2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[frida80]

Of the 3 Juv girls that went to Nationals last years, 2 were 2nd year Juvs and the 3rd was a 3rd year. So repeating at that level tends to be common.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year when the Juv age gets lowered by a year. My guess is the overall qualify at that level will probably remain about the same.

I really think the bonus system will pay off over the next couple of years.

Yep. IJS is tricky. Many girls don't realize they on the wrong edge, under rotating or spin levels. After two seasons they clean up their jumps and gain a lot of confidence.

As for the age change, I assume that it won't change things much. It just means ladies who were uncomfortable moving up will be forced to move up sooner or quit. I think they did that to flush out older girls that win competitions on account of their strong components and maturity. They need to move up so competitions can focus more on jumps.

I defiantly think the bonus system will pay off. Elisa may not have won juvenile this year, but she did get picked up by Tom Z. Mark my words, she will have a 3A by the time she goes to the JGP.

 

[concorde]

Yep. IJS is tricky. Many girls don't realize they on the wrong edge, under rotating or spin levels. After two seasons they clean up their jumps and gain a lot of confidence.

As for the age change, I assume that it won't change things much. It just means ladies who were uncomfortable moving up will be forced to move up sooner or quit. I think they did that to flush out older girls that win competitions on account of their strong components and maturity. They need to move up so competitions can focus more on jumps.

I defiantly think the bonus system will pay off. Elisa may not have won juvenile this year, but she did get picked up by Tom Z. Mark my words, she will have a 3A by the time she goes to the JGP.

I think the shift to slightly older girls in the beginner IJS levels is due to the more demanding jumps they need to do to reach the top of the that level.

I do agree that one or two girls in that "class" will have a 3A by the time they reach JPG. My bet is on Haley Scott + ??. I really question if it will be Elize to to her build.

Pardon my snarkyness but I think the correct reference is "back" to Tom Z. Two years ago she as at the Broadmore and I am pretty she was with Tom Z then. Then last year they moved to LA to be with Rafeal. And now they are back to the Broadmore.

 

[frida80]

I think the shift to slightly older girls in the beginner IJS levels is due to the more demanding jumps they need to do to reach the top of the that level.

I do agree that one or two girls in that "class" will have a 3A by the time they reach JPG. My bet is on Haley Scott + ??. I really question if it will be Elize to to her build.

Pardon my snarkyness but I think the correct reference is "back" to Tom Z. Two years ago she as at the Broadmore and I am pretty she was with Tom Z then. Then last year they moved to LA to be with Rafeal. And now they are back to the Broadmore.

I don't think your being snarky. U realized my error too late. You're right. She was with Tom Z before. My mistake.

Build is everything for a triple axel. But Tonya was muscular, so I hope that more ladies will be able to do the jump. But quads are a different story. I wonder if we'll ever have a slender girl with the power needed to do a quad.

 

[mrrice]

I don't think your being snarky. U realized my error too late. You're right. She was with Tom Z before. My mistake.

Build is everything for a triple axel. But Tonya was muscular, so I hope that more ladies will be able to do the jump. But quads are a different story. I wonder if we'll ever have a slender girl with the power needed to do a quad.

Sasha Cohen has landed a couple of quads Sal's in practice but, I think Miki is still the only lady to have one ratified. Sasha isn't built like Tonya Harding though. I have seen Tonya live twice, and though she appears quite muscular on TV, she and Kristi Yamaguchi were smaller than some of my middle school dancers. Sasha, though taller, was extremely thin. The fact that she could jump so high must be from Gymnastic Training. Her Russian split jumps were HUGE....Here's Sasha making a quad attempt at Skate America in 2001. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adbq89r-8pw

 

[macy]

I think your "average" age is a bit on the low side.

Last year I knew 3 juv girls that went to Nationals and all 3 were either 10 or 11. At the Intermediate level, I know 2 girls that went to Nationals and both were 12. And for what it is worth, all 5 of these girls that went to Nationals last year are moving up to the next level this year. Remember that a top skater at one level is probably better than the majority of skaters at the next level up.

I think the bonus system is shifting the age and the level progression.


I would disagree on the comment of not seeing alot of 13 years olds at the juv level. We saw alot of them but they are usually not the top skaters. Exceptions do exists - there was one 13-year old that reached Eastern last year.

wow, things must have really changed since i skated competitively (about ten years ago). back then i was 15-16 competing at intermediate and i don't recall many 10-12 year olds that i competed against. many of us were in that same age range. but those who were more successful tended to be a little younger than me (although definitely not 10-12). with IJS changing so much since then it doesn't surprise me there's so many younger girls at those levels now. i'm just worried with them pushing jumps more now that these girls will get burned out or have a career-ending injury at such young ages.

 

[frida80]

Sasha Cohen has landed a couple of quads Sal's in practice but, I think Miki is still the only lady to have one ratified. Sasha isn't built like Tonya Harding though. I have seen Tonya live twice, and though she appears quite muscular on TV, she and Kristi Yamaguchi were smaller than some of my middle school dancers. Sasha, though taller, was extremely thin. The fact that she could jump so high must be from Gymnastic Training. Her Russian split jumps were HUGE....Here's Sasha making a quad attempt at Skate America in 2001. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adbq89r-8pw

Sasha was brilliant. I doubt we ever get another girl like her for another 20 years.

 

[MarinHondas]

I think your "average" age is a bit on the low side.

Last year I knew 3 juv girls that went to Nationals and all 3 were either 10 or 11. At the Intermediate level, I know 2 girls that went to Nationals and both were 12. And for what it is worth, all 5 of these girls that went to Nationals last year are moving up to the next level this year. Remember that a top skater at one level is probably better than the majority of skaters at the next level up.

I think the bonus system is shifting the age and the level progression.


I would disagree on the comment of not seeing alot of 13 years olds at the juv level. We saw alot of them but they are usually not the top skaters. Exceptions do exists - there was one 13-year old that reached Eastern last year.

i think the original poster's average age is very low. 2 years ago our novice national champ was 16, 14 when she was in intermediate. And the year before the novice national champ was 17. Age varies a lot.

 

[frida80]

i think the original poster's average age is very low. 2 years ago our novice national champ was 16, 14 when she was in intermediate. And the year before the novice national champ was 17. Age varies a lot.

Haley and Emily right? For some reason I thought Haley was 15 when she won. I didn't say that there are no older winners, just the ages of the average novice when they start. Emily won at 17 but started novice at 14. Haley started at 15. Karen was 12 when she won. Vivian was 13.

The younger winners tend to do better though. But Emily and Haley are struggling now, unfortunately.

 

[MarinHondas]

Haley and Emily right? For some reason I thought Haley was 15 when she won. I didn't say that there are no older winners, just the ages of the average novice when they start. Emily won at 17 but started novice at 14. Haley started at 15. Karen was 12 when she won. Vivian was 13.

The younger winners tend to do better though. But Emily and Haley are struggling now, unfortunately.

Yes she was 16, she commented back to a user on youtube who asked her age at the time of the event. I personally think Haley and Emily are and were more well developed artistically and skating skills wise than Karen. Although Karen was great and I adore her now she skated her age(besides her beautiful high level jumps) at the novice level. Emily and Haley looked like novice, ready to turn junior skaters. Of course, jumps are everything in this system so yes it probably is better to win it younger. But I believe both skaters will bounce back next year. Haley especially has a lot of jumping talent as well. She jumps very high and can do triple-triples. I believe junior nationals was a simply a bad competition for her. Emily on the other hand does need to work a bit hard to get her jumps.

 

[mrrice]

How old was Sarah Hughes when she went Senior? I saw her live at Worlds in 1999 and she was in 7th grade and must have been 13 or 14 Max. She still had braces and though she was "Coltish" I still saw her doing well in the future. I didn't see her winning the OG's when she did but, I thought she might in 2006. Here is young Sarah Hughes at Worlds in 1999 and as you'll hear in the video, she was just 13 when she made her senior debut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BevjNkPJXhY

 

[concorde]

wow, things must have really changed since i skated competitively (about ten years ago). back then i was 15-16 competing at intermediate and i don't recall many 10-12 year olds that i competed against. many of us were in that same age range. but those who were more successful tended to be a little younger than me (although definitely not 10-12). with IJS changing so much since then it doesn't surprise me there's so many younger girls at those levels now. i'm just worried with them pushing jumps more now that these girls will get burned out or have a career-ending injury at such young ages.

The bonus system has really stirred up the pot and I believe in a good way. The whole bar on what is "required / expected" to be competitve at the levels has really risen over the last couple of years. That is why I have faith that in a couple of years, we will see a super competitive "class" of skaters not just a couple of bright lights. The first "class" where I expect to see this is with current Novices.

 

[Arriba627]

Bradie Tennell (far right) did a great job this past weekend at Glacier Ice's show. She was one of the featured guests. Really enjoyed her skating. She placed 9th last year at Nats (senior ladies). Hope she has a good upcoming season.
https://pic.twitter.com/Q2Flrqi63Q

Enjoyed Maxine Bautista too but realized I didn't get a photo of her. She was very impressive. She was 7th at U.S. Jr. Nats 2017. Several of her programs have been choreographed by Marina Zoueva. She shows a lot of promise, and I look forward to seeing her develop.

 

[princessalica]

And Bradie was 6th at Nationals in 2016, so she has a lot of potential.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

And Bradie was 6th at Nationals in 2016, so she has a lot of potential.

I'm curious on what people think of Bradie. TSL slammed her (), the usfsa must think good things of her because she was sent to jr worlds twice. I'm thinking if she does some summer competitions soon, she might get a TBD spot. Maybe? Or is her seasons best not high enough?

I'm wondering if she'll be overshadowed by other "on-the-rise"-ers. Think amber glenn (is she in the doghouse?) and Paige rydberg.

 

[mrrice]

And Bradie was 6th at Nationals in 2016, so she has a lot of potential.

I remember that. Bradie really sparkles when she's on the ice and if she can hold it together, I think she'll a become a post Olympic threat. I can't see any of the younger skaters breaking through until Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, and Polina are gone. I could definitely see a podium with Karen, Tessa and Bradie in the future. Kaitlyn Nguyen and Starr Andrews are coming up fast and things will get quite interesting in the next 3 seasons.

Here's Bradie's 2016 LP from Nationals. I saw a bright future for her following this performance and if she gets back to this level for 2018 and beyond, she could definitely be a contender. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT9c9QcOudo

 

[andromache]

I remember that. Bradie really sparkles when she's on the ice and if she can hold it together I think she'll a become a post Olympic threat. I can't see any of the younger skaters breaking through until Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, and Polina are gone. I could definitely see a podium with Karen, Tessa and Bradie in the future. Kaitlyn Nguyen and Starr Andrews are coming up fast and things will get quite interesting in the next 3 seasons.

This is going to seem really harsh...but if Bradie makes a senior Nationals podium, then the US ladies are in more dire straits than anyone thought. She's completely plateaued over the past few years and can't even make an impact at the junior level internationally, even though she is 19.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

This is going to seem really harsh...but if Bradie makes a senior Nationals podium, then the US ladies are in more dire straits than anyone thought. She's completely plateaued over the past few years and can't even make an impact at the junior level internationally, even though she is 19.

I have to kinda agree with you. But she hasn't completely plateaued. It's more just the simple fact that bradie isn't interesting to watch, the choreography isn't good, she's kinda bland . So the usfsa won't put her on the nationals podium. They can make it so her GOE are only +1, and her PCS are lower than the top.
I don't think bradie has learned how to use her long limbs to her advantage. She and her team haven't picked great music for her. All this, and we have a skater who hasn't made a big impact. Figure skating is harsh.

 

[andromache]

I have to kinda agree with you. But she hasn't completely plateaued. It's more just the simple fact that bradie isn't interesting to watch, the choreography isn't good, she's kinda bland . So the usfsa won't put her on the nationals podium. They can make it so her GOE are only +1, and her PCS are lower than the top.
I don't think bradie has learned how to use her long limbs to her advantage. She and her team haven't picked great music for her. All this, and we have a skater who hasn't made a big impact. Figure skating is harsh.

IMO, USFSA isn't MAKING it so that Bradie's GOE are low. That's just Bradie, and her GOE are low internationally as well. As one of 2 US ladies sent to Junior Worlds, Bradie has been in a good position to get big federation GOE/PCS, but she just isn't at the level of the Japanese and Russian ladies. You'd think the maturity/experience of an 18-19 year old should have her killing it in PCS on the Junior level, but she's not, because she just isn't as good. And that's compared to the juniors!

 

[Ice Dance]

I've only been watching Bradie for two seasons, and her season this year was very short. I think she has a unique look (she stood out from the pack during the first summer competition where I watched her). But I also think she was poorly packaged last season. The choreography, particularly in her free, was generic. Busy, with lots of reaching here there and everywhere, but no storytelling. Nothing unique or held. But I think she could learn how to do that. In fact, I would say I expect her to improve quite a bit as a performer. As far as the jumps are concerned, she seems to either be more solid than everyone or not competitive at all. I haven't figured her out as a competitor yet. She seems to get the same URs as most of the other U.S. ladies.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

IMO, USFSA isn't MAKING it so that Bradie's GOE are low. That's just Bradie, and her GOE are low internationally as well. As one of 2 US ladies sent to Junior Worlds, Bradie has been in a good position to get big federation GOE/PCS, but she just isn't at the level of the Japanese and Russian ladies. You'd think the maturity/experience of an 18-19 year old should have her killing it in PCS on the Junior level, but she's not, because she just isn't as good. And that's compared to the juniors!

I know. I have a funny feeling she might be in the running for a GP spot. Oh well, there are other skaters on the rise. Is Tessa old enough for the olympics? Or, thinking in terms of those newer skaters that people aren't really talking about, what about Paige, Amber, Tyler?