we got had she had her usually level of fight and grit she could have ended up on the podium, or at least closer then 7. She is always a class act though, she has given full credit to Karen on twitter for getting us 3 Olympic spots. Now let's hope she can keep her sh!t together during an Olympic season. The best outcome of this lackluster Wagner season is that she fuels the disappointment into straight fire for next season. COME THROUGH ASH!! As for Mariah I think she is such a lovely serene skater and I hope another season with Raf will take her even higher! Overall, I think it was a pretty strong showing for US ladies. Could have been better, but also could have been a heck of a lot worse.
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- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Honestly I think Ashley was just having an off night. It can happen to anyone, anytime, it just happened for her at a really really unfortunate moment. I don't think her heart wasn't in it, I truly just think for whatever reason it wasn't quite all there today. Again, could happen to anyone, just really sad it had to happen to her tonight.
With that said I'm so relieved we kept the three spots. I doubted Karen big time but no one could be happier than me that I was wrong and she was able to pull through, especially in what must have been a very high pressure situation for her.
I really like Karen Chen, but I don't think she will ever be as consistent as you like her to be. She will be up and down like Denis Ten.
Hopefully her career will mirror Denis Ten at some point.
What we know is international judges like her, and will reward her when she's clean.
What we also know is US judges also like her, and will reward her when she's clean. So there won't be wuzrobed with Karen in the foresee-able future.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
I thought both Karen and Mariah gave beautiful skates despite their errors. They both really have compelling presence on the ice. And I really admire Karen for being a great team player: when Ashley said on Twitter that the three spots were all down to Karen, Karen's response was, we did it together. Great sportsmanship on her part.
I don't know why, but Mariah reminds me a little bit of Carolina Kostner - perhaps it's the long legs.
I don't know why, but Mariah reminds me a little bit of Carolina Kostner - perhaps it's the long legs.
I thought the US women did fine. Top nine for Mariah in the free and with a better short she would have been top ten in the end so not bad at all. Yes an off night for Ashley but her practices were reported to be good so she just did not have it when it counted. Raf did say around Nats she had to get motivated from her high from last year's silver so that might have been partially it. And Karen, well I was one of the doubters but she proved me wrong. For most of her free she was on fire. Top four is great!!! Next years is going to be fabulous I think!!!
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
Karen finally answered haters with her 4th placement. And she is 17. She has gorgeous spins, spirals, musicality, not to mention she choreographed her own programs. If any top Russian or Japanese lady did their own choreograph, it would have had much more news coverage. Karen needs a good jumping coach to be consistent, even just a part time or summer coach.
Her current coach, Tammy Gambill, is known to be focused on technique. A few years ago, Karen was getting dinged with URs everywhere, I think it was US Junior nationals, and she changed to Gambill in the off-season. Working with Gambill has really shown great results. She adjusted to growth spurts and her jumps have terrific lift and distance. Her lutz is so big that I think it makes the 3T a bit tougher sometimes, but overall, I would say she needs to keep working with Gambill.
She needs AWESOME programs for the Olympics, though. Sort of odd that she hasn't worked with a bigger name choreographer. I don't think she should go it alone for the Olympics, she really needs a great choreographer who will also provide some name recognition. Tom Dixon, Philip Mills, David Wilson, anybody!
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Agree re: choreographer. Plus, if she is an aspiring choreographer herself, working with someone new and amazing can only give her more insight/experience.
Disagree re: Tammy. I've always been kind of down on Tammy Gambill due to all the skaters she has coached who never delivered at Worlds, but she might be just what Karen needs, in general. Still, she'd benefit from another jump specialist or two working on that 3-3 to make sure it's always around.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2015
I was one worried about Karen, but she proved me wrong and did a great job. Makes me really excited to see how things go next year. We of course have Mariah, Ashley and Karen, assuming we have Gracie and Polina back in the game, and Mirai, and then we have Tess Hong who has lots of potential and Bradie and Amber and Courtney(Nationals was rough for her, but she has the potential to skate really big). There actually is a lot of depth. Its a great thing that we have three spots because I think we have the depth to need them.
Not to bash Ashley in any way, but I love how her role switched with that of Karen's. Going in, Ashley was seen as the high placer and Karen/Mariah were just depended on to skate a decent enough skate to eek out that third spot. Now Karen is the Worlds 4th place finisher 
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
I don't know why I had the impression that Tammy is Karen's coach from the very beginning. I think her sp is brilliant, and the music creates magic. It reminds me of Akiko's Cirque de Soleil program. I don't mind if Karen keeps the same sp next season. The lp is not as good, but decent.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2014
Not to bash Ashley in any way, but I love how her role switched with that of Karen's. Going in, Ashley was seen as the high placer and Karen/Mariah were just depended on to skate a decent enough skate to eek out that third spot. Now Karen is the Worlds 4th place finisher
this! though even as a fan of ashley, i felt like her tweet about "and can we all thank karen for single handedly saving the US" or something like that was very condescending. imagine if mariah or karen tweeted that about ashley, it would sound oddly condescending because ashley would supposedly be the one on top. and for ashley to tweet that about karen, although i know ashley is very kind and doesn't mean any ill-feeling towards her, just comes across as a bit condescending or as if ashley still sees herself as the top lady/leader that has to congratulate the younger ones as if she were their leader. yes she is the most experienced but she also perhaps isn't as great as she and we all think she is (i say we as in myself, because i used to love ashley but this season really made me rethink especially due to her programs being so easy for such a top contender. we usually think of athletes as those who push themselves but it seems like she just stuck to the easy/no transitions type of thing to coast to the top. hopefully she realizes that that isn't sustainable to be a world or olympic medalist).
it's tragic because she did seem really in shape this season and was doing well in practice, but then she put all that pressure on herself by talking big and look at what happened. seriously you never see other skaters talk about themselves as if they were some team leader that everyone is depending on. not even yuzu did that back when shoma wasn't around or when shoma wasn't as good as he is now. the canadians don't do that either, the japanese ladies certainly don't go and say that either despite satoko being the obvious "alpha" among them. even when mao and satoko are on the same team, we don't see mao talking about "im gonna lead these girls and it rests upon me" because mao knows she isn't technically up to bat yet and that satoko is the more consistent one, it would be rude to come in talking about how much of a leader you are and how your team depends on you when literally no one said that. it's condescending towards the other girls as well.
Who are all of her skaters who never delivered? Richard Dornbush? He only got one chance to go to Worlds and he was the top American. She recently coached Vincent Zhou to his junior worlds win.
Tammy Gambill is known as being good with technique, hence why Caroline Zhang switched to her at one point, and so did Hannah Miller last year--both skaters who suffered from URs. She has more of a reputation for technique than, say, Jason Brown's coach, Kori Ade (which is probably why Jason Brown goes and works with Frank Carroll from time to time). Her skaters have solid basic skating, solid jump technique (at least the ones that she trains from ground up) that focus on getting enough height/distance to fully rotate the jumps (as opposed to pre-rotating the heck out of them), and commitment to transitions and choreography. They are not all equally talented in terms of jumps or artistry, but there isn't a consistent weakness among her skaters that I'd consider to be a failing of her as a coach.
Gambill hasn't coached a superstar yet, but not all coaches are as lucky as Brian Orser, who admits himself he had no idea what he was doing at the beginning when he inherited Yu-Na Kim, who was already making history before he became her coach.
And if Ashley HADN'T praised Karen for saving the team (as Karen surely did), what then would have been your complaint?
If anything. I took Ashley's tweet as both praise for Karen and a put-down of herself. Hardly condescending.
"Literally no one said that." Seriously? Did you not read any of the Worlds preview stories? Or all the comments on this forum that worried that neither of the two Worlds rookies would be able to "help Ashley" keep three spots for next year?
And yet you describe yourself as "a fan of Ashley" ...
I don't know, I think you might be reading too much into it? I thought the twitter exchange between Ashley & Karen was sweet.
And, well, Ashley is older with more experience at these big events, and tbh a lot of people actually were expecting her to place the highest of the U.S. women. It doesn't seem all that odd to me for her to be considered the team's veteran "anchor" in that sense. It also seems to be a phenomenon common with U.S. teams for various athletic events, so maybe it's a cultural thing?As for Ashley's programs: different athletes decide on different strategies based on their respective strengths & weaknesses -- and they have to accept the consequences for their choices, for better or for worse. If one athlete's strategy/style doesn't appeal to you, or no longer appeals to you as it once did, it's okay not to like it! Everyone's got their preferences.
I still wouldn't say that Ashley is "coasting" though... More that her strategy for the season, taking into account her changing body in addition to her natural capabilities & limitations, didn't pan out this time.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
According to Christine Brennan, Ashley will be doing Hip Hip Chin Chin for her SP next season, which is exactly what I think she should be doing. It's a much more complex program than the SP she did this year, and repeating it means there's more time to work on the new LP.
Great news! I loved that program which got scored over 70 when clean. Her SP this season never broke 70.
