Pairs & Dance Teams with Citizenship Issues

[kurama45]

On Myslivečková/Csolley, I think the following article from Slovakia Olympic Committee includes a quote by Lukas on Lucie's passport. Well, google translated something regarding a passport. But the translation wasn't brilliant. Someone with better Slovak language skills may be helpful!

I am sure she will have slovak citizenship soon. In article there was no info about any problems with it (Lukáš sounds very happy and does not worry about citizenship issues at all. He said now they have qualified, they will have short break, because they trained so hard all the time AND they will deal with passport for Lucie - so in my opinion she hasn´t slovak citizenship now but soon will gain it (without big problems ).

 

[nimi]

I am sure she will have slovak citizenship soon. In article there was no info about any problems with it (Lukáš sounds very happy and does not worry about citizenship issues at all. He said now they have qualified, they will have short break, because they trained so hard all the time AND they will deal with passport for Lucie - so in my opinion she hasn´t slovak citizenship now but soon will gain it (without big problems ).

Thank you kurama45 for giving us a better idea about what the article actually said!
I'm happy he sounds happy

 

[StitchMonkey]

and then the Finnish, Törn and Partanen.

But do they have citizenship.... i got lost along the way.

 

[Ice Dance]

Kuzmichova & Sinicyn are not competing as juniors either. They are competing as seniors. She has aged up. Last year, they did both juniors & seniors and went to Europeans & Worlds after Mansour & Ceska were removed from the entry list for Europeans (The reason was never disclosed). And somehow Kuzmichova & Sinicyn were given a spot at Rostelecom on the GP over a number of other teams with higher SB scores, including Mansour & Ceska. K&S have already competed at Lake Placid International and at the Autumn Classic internationally this season.

 

[Jana]

Kuzmichova & Sinicyn are not competing as juniors either. They are competing as seniors. She has aged up. Last year, they did both juniors & seniors and went to Europeans & Worlds after Mansour & Ceska were removed from the entry list for Europeans (The reason was never disclosed). And somehow Kuzmichova & Sinicyn were given a spot at Rostelecom on the GP over a number of other teams with higher SB scores, including Mansour & Ceska. K&S have already competed at Lake Placid International and at the Autumn Classic internationally this season.

It will be a fight between K&S and M&C.

K&S scores: 121.68 (Autumn Classic) and 135.40 (Lake Placid).
M&C scores: 133.76 (Nepela) and 143.44 (Nebelhorn).

 

[Alchamei]

On Myslivečková/Csolley, I think the following article from Slovakia Olympic Committee includes a quote by Lukas on Lucie's passport. Well, google translated something regarding a passport. But the translation wasn't brilliant. Someone with better Slovak language skills may be helpful!

https://www.olympic.sk/aktuality-sov/tanecny-par-mysliveckova-csolley-postupil-na-zoh

I'm Czech, so I can understand the article well although not fully, and Lukáš says that they still need to work on getting the passport or something like that. However, I think it seems like she should get it in time.

 

[Alchamei]

Kuzmichova has the citizenship. Earlier this year Sinicyn posted on Instagram a pic with Kuzmichova's new passport.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlrzOVAEWf/?taken-by=alex_sinicyn

Kuzmichova & Sinicyn are not competing as juniors either. They are competing as seniors. She has aged up. Last year, they did both juniors & seniors and went to Europeans & Worlds after Mansour & Ceska were removed from the entry list for Europeans (The reason was never disclosed). And somehow Kuzmichova & Sinicyn were given a spot at Rostelecom on the GP over a number of other teams with higher SB scores, including Mansour & Ceska. K&S have already competed at Lake Placid International and at the Autumn Classic internationally this season.

Thanks for clarifying my info about Kuzmichová/Sinicyn! Tbh, since I cheer for the skaters I find interesting, I don't take much interest in Czech skaters since I usually don't care about their skating.

It will be a fight between K&S and M&C.

K&S scores: 121.68 (Autumn Classic) and 135.40 (Lake Placid).
M&C scores: 133.76 (Nepela) and 143.44 (Nebelhorn).

M/C seem to have the edge but I'd prefer K/S to go, since they are a fresh team with potential but mainly, I don't think Mansour is getting the citizenship in time. From the article I linked it rather seems like she is trying to get the citinzenship though some loophole or to get an exception, and I don't think it will happen, they are not medal contenders.

 

[Alchamei]

But do they have citizenship.... i got lost along the way.

I didn't imply they didn't, I just listed the list of alternates for the spot, and the Finnish were the first couple without citizenship problems (Even though it's possivle the couple from Azerbajian has it, I couldn't find info).

 

[nimi]

I didn't imply they didn't, I just listed the list of alternates for the spot, and the Finnish were the first couple without citizenship problems (Even though it's possivle the couple from Azerbajian has it, I couldn't find info).

Going down the list of alternates... Even if Allison Reed won't get the citizenship, they're not the only Lithuanian team, right? There's Damuleviciute/Kizala who are still juniors (17th in JWC last season) but who could get the TES mins (or maybe they already have them, dunno) and get a Sr SD choreographed and there you have your eligible Lithuanian team, right? So I just don't see a situation where Törn/Partanen would get the spot... which is a bit of a bummer for me as a Finn.

 

[Ice Dance]

I would like to see M&C get their shot. They earned the place, and it was hard won. (As well as giving the team a shot). I do believe it was important for Czech Republic to have M&C at Nebelhorn. The two teams are relatively close, and I agree that K&S have more potential for the future. But at this point in time, M&C have the experience, and this was a VERY close competition at Nebelhorn. Currently, they have the higher ranking internationally and the higher PB. I'd be happy to see K&S prove to be the stronger team in an international head-to-head. But I don't want to see them going by default. I'd like to see the real battle.

 

[Alchamei]

I would like to see M&C get their shot. They earned the place, and it was hard won. (As well as giving the team a shot). I do believe it was important for Czech Republic to have M&C at Nebelhorn. The two teams are relatively close, and I agree that S&K have more potential for the future. But at this point in time, M&C have the experience, and this was a VERY close competition at Nebelhorn. Currently, they have the higher ranking internationally and the higher PB. I'd be happy to see K&S prove to be the stronger team in an international head-to-head. But I don't want to see them going by default. I'd like to see the real battle.

Me too, I want to see the battle, but at this point, it's possible there won't any since we don't know how close is Mansour with getting the citizenship.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Way back in April, I brought up in this thread a discussion that Robin Cousins and Kat Downes had about citizenship during the BBC commentary of the World Championships.

The discussion was mainly about Olivia Smart and Adrià Díaz, and whether Olivia would be able to get Spanish citizenship in time for the Olympics. And, since then, we have heard that she has got it.

However, I want to discuss the impact that current developments may have on Adrià.

Adrià Díaz is from Barcelona, the capital of Catalunya. On Sunday, Catalunya held a referendum on independence from Spain. Although the national government in Madrid declared the referendum illegal and tried to stop it, voting went ahead, and the result was overwhelmingly in favour of independence.

The Catalan President has said that Catalunya will declare independence in the next few days. (Personally, I expect it to happen on Friday, as that is the anniversary of the last time the Catalan Republic was proclaimed in 1934). And who knows what will happen then?

So, if Catalunya does gain independence, what impact will it have on Catalan athletes that have qualified for the Olympics being held in 4 months time?

It is highly unlikely that a Catalan National Olympic Committee could be formed, and recognised by the IOC, in such a short space of time. So...

• Would they be allowed to continue to compete for Spain?
• Would they have to compete as Independent Athletes?

In terms of figure skating, Spain has only qualified in Men's Singles, and Ice Dance. Don't worry, the Men's choice won't be affected as Javier Fernández and Javier Raya are both from Madrid, while Felipe Montoya is from Colombia (didn't realise that! Now I am wondering if he is related to former F1 driver Juan Pablo Montoya). BUT, it could affect the choice of who to send in Ice Dance.

Below are the Ice Dance couples currently competing for Spain that are age eligible, and where they are from:

1. Olivia SMART (England) / Adriá DÍAZ (Catalunya)
2. Sara HURTADO (Madrid) / Kirill KHALIAVIN (Russia)
3. Celia ROBLEDO (Madrid) / Luis FENERO (Aragon)
4. Malene NICHITA-BASQUIN (France) / Jaime GARCÍA (Madrid)

Given that only one partnership has somebody from Catalunya, it would not be surprising if the Spanish Fed took the easy way out and just don't even consider them for the slot.

Considering that the couple in question are currently the highest placed of the 4 partnerships in the ISU World Standings, it would be highly unfair if political disputes prevented them from competing in the Olympics.

I hate this rule at the Olympics where you have to be a citizen of the country you are representing. In fact, I hate that you have to represent a country in the first place. It causes too many problems, particularly in team sports.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Ice Dance]

[*]Malene NICHITA-BASQUIN (France) / Jaime GARCÍA (Madrid)

I watched Nichita-Basquin and Garcia on the JGP feed recently, and these two are a very beginning looking junior team. They won't be competitive with any of the senior teams at this stage of their career, but it is nice to see a junior dance team for Spain.

 

[SnowWhite]

Way back in April, I brought up in this thread a discussion that Robin Cousins and Kat Downes had about citizenship during the BBC commentary of the World Championships.

The discussion was mainly about Olivia Smart and Adrià Díaz, and whether Olivia would be able to get Spanish citizenship in time for the Olympics. And, since then, we have heard that she has got it.

However, I want to discuss the impact that current developments may have on Adrià.

Adrià Díaz is from Barcelona, the capital of Catalunya. On Sunday, Catalunya held a referendum on independence from Spain. Although the national government in Madrid declared the referendum illegal and tried to stop it, voting went ahead, and the result was overwhelmingly in favour of independence.

The Catalan President has said that Catalunya will declare independence in the next few days. (Personally, I expect it to happen on Friday, as that is the anniversary of the last time the Catalan Republic was proclaimed in 1934). And who knows what will happen then?

So, if Catalunya does gain independence, what impact will it have on Catalan athletes that have qualified for the Olympics being held in 4 months time?

It is highly unlikely that a Catalan National Olympic Committee could be formed, and recognised by the IOC, in such a short space of time. So...

• Would they be allowed to continue to compete for Spain?
• Would they have to compete as Independent Athletes?

In terms of figure skating, Spain has only qualified in Men's Singles, and Ice Dance. Don't worry, the Men's choice won't be affected as Javier Fernández and Javier Raya are both from Madrid, while Felipe Montoya is from Colombia (didn't realise that! Now I am wondering if he is related to former F1 driver Juan Pablo Montoya). BUT, it could affect the choice of who to send in Ice Dance.

Below are the Ice Dance couples currently competing for Spain that are age eligible, and where they are from:

1. Olivia SMART (England) / Adriá DÍAZ (Catalunya)
2. Sara HURTADO (Madrid) / Kirill KHALIAVIN (Russia)
3. Celia ROBLEDO (Madrid) / Luis FENERO (Aragon)
4. Malene NICHITA-BASQUIN (France) / Jaime GARCÍA (Madrid)

Given that only one partnership has somebody from Catalunya, it would not be surprising if the Spanish Fed took the easy way out and just don't even consider them for the slot.

Considering that the couple in question are currently the highest placed of the 4 partnerships in the ISU World Standings, it would be highly unfair if political disputes prevented them from competing in the Olympics.

I hate this rule at the Olympics where you have to be a citizen of the country you are representing. In fact, I hate that you have to represent a country in the first place. It causes too many problems, particularly in team sports.

CaroLiza_fan

International bodies won't recognize the result of the referendum considering the conditions under which it took place (many people not being able to vote do to the Spanish gov's interference, those who want to leave are probably more likely to go to the effort of voting under those conditions, so it'll be seen as possibly skewed), so unless Adria didn't want to compete for Spain anymore, there would be no problem. ETA: And I doubt ice dance gets enough attention for the gov to care where he's from, plus they'd like that he'd be competing for Spain.

And to give an example from an actually legal referendum (not a judgement on what is happening in Catalonia, but how it'll be viewed by outside parties), during the Scottish referendum on independence, Andy Murray said he'd keep representing Great Britain internationally, for at least a while, even though he ended up supporting the independence bid.

 

[nimi]

As far as the top 2 Spanish teams are concerned... From the first page of this thread:

H/K and S/D - Their real issue isn't citizenship, which apparently they would likely be able to get. Both Kirill and Olivia competed too recently for another country, so they'd have to get IOC and ISU permission to be eligible (don't know exactly what the process is).

Has anybody any idea how this IOC/ISU process is going for Olivia and/or Kirill?

IIRC, the IOC/ISU time limit is 3 years, so basically international competitions after Jan 2015 are the problem. Looking at their isuresults,
Monko/Khaliavin last competed internationally in the 2015 fall season (Skate Canada 2015) whereas Smart/Buckland had their last competition in March 2015 (Worlds).

 

[tennisguy]

Diaz wouldn't lose his Spanish citizenship just because Catalonia separated from Spain. All Catalonians would have the option to maintain their Spanish citizenship or give it up in favour of Catalonian citizenship. In addition, it seems unlikely that Catalonia would gain wide international recognition, and could end up like many other independent countries that exist only in their own territory and that any international travel would require a Spanish passport.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

International bodies won't recognize the result of the referendum considering the conditions under which it took place (many people not being able to vote do to the Spanish gov's interference, those who want to leave are probably more likely to go to the effort of voting under those conditions, so it'll be seen as possibly skewed), so unless Adria didn't want to compete for Spain anymore, there would be no problem. ETA: And I doubt ice dance gets enough attention for the gov to care where he's from, plus they'd like that he'd be competing for Spain.

And to give an example from an actually legal referendum (not a judgement on what is happening in Catalonia, but how it'll be viewed by outside parties), during the Scottish referendum on independence, Andy Murray said he'd keep representing Great Britain internationally, for at least a while, even though he ended up supporting the independence bid.

Diaz wouldn't lose his Spanish citizenship just because Catalonia separated from Spain. All Catalonians would have the option to maintain their Spanish citizenship or give it up in favour of Catalonian citizenship. In addition, it seems unlikely that Catalonia would gain wide international recognition, and could end up like many other independent countries that exist only in their own territory and that any international travel would require a Spanish passport.

Thanks for the replies guys.

It has been so long since somewhere which has a high profile gained independence from another country – as opposed to a country splitting up completely (e.g. the USSR; Yugoslavia), or somewhere joining another country (e.g. East Germany joining West Germany; the Netherlands Antilles joining the Netherlands; the Crimea joining Russia) – that I wasn't sure how it would work.

I agree that the most likely scenario is what you both say – Catalunya will declare independence and rule itself de facto, but most of the world will not recognise it. There's quite a few places like this as it is – Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, South Ossetia, Trans-Nistria.

But, the difference with this case is that it is involves a region that contains one of the major cities of the world. And it is claiming independence from a high profile country.

After seeing what happened on Sunday, who knows how Spain will react?

Spain could make things extremely difficult for people from Catalunya. Or, they may not. We just don't know. Which is why I brought it up here.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[SnowWhite]

Thanks for the replies guys.

It has been so long since somewhere which has a high profile gained independence from another country – as opposed to a country splitting up completely (e.g. the USSR; Yugoslavia), or somewhere joining another country (e.g. East Germany joining West Germany; the Netherlands Antilles joining the Netherlands; the Crimea joining Russia) – that I wasn't sure how it would work.

I agree that the most likely scenario is what you both say – Catalunya will declare independence and rule itself de facto, but most of the world will not recognise it. There's quite a few places like this as it is – Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, South Ossetia, Trans-Nistria.

But, the difference with this case is that it is involves a region that contains one of the major cities of the world. And it is claiming independence from a high profile country.

After seeing what happened on Sunday, who knows how Spain will react?

Spain could make things extremely difficult for people from Catalunya. Or, they may not. We just don't know. Which is why I brought it up here.

CaroLiza_fan

What's going to happen is that the federal government is going to take over the regional government. Which is going to go over, really badly.

But I really do think the only issue would be if Adria doesn't want to skate for Spain. Otherwise, having someone from the region compete for Spain at the Olympics is great optics for the Spanish leaders.

 

[Andrea82]

Interview with Myslivečková and Csölley by a Slovak newspaper.

If google translate worked well, in the last paragraph they say they expect Lucie's citizenship "within days"

https://sport.pravda.sk/zoh-2018/cl...stastim-lukas-olympiada-je-najkrajsia-odmena/

 

[kurama45]

Interview with Myslivečková and Csölley by a Slovak newspaper.

If google translate worked well, in the last paragraph they say they expect Lucie's citizenship "within days"

Google translate is right .