- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
No it wasn't, LOL. She added a couple minor transitions to the program the following season and modified one of the spins. It was the same program. The elements all in the exact same order and the choreography generally the same.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
No it wasn't, LOL. She added a couple minor transitions to the program the following season and modified one of the spins. It was the same program. The elements all in the exact same order and the choreography generally the same.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
I think she's very smart to go back to 2 programs that she knows and is comfortable with. This is an Olympic season and if she had a feeling La la land wasn't going to work, there isn't much time to get feedback from judges (since she didn't compete in any summer comps or senior b's) and to wait and see. These are 2 programs that have brought her probably the most success she's had in her career, and I believe she has the capability to bring just as much if not more magic with both of them. This shows she's not playing games and is bringing to the table what she knows she can do well and plays up her strengths which is incredibly smart in an Olympic year.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Yes,it is a smart move for Ashley to go back to two well known routines that she likes and the public loves as well as the judges. She should be able to focus on the elements more and improve them. I think skaters like Anna Pogo and Osmond would be wise to follow suit. There are no extra points for new programs - just more work to cat learn the programs and elements. This move might have guaranteed her an olympic spot on the US team.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Jackie Wong provides no good reasoning, mainly just fluff talk, so simply linking that is not an argument. When you have the exact same music, the exact same technical element layout (and timing for the most part), and the exact same opening choreography and general posing, it is the "same" program. Just like I said, she added a few minor transitions. That doesn't make it a different program.
Several of those alterations were not actually "better" transitions to begin with - in the 14/15 program she was praised for holding a long edge and then shifting on it while going into the Loop combo, and in 15/16 she breaks that long edge hold to do a single turn. That's not an improvement, it's just "busy work" nonsense. She also removed the opening transition into the axel in the 15/16 program. And then the worst thing about the 15/16 program is how the second Loop comes a bit later and the spread eagle beforehand was removed, missing the swell of the music and just skating through it.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
She has used red (with blonde hair) and white+gold (with red hair) and now her hair is light brown. Probably time to break out the silver costume:
http://www.naergilien.info/dolls/moulin/blackdiamonds/InPrint477.jpg
Nice color to remind about her world medal.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
i love your positivity but with the I'm assuming exact same music cut for the third time the program is going to feel tired to me no matter what new choreography is performed. Plus with other high profile skaters doing moulin rouge as well thats also going to contribute to program fatigue. I just can't believe that the top american woman for the past four years can't deliver ONE new program for the Olympic season. Even gracie who was out here struggling to hit a double was at least trying two new programs. Honestly it must be so hard to be a ladies skater right now, they all must know that no matter how hard they work no one will beat Evegenia, unless she gets injured. She's been made untouchable by the judges and is extremely consistent. But that is getting off topic....
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
I will admit I am slightly disappointed that Ashley is going back to MR. I say this as a fan of hers- but one of the things I have admired about her is her performance skills, interpretation, and general artistry. It's hard to really see someone as a genuine artist and performer when they keep performing the same thing. That doesn't show a lot of variety in ability or desire to push oneself artistically (which I know Ashley is capable of). I really liked her LP last year but the SP (Sweet Dreams) was just a lesser version of Hip Hip Chin Chin (which I adored). I almost wonder if she is afraid of a repeat of 2014 when she never felt connected to Romeo and Juliet, I think choosing MR is definitely a strategy but I'm not sure how it will work out long term.
In the end Ashley is going to do what is best for her (as she should). I hope I'm wrong and am surprised.
In the end Ashley is going to do what is best for her (as she should). I hope I'm wrong and am surprised.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
As far as Sweet Dreams is concerned: The original exhibition version from 2012/13/14 was better and was in no way a "lesser version of HHCC" which came later and was never as good IMO. The problem Wagner ran into with her SP version of Sweet Dreams was allowing Jeffrey Buttle to alter it too much when making it into a SP in the first place.
hwell:
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
As far as Sweet Dreams is concerned: The original exhibition version from 2012/13/14 was better and was in no way a "lesser version of HHCC" which came later and was never as good IMO. The problem Wagner ran into with her SP version of Sweet Dreams was allowing Jeffrey Buttle to alter it too much when making it into a SP in the first place.
Interesting! Thanks! I'll have to go back and watch the original.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Excellent points, all. It's smart, it's about using her abilities, and it's about magic. In her Instagram post, she wrote:
"This is my journey, and my choice. Going back to Moulin Rouge is what truly makes me happy." https://www.instagram.com/p/BZPkIbggksh/
There may be many factors at play in her choice, and she may or may not share them at some point. But it's kinda like an exercise in a class I took once. The question: Chocolate or vanilla? People would argue back and forth and try to explain why one is better. In the end, it's about making a choice, and you don't have to justify your choice with reasons. That is often a very hard thing to grasp ... but it's ultimately so freeing.
Great question. I don't have any trouble imagining Ashley bringing new emotional nuances and fresh magic to Moulin Rouge, but I don't know how she would do better than the 2015-16 jeweled white dress! And ... will she borrow Marissa's lucky dress again for HHCC? Burning questions!
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Personal taste.
I myself am more bothered by programs that use the same choreographic moves and jumps with no changes except a change of music, because to me that minimizes the importance of the music and its interpretation. But I do imagine Ashley thought hard about it ... she must have known that she'd get a ton of criticism for this choice. Just the speculation raised a ton of criticism. I think it's brave of her.
You must also have trouble believing that the top Japanese man for the past four years, who's also the reigning Olympic and World Champion, can't deliver ONE new program for the Olympic season.
This isn't an attempt or invitation to go Off Topic from the U.S. Ladies thread. To me, it's the same with Yuzuru and Ashley. They each made a choice, and they each took full responsibility.
Let me just say I'd rather watch a repeat of Ashley's MR than some new programs that are out there this year
Ashley is pretty consistent and I believe that makes her a good contender for an Olympic spot. She did not have the best season last year and we haven't seen her this year, but given her track record I think she's pretty safe if she can keep it together. And she should with these two programs. If they give her peace of mind, let it be. Being confident about your programs ticks one of the boxes a skater needs.
The criticism is coming from fans and I don't think she is bothered by it. We'll see what the judges and USFSA have to say, that's the only thing a skater should worry about it.
Karen and Mirai are currently looking like contenders for the other two spots, but it's still early in the season and we've seen them once.
I don't want to speculate over Gracie, but if she needs time to get better that is fine and let her be. If it is mental issues that she's dealing with she needs to focus on getting help and getting better. She will get better. Skating is less important right now.
Ashley is pretty consistent and I believe that makes her a good contender for an Olympic spot. She did not have the best season last year and we haven't seen her this year, but given her track record I think she's pretty safe if she can keep it together. And she should with these two programs. If they give her peace of mind, let it be. Being confident about your programs ticks one of the boxes a skater needs.
The criticism is coming from fans and I don't think she is bothered by it. We'll see what the judges and USFSA have to say, that's the only thing a skater should worry about it.
Karen and Mirai are currently looking like contenders for the other two spots, but it's still early in the season and we've seen them once.
I don't want to speculate over Gracie, but if she needs time to get better that is fine and let her be. If it is mental issues that she's dealing with she needs to focus on getting help and getting better. She will get better. Skating is less important right now.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
I think Ashley said her goal is to win an Olympic medal, and she undoubtedly went back to the two programs she feels give her the best chance to do that. It makes sense to me. She can focus on increasing technical difficulty and execution - which she must do to win a medal - and less on her interpretation, which is already strong in both programs. While it may disappoint those who follow skating closely, if she makes the team, the audience and judges will only see the end result - a (hopefully) very strong program /performance.
Most actors specialize - in drama or romantic comedy, for example - and they're often typecast (i.e., ingenue, leading lady, femme fatale, villain, etc.). Many classical musicians specialize in works of a certain period (i.e., romantic, baroque, etc.) or composer. When opera singers audition or compete, they usually use the same group of 4-5 arias each time; those arias were picked because they showcase the singer's strengths, minimize her weaknesses, and give her the best chance to win or get hired. I honestly don't see any reason why Ashley shouldn't do the same thing.
Most actors specialize - in drama or romantic comedy, for example - and they're often typecast (i.e., ingenue, leading lady, femme fatale, villain, etc.). Many classical musicians specialize in works of a certain period (i.e., romantic, baroque, etc.) or composer. When opera singers audition or compete, they usually use the same group of 4-5 arias each time; those arias were picked because they showcase the singer's strengths, minimize her weaknesses, and give her the best chance to win or get hired. I honestly don't see any reason why Ashley shouldn't do the same thing.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
I was saying that I will listen to a person who expresses themself is proper words and normal voice rather than a person using "like, ummmm, yeah" and vocal fry. (I have no desire to rewatch the video but I don't think Mirai used vocal fry - thank god.)
This has less to do with Mirai and more to do with the trend where girls will try to giggle and sound dumb because it's what they see on TV. I know what work and mental strength it takes to be a world class athlete and I wish all female skaters - who are already judged and talked about differently than male skaters - would take that step.
I won't lose any sleep over people not agreeing with this
I think it is an L.A. thing. Michelle Kwan was spacey and kind of airheaded too in her interviews. But yeah, it's what they see on tv too. Kim Kardashian is regrettably an idol to many girls and she is the most vapid person on tv. Before her was Paris Hilton. Yuck.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
Oh believe me I have complained A LOT about yuzuru repeats on this board
. His situation is worse to me then Ashley's because he's the best in the world and will almost always be in the top no matter what programs he does. I'm just so disappointed that two of the most amazing artists in the sport chose not to challenge themselves and are giving us triple repeats...skaters shouldn't even be allowed to skate a program three full seasons in a row. It's redundant and boring and I don't want to say lazy because I don't believe any of these skaters don't work hard but it's definitely the easy way out compared to skaters who push themselves to do new programs. I really hope Ashley gives more insight into why she dropped la la land after all the hype other then "it makes me happy".Do we know why Chock and Bates dropped it?
