2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[ice coverage]

... I learned from the forum that Mirai didn't like Miss Saigon ...

Then you were misinformed, AFAIK.

AFAIK, Mirai has never said that she did not like Miss Saigon.

What Mirai told Ted Flett is that she had not seen the show. Very different from saying that she did not like Miss Saigon.

---

... I'm not an anonymous poster either ...

Sincere request:

If you previously have shared your real-life identity on GS at some point, then I have missed it.
Please repeat it so that I (and perhaps others) now can learn who you are.

To be clear: If you do not want to share your real-life identity, I have absolutely no intention of or interest in forcing you to.
I myself am an anonymous poster.
If you do not want to share your real-life identity, no problem. But then you too are an anonymous poster.​

... I am trying to have a conversation, while you are only trying to shut down conversation, and at the same time trying to downgrade someone's well informed and considered opinion as "armchair".

armchair quarterback in American
or armchair general

a person who is not a quarterback (or general, etc.), but offers opinions and criticism on the performance or decisions of those who are ​

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/armchair-quarterback​

Are you an Olympian and current-day U.S. ladies skater who has won national, GP, and Four Continents medals?

If so, then I apologize that I missed a previous revelation of your identity.

If not, then you are making armchair assessments.

"Armchair" does not mean that you do not have serious knowledge as an observer of the sport.

In any case, IMO, you seem more interested in giving a monologue than having a conversation.

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Sorry, frida. I will try once again to leave this conversation behind me.

 

[frida80]

Then you were misinformed, AFAIK.

AFAIK, Mirai has never said that she did not like Miss Saigon.

What she told Ted Flett is that she had not seen the show. Very different from saying that she did not like Miss Saigon.

---

Sincere request:

If you previously have shared your real-life identity on GS at some point, then I have missed it.
Please repeat it so that I (and perhaps others) now can learn who you are.

To be clear: If you do not want to share your real-life identity, I have absolutely no intention of or interest in forcing you to.
I myself am an anonymous poster.
If you do not want to share your real-life identity, no problem. But then you too are an anonymous poster.​

armchair quarterback in American
or armchair general

a person who is not a quarterback (or general, etc.), but offers opinions and criticism on the performance or decisions of those who are ​

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/armchair-quarterback​

Are you an Olympian and current-day U.S. ladies skater who has won national, GP, and Four Continents medals?

If so, then I apologize that I missed a previous revelation of your identity.

If not, then you are making armchair assessments.

"Armchair" does not mean that you do not have serious knowledge as an observer of the sport.

In any case, IMO, you seem more interested in giving a monologue than having a conversation.

---

Sorry, frida. I will try once again to leave this conversation behind me.

It gets really hard to ignore a poster like this. I've learned over time that arguing with them is pointless. Just stick them on ignore and move on. It's like the sky clears up and you can focus on clear blue sky again.

BTW, I really appreciate you efforts to keep us informed about figure skating news. You and Sylvia are real treasures.

 

[Hockeyguy]

I am a concert pianist by profession and play that posthumuos Chopin "Nocturne" (Chopin himself never gave it the official name of Nocturne, but it clearly is). I am a big fan of Nagasu. But that program has a huge disconnect to the music. When I watch it it's almost as if she is actually skating to something else and they plastered on the Chopin music afterwards. That deeply, deeply tragic music, made of few notes...it's a huge challenge to fill that.

I'm a bit torn though, since I sympathise a lot with her for selecting the music, and not going with something more superficial.

 

[Barb]

I am a concert pianist by profession and play that posthumuos Chopin "Nocturne" (Chopin himself never gave it the official name of Nocturne, but it clearly is). I am a big fan of Nagasu. But that program has a huge disconnect to the music. When I watch it it's almost as if she is actually skating to something else and they plastered on the Chopin music afterwards. That deeply, deeply tragic music, made of few notes...it's a huge challenge to fill that.

I'm a bit torn though, since I sympathise a lot with her for selecting the music, and not going with something more superficial.

sorry, I know it is the US skaters thread but what do you think about Evgenia´s program?

 

[Seren]

I really love Mirai's SP. I find it really lovely. The important thing is that she loves her programs- hers is the opinion that matters.

I have been skeptical of her in the recent past as a serious threat (though she has always been a sentimental favorite) but I think if she can rein in her nerves and rotate her jumps she has a really solid shot at the Olympic team. She's improved over the last two years qhich after her years of struggling is not an easy thing to do.

 

[ice coverage]

... BTW, I really appreciate you efforts to keep us informed about figure skating news. You and Sylvia are real treasures.

And I in turn learn a lot from your posts, frida .

Many thanks for the compliment, but I would be the first to say that I pay consistent or semi-consistent attention to just a fraction of subtopics within the infinite universe of skating.

I am familiar with only the tip of the iceberg of Sylvia's offerings, but her prolific and systematic efforts are in another league.

 

[Hockeyguy]

sorry, I know it is the US skaters thread but what do you think about Evgenia´s program?

It is beautiful, really beautiful. Again, I say this as a Nagasu fan, who was at the Boston nationals seeing for myself how she can make the crowd go nuts when she is on. I also know these are personal reflections, someone thinks differently, that's all good.

 

[frida80]

And I in turn learn a lot from your posts, frida .

Many thanks for the compliment, but I would be the first to say that I pay consistent or semi-consistent attention to just a fraction of subtopics within the infinite universe of skating.

I am familiar with only the tip of the iceberg of Sylvia's offerings, but her prolific and systematic efforts are in another league.

:
That's sweet. Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate everyone that takes time out of their day to provide important information like yours. It makes the sport a lot more fun. I agree that Sylvia's efforts are huge, but I appreciate yours just as much.

 

[largeman]

I am a concert pianist by profession and play that posthumuos Chopin "Nocturne" (Chopin himself never gave it the official name of Nocturne, but it clearly is).

If you have a recording (or better yet, a video) of you playing the piece, I would love to hear it

 

[Hockeyguy]

If you have a recording (or better yet, a video) of you playing the piece, I would love to hear it

It seems like I don't, I recorded it a long time ago but I could not find that album on Spotify. Sorry

 

[Blades of Passion]

Are you an Olympian and current-day U.S. ladies skater who has won national, GP, and Four Continents medals?

Is Mirai's coach? Is Eteri? Frank Carroll? Lori Nichol? David Wilson? Please. I was a skater who was doing all the triple jumps, studied and worked as a choreographer, and have worked with various people in the skating world to help update the scoring system. So yes I have an extensive basis of understanding about the things being talked about and I don't care what someone's superficial credentials are, I care about reasoning and thought. I don't find it worthwhile to blindly think any skater or their coach has an infallible opinion. I do find it worthwhile to analyze Mirai's program and how it can be expected to score when set alongside Medvedeva's program.

Skate Canada 2008 among others.

It's hilarious you mention this, because he absolutely did not get good PCS there (nor anywhere else internationally) and I always like to look at this competition as an amusing case study (the situation with all of the top 5 guys there is interesting). Patrick Chan bombed this competition and yet still won it, precisely because of how low Bradley's PCS were. After Ryan Bradley's breakthrough at 2007 Nationals (his LP there is such a delight) people were hoping there would be more development of his skating skills and spins and overall artistry, but it never happened with Tom Z at the head of the ship. That's been the case time and time again with Tom Z as coach, not to mention the numerous times he's forced skaters to compete when injured. So forgive me for finding him to be a very lacking coach.

 

[klutzy]

Well, I am an armchair critic and no skating expert, but I think both Blades and Hockeyguy have a point. I'm not a big fan of Medvedeva, but she's all about emoting between tanos and the Chopin plays to her strengths, not Mirai's. With something like the Chopin, you either need big emoting or a long line that expresses the legato quality of the music like Kostner. Mirai has some lovely qualities to her skating and I admire her perseverance, but this is not the right piece of music, particularly with Med. using it.

 

[skatenewbie]

Cant wait for US Classic, im curious how Karen and Mirai will fare with 2 japanese lady that just turn senior. i wonder if Mirai will try 3A in FS only or in SP too like she did in summer competition. also how Bradie will do in Lombardia since she have the highest score in summer competitions

 

[bytheriver]

I saw on the JGP Italy list that Ashley Lin is listed as the US ladies entry. That leaves Minsk for Tessa (assigned) and Poland for Starr Andrews at this moment. Is Emmy Ma not getting a second JGP even after her success this past weekend?

I know without a 3-3 she is unlikely to be competitive with the other ladies at the JGPF, but at the moment she is the one that has the best shot at that with her bronze in Latvia. We don't know how Tessa will do, but Starr got fifth and Ashley got sixth at their first JGPs (although Ashley had a slightly higher score than Starr and only got sixth because of the depth of the field in Riga). I think Emmy and Starr should be swapped out and Starr should be given a senior B if possible to get more experience.

 

[frida80]

I saw on the JGP Italy list that Ashley Lin is listed as the US ladies entry. That leaves Minsk for Tessa (assigned) and Poland for Starr Andrews at this moment. Is Emmy Ma not getting a second JGP even after her success this past weekend?

I know without a 3-3 she is unlikely to be competitive with the other ladies at the JGPF, but at the moment she is the one that has the best shot at that with her bronze in Latvia. We don't know how Tessa will do, but Starr got fifth and Ashley got sixth at their first JGPs (although Ashley had a slightly higher score than Starr and only got sixth because of the depth of the field in Riga). I think Emmy and Starr should be swapped out and Starr should be given a senior B if possible to get more experience.

Those are just placeholders. They had to submit names weeks before they knew the results of the competition. I expect that they will change the skaters pretty soon.

That said, I think Ashley and Emmy had an advantage over Starr and Kaitlyn at their JGP. Both Ashley and Emmy had already competed with their junior FS before going to their JGP, so it makes sense that their programs are stronger. Kaitlyn and Starr have competed with their senior FS only. Both Starr and Kaitlyn second JGP would be more polished than their first.

If USFS is serious about Sending strong competitors to JW, they will send Starr, Kaitlyn, Emmy, and Ashley and other strong junior level competitors to a strong junior B competition so they can get more experience with their junior programs with a competitive field. Tallinn Trophy normally has a few strong Russian Juniors. Senior Bs are good for points, but it doesn't help skaters perform their FS better.

 

[brightphoton]

Interesting assessment. I am really puzzled at how much a skater is given the choice of his/her programs. It was kind of shocking that I learned from the forum that Mirai didn't like Miss Saigon but because the other music was chosen by Max (I might be wrong though), and she is left with Miss Saigon. If it is true, it is just wrong on so many levels. How can her coach and/or choreographer only prepare two choices for a male, a female skaters with two very different styles, not to mention asking their choices? Is this quite common for US skaters?

Mirai originally wanted to skate to Firebird or Queen, but Max Aaron chose it first and therefore he got "dibs" and therefore Mirai could not skate to it. Evgenia Med chooses Chopin's Nocturne and she does not get dibs because uhhhh .... anyway, even head coach Tom Z didn't know that Mirai was skating to Miss Saigon until she skated an excerpt for him. Until that point, he thought she was skating to Firebird. Given that he didn't even know what Mirai's music was, it's very unlikely he's helping Mirai understand any choreographic nuances.

Back to the process of choosing her Olympic music. Jeff played her Sun and Moon, and Mirai liked it so now Miss Saigon is her free program music. An interviewer asked Mirai what she thought of Miss Saigon, and Mirai said she had never seen the musical, but she "heard it was like Madame Butterfly." He then asked her if she gets to help develop the choreography, but Mirai said no, she is hands-off, Jeff Buttle handles all that.

I am a concert pianist by profession and play that posthumuos Chopin "Nocturne" (Chopin himself never gave it the official name of Nocturne, but it clearly is). I am a big fan of Nagasu. But that program has a huge disconnect to the music. When I watch it it's almost as if she is actually skating to something else and they plastered on the Chopin music afterwards. That deeply, deeply tragic music, made of few notes...it's a huge challenge to fill that.

I'm a bit torn though, since I sympathise a lot with her for selecting the music, and not going with something more superficial.

I guess it's possible that Mirai understands her short program music and how to use her skating to express it. But going by the artistic and choreographic process of her free skate, she is probably doing exactly what Jeff tells her to do, Tom Z is helping her with technique, and that's it. Chopin sounds nice as background music and if she can perform all the technical elements correctly, she'll score well.

That's been the case time and time again with Tom Z as coach, not to mention the numerous times he's forced skaters to compete when injured. So forgive me for finding him to be a very lacking coach.

I thought it was very telling not a few months after Tom Z made Josh Farris skate with a fractured leg, he was nominated for the USFSA Coach of the Year. Just shows you how much they care about skaters being injured.

 

[ice coverage]

Mirai originally wanted to skate to Firebird or Queen, but Max Aaron chose it first ...

Max Aaron is skating neither to Firebird nor to Queen.

 

[brightphoton]

Max Aaron is skating neither to Firebird nor to Queen.

Dibs is indeed a unfathomable system.

Or Tom Z has no idea what Mirai or Jeff are doing music-wise, which has also confirmed.

 

[ssffww]

Well, I am an armchair critic and no skating expert, but I think both Blades and Hockeyguy have a point. I'm not a big fan of Medvedeva, but she's all about emoting between tanos and the Chopin plays to her strengths, not Mirai's. With something like the Chopin, you either need big emoting or a long line that expresses the legato quality of the music like Kostner. Mirai has some lovely qualities to her skating and I admire her perseverance, but this is not the right piece of music, particularly with Med. using it.

But, she's scored far higher with her Chopin SP last season than she's ever done. I have a feeling that had a lot to do with keeping it. Same with Ashley bringing back Hip Hip, Chin Chin, by far her highest scoring SP. I haven't seen the choice of music making all that much difference in the judges PCS scoring, so I'm all for skaters using whatever music motivates them and garners the best results.

 

[hippomoomin]

,... even head coach Tom Z didn't know that Mirai was skating to Miss Saigon until she skated an excerpt for him. Until that point, he thought she was skating to Firebird. Given that he didn't even know what Mirai's music was, it's very unlikely he's helping Mirai understand any choreographic nuances.

That is hilarious.