2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

[gmyers]

They were 9th in the World, 4th at Europeans, and medaled in both GPs in 2015-16 under Zoueva.

Last year, no matter which way you slice it, they dropped in everything. A coach is a good thing.

I was starting at 2014 right up until the formal breakup. It can’t be considered a success story.

 

[LittleLotte29]

Seeing as how Sinitsina & Katsalapov's technical score tanked when they left Zoueva, it seems to me that she & her team deserve more credit.

I'm glad S&K have a consistent coach again. They clearly need one. Settling down and having a consistent training environment can only help in my opinion.

Oh, of course, it's much more helpful for any team (or at least 99%) to have a coach than not to have a coach, but IMO Zoueva wasn't the best choice for them. Don't get me wrong, she's wonderful in terms of musicality and creativity but it usually works only with pairs that have strong technical basis. I believe both Vika and NIK have good technique separately but she just didn't manage to gell them.

I mean, all the programs she designed for them were wonderful, particularly the SDs. Elegant, sophisticated, intricate. They simply weren't able to skate it cleanly and with ease as they didn't feel technically confident. Sorry, Marina, you're great and I love you, but instead of working on their beauty, musicality, lines and choreo, you should have worked on their edges, knees, twizzels and lifts, afterwards think about the right package.
That's the way, IMO of course. Technique first, the rest will come in time.

Just saying.

 

[Ice Dance]

Well, Zhulin may feel free to tackle all the things you thought were lacking. I'm sure they did work on those aspects before, but they do still need development.

S&K are no longer a brand new team together. They should be able to progress further now. They have the pieces.

My question is . . . do you see this team sticking together and sticking with a coach four more years for the long haul?

 

[LittleLotte29]

Well, Zhulin may feel free to tackle all the things you thought were lacking. I'm sure they did work on those aspects before, but they do still need development.

S&K are no longer a brand new team together. They should be able to progress further now. They have the pieces.

My question is . . . do you see this team sticking together and sticking with a coach four more years for the long haul?

Well, Zhulin may feel free to tackle all the things you thought were lacking. I'm sure they did work on those aspects before, but they do still need development.

S&K are no longer a brand new team together. They should be able to progress further now. They have the pieces.

My question is . . . do you see this team sticking together and sticking with a coach four more years for the long haul?

Well, this is the point. They are no longer a brand new team and now should be the point of polishing their programs, introducing intricate transistions and working on beauty of their movements. And instead of it - Zhulin and Tchaikovskaya are reworking their technique, improving twizzles and forcing Nikita to get back into shape.
I'm not implying that Marina is a bad coach. I love most of her couples, I like her ideas, her creativity, her feeling of music. I think she's gorgeous coach who is totally able to lead their teams to the world podium. But she's clearly not technical. And they desperately need good technical coach (which Zhulin is, whatever one may think about his programs).

They indeed have the pieces as they both are extremely talented. Yet, if they don't have strong basis, even the most wonderful programs (waltz, blues, Bocelli and Tango were wonderful programs, no diggity) will be performed poorly.

I like their new programs. They are easier which is good as they need quite a few clean strong performances, not the trembling ones.
As for their future, we'll see. I personally hope for they either finding good choreographer and staying with Zhulin or switching to some Western coach. I'd like them the to come back to Marina as I liked her design for this pair a lot.

 

[Mattieu]

I'd like them the to come back to Marina as I liked her design for this pair a lot.

The door is well and truly closed on Marina as their coach. She works in a rink owned by the Shibs parents, and they definitely would not have Nikita back after what took place last year.

 

[LittleLotte29]

The door is well and truly closed on Marina as their coach. She works in a rink owned by the Shibs parents, and they definitely would not have Nikita back after what took place last year.

I suppose the door is closed for good (but let me dream ) but what exactly happened last year? Was Marina paying too much attention to Russians, was Nikita picking quarrels (cause I hardly believe this abusing-Vika-story, as I don't want to think that Marina's team and skaters would be all so cruel to send a poor, helpless girl together with her abusive partner halfway across the world instead of informing police/psychiatrist/parents).

 

[Mattieu]

I suppose the door is closed for good (but let me dream ) but what exactly happened last year? Was Marina paying too much attention to Russians, was Nikita picking quarrels (cause I hardly believe this abusing-Vika-story, as I don't want to think that Marina's team and skaters would be all so cruel to send a poor, helpless girl together with her abusive partner halfway across the world instead of informing police/psychiatrist/parents).

Sadly, the abuse story is true, confirmed by too many people directly in the know.
Russian coaches often turn a blind eye to such behaviour, trying to sort it out themselves, but the American parents were not like that and wanted to call the police.

 

[LittleLotte29]

Russian coaches often turn a blind eye to such behaviour, trying to sort it out themselves, but the American parents were not like that and wanted to call the police.

If you say so. For me this story remains illogical and pretty much offensive towards all the people allegedly involved. Shibs' parents had thousands of reasons to get rid of Viktoria and Nikita and if the true reason was hiding a crime, well, it doesn't put them in a good light.
Plus, is Marina really a Russian coach?

 

[bramweld]

If you say so. For me this story remains illogical and pretty much offensive towards all the people allegedly involved. Shibs' parents had thousands of reasons to get rid of Viktoria and Nikita and if the true reason was hiding a crime, well, it doesn't put them in a good light.
Plus, is Marina really a Russian coach?

One doesn't have to look past how Nikita treated Vika during the SD at test skates to see how volatile he can be if something isn't going right. If you take a look at the documentary made a couple seasons ago with Marina you also see the same behaviour.
He needs to go to anger management therapy, otherwise this might hurt his reputation greatly in the future. I am almost certain that his anger issues caused the souring of relations between himself and EI.

The issue is as said before, in Russian circles this sort of behaviour tends to be tolerated especially if the man is highly regarded. But IMHO, I find Katsalapov a one trick pony. He is egocentric and only concerned really with himself on the ice. He needs to be the center of attention in every pair. He's all about speed and showing off which makes watching both his SD and FD this year rather dull TBH. If it were not for the disrespectful way in whch he dismissed his former partner this new pairing of S/K would be little more than average. There are many more interesting pairs on the verge of making a breakthrough in Russia who also have a lot more potential, IMHO. .

 

[moon]

That is what made I/K so captivating. Elena was as much of a Diva as Nikita which made their performances so electric. Unfortunately, with both partners constantly vying for attention it made for epic battles, manipulations and betrayals by both of them. I would also add that those kind of personalities are hard to accommodate in the North America training system especially with multiple top teams. Teams are generally seen and treated as equals and are expected to adhere to all rules concerning pre organized training times, specified coaches and a rigorous off ice schedule. "Divas" though wonderful to observe are very much, all about me and dont tell me what to do. The Russian school appears to be able to accommodate that personality by usually only having one special couple per training center and having everything revolve around them. Kustorova couldnt handle it anymore and I hope Zhulin is a better disciplinarian.

 

[gmyers]

One doesn't have to look past how Nikita treated Vika during the SD at test skates to see how volatile he can be if something isn't going right. If you take a look at the documentary made a couple seasons ago with Marina you also see the same behaviour.
He needs to go to anger management therapy, otherwise this might hurt his reputation greatly in the future. I am almost certain that his anger issues caused the souring of relations between himself and EI.

The issue is as said before, in Russian circles this sort of behaviour tends to be tolerated especially if the man is highly regarded. But IMHO, I find Katsalapov a one trick pony. He is egocentric and only concerned really with himself on the ice. He needs to be the center of attention in every pair. He's all about speed and showing off which makes watching both his SD and FD this year rather dull TBH. If it were not for the disrespectful way in whch he dismissed his former partner this new pairing of S/K would be little more than average. There are many more interesting pairs on the verge of making a breakthrough in Russia who also have a lot more potential, IMHO. .

There is the case of Berezhnaya being rescued by Moskvina.

The teams with potential probably won’t amount to anything because they won’t be sent to North America like France does with its young teams of potential. France knows that while it has great and famous legendary coaches all their teams with potential must be sent outside of France and in the case of p/c and l/LG to Dubreuil.

 

[bramweld]

There is the case of Berezhnaya being rescued by Moskvina.

The teams with potential probably won’t amount to anything because they won’t be sent to North America like France does with its young teams of potential. France knows that while it has great and famous legendary coaches all their teams wirh potential must be sent outside of France and in the case of p/c and another team to Dubreuil.

It's rather sad actually because I find Arina and Maxim so very refreshing.

 

[LittleLotte29]

One doesn't have to look past how Nikita treated Vika during the SD at test skates to see how volatile he can be if something isn't going right. If you take a look at the documentary made a couple seasons ago with Marina you also see the same behaviour.
He needs to go to anger management therapy, otherwise this might hurt his reputation greatly in the future. I am almost certain that his anger issues caused the souring of relations between himself and EI.

The issue is as said before, in Russian circles this sort of behaviour tends to be tolerated especially if the man is highly regarded. But IMHO, I find Katsalapov a one trick pony. He is egocentric and only concerned really with himself on the ice. He needs to be the center of attention in every pair. He's all about speed and showing off which makes watching both his SD and FD this year rather dull TBH. If it were not for the disrespectful way in whch he dismissed his former partner this new pairing of S/K would be little more than average. There are many more interesting pairs on the verge of making a breakthrough in Russia who also have a lot more potential, IMHO. .

Jesus... One doesn't need telenovela.

So, I don't intend to play his lawyer or something. I don't know this guy and there is hardly any chance of meeting him personally.
And yes, of course, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to find out that Nikita is an emotional guy what makes every cooperation difficult. I am highly emotional person myself and even difficult to work with when I know that I know. I generally hate cooperating and can't stand staying in someone's shadow. And, cross my heart, I have never ever abused anyone.
People tend to have weird conclusions, IMO of course. As for test skate - the only thing that we've seen was that she lost her balance and thus they probably lost some speed, so they slowed down for a moment, then she held his hands and made some gestures which could have meant "OK, calm down", "it's not my fault" as well as "one, two, three, now the right beat". He basically did nothing, no peculiar look on his face, no meaningful movements. Nothing. She looked a bit nervous afterwards, true, but HOW do you know it was because of him?
HOW do you know that he was mad at her?
As for documentary - it shows that they are arguing sometimes, that he's highly emotional, has a dominant personality and probably isn't the most likeable person on the world, she, on the contrary, is reserved, calm, and undoubtedly shy, but how on earth it implies (let alone presents) that he's a bad, bad, abusive man, I really don't know. Finally, as for Russian circles, where are they in Canton? There are hardly any Russians in her team (according to the list on her school's website, there is only Epstein who also has coached in the US for some good years now), Marina has lived in the US for 30 years now, she wasn't even coach in the USSR, merely choreographer and mostly for one pair only. She doesn't coach any notable teams from Russia and I suppose she doesn't coach any teams from Russia at all. So who created those Russian circles? American parents?

Stolbova and Klimov few years ago were also supposed to have a toxic relationship. Now they are not, cause she showed some attention instead of being indifferent and uncaring when he stopped the program in order to tighten the lace, Bravo, Ksenia, now you are a normal human being.
Most of us will never meet those skaters. Never. So why do you create some theories about their behaviour? Based on what? Don't get me wrong, I simply love gossiping, but there is a huge difference between gossiping and actually hating people due to some weird conclusions that one made basically out of the blue.

Sorry if I offended anyone. It was not what I meant to do. I simply find it ludicrous that we rather discuss Nikita's alleged behaviour than his actual performance on the ice.

That is what made I/K so captivating. Elena was as much of a Diva as Nikita which made their performances so electric. Unfortunately, with both partners constantly vying for attention it made for epic battles, manipulations and betrayals by both of them. I would also add that those kind of personalities are hard to accommodate in the North America training system especially with multiple top teams. Teams are generally seen and treated as equals and are expected to adhere to all rules concerning pre organized training times, specified coaches and a rigorous off ice schedule. "Divas" though wonderful to observe are very much, all about me and dont tell me what to do. The Russian school appears to be able to accommodate that personality by usually only having one special couple per training center and having everything revolve around them. Kustorova couldnt handle it anymore and I hope Zhulin is a better disciplinarian.

Very true. Hope so, too.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Nikita "the criminal" persona gets blown out of proportion here sometimes, so you might not even want to engage. Also, it's not like people don't go out of their way here to crap on other skaters so they can feel better about their favorites not doing well. I guess you do what you gotta do.

I'm more interested to see how people will react about the russians competing this weekend, it's either going to be "oh god, they didn't even manage to medal in their own home" or "oh god, the competition was absolutely homecooked". We'll see how the three russian teams will fare against one another, since we have the official top 2 here, plus P/M who are trying to challenge for... something this season? Undecided yet how far they can go.

 

[bramweld]

You know all this is old news, so let's move on. Let's look forward to COR this weekend. I think it's gonna be tight I can't say who will out. I believe just because of their music choices the Shibs should win the SD but, Paradise by Coldplay is such an underwhelming piece of music. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing practice footage tomorrow. I hope at the very least that Bobs has changed her costume it makes her look somewhat top heavy with all those ruffles. Also, I hope some dear friend will whisper in her ears that please she needs to tape down her undergarments. When she does that lift at the end of the routine its all sorts of scary and I am a woman.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Just FYI, it seems both Vika and Nikita are still friends with the Shibs as they like and comment on each other's Instagram accounts, so let's not try to defuse an alleged rumor that you don't like by adding your own rumor that you just made up in this thread to deflect attention towards parents of a competing team in the hopes of making them out to be the villains in the story.

 

[Kittosuni]

You know all this is old news, so let's move on. Let's look forward to COR this weekend. I think it's gonna be tight I can't say who will out. I believe just because of their music choices the Shibs should win the SD but, Paradise by Coldplay is such an underwhelming piece of music. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing practice footage tomorrow. I hope at the very least that Bobs has changed her costume it makes her look somewhat top heavy with all those ruffles. Also, I hope some dear friend will whisper in her ears that please she needs to tape down her undergarments. When she does that lift at the end of the routine its all sorts of scary and I am a woman.

Bobrova has a small neck, forward head so I dont know why they chose that costume. The color is great but the neckline is bad. This also highlight her bad posture. She needs a v-neck neckline

 

[LittleLotte29]

Just FYI, it seems both Vika and Nikita are still friends with the Shibs as they like and comment on each other's Instagram accounts, so let's not try to defuse an alleged rumor that you don't like by adding your own rumor that you just made up in this thread to deflect attention towards parents of a competing team in the hopes of making them out to be the villains in the story.

I am not making up any rumors. I'm just saying that ice rink officials (who are apparently Shibs' parents), as well as Marina, her team, other skaters had thousands of reasons to get rid of Viktoria and Nikita. Very probably, we'll never find the true one.

And why, for God's sake, shall I HOPE to make Shibs and their parents villains in the story? What for?

Bobrova has a small neck, forward head so I dont know why they chose that costume. The color is great but the neckline is bad. This also highlight her bad posture. She needs a v-neck neckline

Well, at least it really looks like a ballroom latino costume.

 

[Kittosuni]

Well, at least it really looks like a ballroom latino costume.

Opps sorry I was referring to her FD dress

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I’m coming into this conversation way too late, but what is this “Nikita is abusing Victoria” thing? What happened at what rink?


Wow, the Shibs must be really rich and well-connected with important people. Parents owning a rink and them being usfsa favorites. Is that why they’re so politically correct and stale in their interviews, they can’t really SAY anything?