2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating | Page 118 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

My personal opinion? It's because skating is such an expensive sport that is payed for by the family, not the government for higher level training. Russia has more top-level skaters in part because more people can afford to participate. More US skaters quit because of the expense, although that's definitely not the only reason.
 
My personal opinion? It's because skating is such an expensive sport that is payed for by the family, not the government for higher level training. Russia has more top-level skaters in part because more people can afford to participate. More US skaters quit because of the expense, although that's definitely not the only reason.

Completely TRUE!!!! In my case, it was the expense that made my father pull me from skating. I was a talented singer as well and he finally made me choose between the two activities. I know there are several skaters who are talented in more than one area. In most cases, parents will choose the activity that has a longer "Shelf Life." Unless you're Carolina Kostner, you're career as a competitive skater is over by your 30th birthday. In fact, I think Maria Butyrskaya is still the oldest world champion in history and she was 26 when she won.

Look at Yuna Kim. She's an Olympic Champion, A 2 time World Champion, 3 time Grand Prix Final Champion, and the Champion of her Country throughout her entire senior career. That's a Hall Of Fame career all before her 30th Birthday.
 
We should make it clear that no one ever NEEDS to binge or purge. Eating disorders are not based on logic, they are based on an unresolved psychological issue. We don't know what sort of eating disorder she has, so it's not helpful to say she was binging and purging if she hasn't said that. We don't know her, so we can't speculate on what she's going through.
Do you think Gracie would have developed any of those problems had she not been in Figure Skating? I don't. There may have been a tendency toward them, but pursuing fs was the precipitating cause imo.
 
Evegnia should just give it up already and skate a Charlie Chaplin program. She'd be great and people would go nuts over it. At the beginning of her new LP, which I had never seen before, I turned to Mr. Stella Luna and said: "Surely they wouldn't be tacky enough to end it with a train sound, would they?" And they did. Girl's got a future in soap opera acting when this figure skating thing ends.

And shout out to Mr. Stella Luna, who subscribed to the Olympic channel for me.

Love this comment!!
She is unstoppable, I'll give her that... Almost as though her skill is beyond effort or memory. I am torn between watching her feet and legs produce one jump after another and wincing at flailing windmill arms and exaggerated facial expressions, tanos notwithstanding. But her skill is undeniable though her FS here reminds me why she is not my favorite..
 
My personal opinion? It's because skating is such an expensive sport that is payed for by the family, not the government for higher level training. Russia has more top-level skaters in part because more people can afford to participate. More US skaters quit because of the expense, although that's definitely not the only reason.

I definitely think this is a contributing factor, but if you compare US ladies to the US men, it's obvious that there is a level of technical depth in the men (especially looking at the current crop of juniors) that just isn't there for the women. Are coaches unable to teach effective jump technique for the female body? I doubt it's something that simple - but ultimately underrotations are the undoing of US ladies as a whole, and have been ever since IJS started paying attention to them.
 
Do you think Gracie would have developed any of those problems had she not been in Figure Skating? I don't. There may have been a tendency toward them, but pursuing fs was the precipitating cause imo.

This is a difficult question....As a former professional dancer, I can tell you first hand that if she had gone into dance, the same thing would have happened. When I was singing, if I felt fat or uncomfortable, I could wear a baggy sweater, or even a big untucked shirt and nobody would have thought twice. In dance it was a different story. We were not allowed to wear baggy clothing when we did an "All-out" run through of a dance. I think that's why so many dancers have eating disorders. The pressure is constant and when you're on tour or in a big show, there are producer's who demand that you are in perfect shape. It can be very overwhelming.
 
If he'll work with her, Mirai needs to go train with Mishin until a few weeks before nationals. Unless there is an unknown surprise waiting in the wings, the Olympic team will be Chen/Bell/Wagner. I so wanted Mirai to be in that group, but even when she has done her best in recent years and this year, it really has been nowhere near Olympic calibre. She seems to have given it a good try, but sometimes that is not enough. It just seems unlikely that there will be a significant change before nationals.
 
Mrrice, sounds like you've done so many interesting things! Dancing, singing, skating... what else?! :agree:
 
I think the US should beg Michelle Kwan to come back. A four triple and two double axel free skate from Michelle would probably podium at Nationals.
 
I could see starr totally being on the 2022 oly team but not 2018. There's Ashley, Karen, Mirai and mariah who are at the moment, better/more mature skaters than her. She has a lot of potential and I woud love to see that grow.
 
I don't think it matters. Unless something drastic changes, none of our women will go into Nationals and be able to make the team without a top 3 finish. Not one has an impressive body of work when factoring in both good and bad finishes.

This is so true. A month ago it seemed they were making such a big deal about this "body of work" rule and everybody was going crazy debating what it meant for the ladies heading towards nationals but when all is said and done no matter how the rule ends up being worded there isn't a single lady that could possibly argue it :laugh:

Ashley had a rather poor season last year and seems on the downturn. It should no longer apply to her as her best was two seasons ago and that shouldn't mean much right now. Unless she starts the GP performing as she did two seasons ago she could possibly argue the last one was a hiccup and she's back on track but it would take a bit of storytelling.
Had Karen continued performing as she did at last years worlds without missing a step perhaps it could have applied to her. But she's been struggling and that 4th place almost seems as ancient as Ashley's world silver.
The other ladies have no leg to stand on
 
Mrrice, sounds like you've done so many interesting things! Dancing, singing, skating... what else?! :agree:

Thanks Spirals. To me, the most interesting thing about my career was how long it lasted. I was very fortunate to have traveled the world and I've been blessed to have met some very interesting people. I'm actually glad that my Father made me choose because even as a dancer, your career as a "Performer" is relatively short. Jennifer Lopez is getting close to 50 and I think she's still a great dancer. However, I doubt she'd be selected for the Bloshoi or New York City Ballet Companies. This is why it's so important for these young skaters to get their educations no matter how long it takes. I entered college in my 20's way back in the early 90's so it's never too late.
 
I think the US should beg Michelle Kwan to come back. A four triple and two double axel free skate from Michelle would probably podium at Nationals.

If they score her like they scored Kostner this weekend, it should be no problem.
 
If that happens, I hope it serves as a wake up call for the USFSA. We're a strong and wealthy country and there's simply no reason that we haven't had a World Champion since Kimmie in 2006!!!! Even then, most people thought it was a fluke. :drama:

Maybe - but I'm not convinced that USFS is properly woken up by only having one pairs team at the Olympics. We'll see.

Considering that Arakawa and Slutskaya weren't there and Cohen was probably going to made her typical mistakes, I didn't think that Kimmie winning with a great skate was out of the question. I was a bit surprised that Fumie didn't rise as much to the occasion, though.
 
I think Dave Lease of the Skating Lesson said it best at this point whoever finishes top 3 at Nationals should go because nobody is looking good at this point in the season and their are no real contenders for the podium at the Olympics.
 
I've never been a huge fan of Wagner's skating, but why are people saying she's on a downturn? Because of her performance at Worlds? We really haven't seen her this year. To be fair to Karen, she's only done B events so far. Many were raving about Mirai up until this weekend because of her performances at such events and that got her nowhere at COR. I'll wait to see Karen this coming week in Canada to judge how she is doing so far this year.
 
Caroline has skated well a few times at Nationals in recent years and couldn't get on the podium, so it would have to be a very poorly skated event for that to happen. It's not out of the question, but she gets really low PCS and hardly any GOE for her clean jumps. The top contenders would have to each have several falls to be caught by Caroline.

I know. I was just revealing a *not implausible* scenario that would likely ensure that the top 3 do NOT go to the Olympics.

I've never been a huge fan of Wagner's skating, but why are people saying she's on a downturn? Because of her performance at Worlds? We really haven't seen her this year. To be fair to Karen, she's only done B events so far. Many were raving about Mirai up until this weekend because of her performances at such events and that got her nowhere at COR. I'll wait to see Karen this coming week in Canada to judge how she is doing so far this year.

It's true that it's early, and Wagner and Chen have yet to debut. That said, Wagner CLEARLY entered a slump last season that she's yet to get out of. She had her worst GP career finish, missed GPF for the first time in years, somewhat bounced back at Nationals (but even with Gold out of the picture, couldn't clinch the win)...and then sub-par again at Worlds. Last season was NOT her year at all. :noshake:

We shall see soon enough whether she can turn this around or not.
 
Considering that Arakawa and Slutskaya weren't there and Cohen was probably going to made her typical mistakes, I didn't think that Kimmie winning with a great skate was out of the question. I was a bit surprised that Fumie didn't rise as much to the occasion, though.

I think that was a bigger upset than Sarah Hughes winning SLC Gold, to be honest. Literally came out of nowhere. No precedent.
 
THe problem is not money. The problem is we are now a nation that produces participants and not competitors. It starts very early and it will take a long time to change. I'll explain.

THere is a huge difference between ladies and men's skating. With men's you can outscore people by learning quads. You can't do that in ladies skating. Or at least women don't do that. Therefore, they learn their triples and then they immediately start learning how to be more artistic because that's what gets you on top of the US podium. So many politics keep potential ladies from even getting close to the podium. So we are stuck with a few good skaters that aren't really challenged at the top because ladies that could more technically proficient are artificially downplayed by the tech panel.

I've followed younger skaters for years. At Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, and Junior. I find at Juvenile there's more competition. No one is allowed to skate with higher than a 2A so girl's field is very deep at this level. Club competitions need qualifying rounds to narrow the fields down. There are always large amounts of girls to compete against at club competition. So by nationals, you are seeing very polished girls who have deliberately developed components and spins and have the mental game needed to compete.

After that the field gets smaller. Most kids will never manage a 2A, so they drop out or just skate occasionally for fun. The ones that do win are the ones that consistently land their basic triples the most. Our tech controllers at both club and national qualifying comps are lax, so many girls get by with underrotations that would never fly internationally. By juniors you wind up with two types of winners, the ones that skate clean or the ones that are the most artistic. It's only recently that triple triples seem to be a priority for some coaches. But unfortunately, that's not enough. Audrey Shin is super talented, but her under rotations are terrible. She often loses at domestic competitions because she can't rotate the jumps. Naturally, internationally that means she got hammered by the tech panel there. However, she is a second highest scoring junior lady domestically! Hannah, how outscored her in Asian open has only gotten a 152 to Audrey's 162.

There are so many problems, but I feel like many of them could be solved by a few moves.

1. Better tech controllers.

Last year, watching Brynne at Skate Detroit I saw underrotations on all of her jumps, but she didn't get called on any of them. Internationally, she got called. At the very least, at monitored competitions the tech controllers need to be at international level harshness. The < have to stop.

2. More serious competition.

Especially for Novice and Juniors, where most girls have move on. Here is when you have small competitions where it's obvious that one girl is going to win, no question. It's not because she's super talented, but because she just has the highest technical content so no one else can compete against her. So it's like winning by default. Weak competitions make weak competitors. Girl's like this will win despite being inconsistent, having falls, poor spins, or underrotations. I think US figure skating needs to make more of an effort to get novice and junior skaters in competitors with girls at their technical level. There are the monitored competitions like Skate Detroit and GF. However, I think if there was some sort of incentive more higher level ladies would compete.

For example, I would require all ladies to skate at least 3 monitored competitions to go to international competitions. Include novices in this equation. Tell them that the highest scoring 5 of each level will qualify to be sent either to the JGP or smaller international comps for juniors and novices. Kids go nuts for their Team USA jacket, so this is a definite draw. Watching Bradie was a perfect case study. She competed in three competitions from May to August. She not only won each of them, but did it with tough competition in Philly Intl. I like that method of choosing for SA and think it should be employed for all international comps that USFS can select their skaters for.

3. Do a qualifying competition for all JGP participants.

I know I just suggested an average of competitions for JGP slots, but bare with me. I feel like there needs to be one competition that puts a lot of pressure on these girls early. Like a nationals but earlier. I feel like often JGP competitors are fully prepared. If you look at Emily on the JGP and then at Junior nationals, you see a vastly improved skater. If they knew by August 7th, there was a qualifying competition, that 15 girls would be there vying for just 7 slots, that would really up the game. I already see a lot of jumping talent already. It's mostly training them to land them every time. That's not going to happen if there isn't something to lose. If you had to go to three qualifying competitions and score high and then this competition and basically win, that I feel would push girls to develop more competitive skills.

4. Send ladies to more difficult international competitions.

Last year, I thought it was a big step forward to send high level juniors to international comps. However, I think they were all easy comps. It's good to get their feet wet, but they needed more. They needed to see that they aren't really competitive with other ladies internationally. We need to send girls to competitions where we know there will be Russians, Japanese, and Koreans competing. US girls aren't the best, but they are better than most of the world. Sending them to some competitions is the same as giving them a participation trophy in a JGP event. The have to be challenged and want to rise to the occasion.

I did a search and found that they are monitoring girls from lower levels early. They send in regular reports and give suggestions. But you can't micromanage a girl into becoming a good competitor. Being a good competitor comes from learning how to compete. Knowing that there are ladies around you that are just as good if not better and having the mind set not only not let that phase you but also the burning desire to do you best to beat them anyway. And then the mental coolness to nail those programs in spite of the nerves, pressure, and intensity of competition.

I think what made Nathan such a good competitor is because as a junior he didn't have a consistent 3A or Quads, so he needed to work on his components and consistency with the elements that he did have. It's what are ladies have to learn as children if they ever want to win as adults.


Sorry for being so long winded. Yikes...
 
^^^^ Spectacular and completely true!!! Bravo....:bow:

My Ballet teacher was from Russia and she had high expectations for her students from the minute we walked into her studio. We had requirements to move to a higher level and there were classes that had 6th grade students and high school students dancing together. I remember having to do switch leaps, triple pirouette's and fouette's before we could move up to the senior level. Now, it goes by attendance. All you need to do is show up for a certain amount of classes and you automatically "Graduate" to the next level. IMO, it serves no purpose to tell a dancer who can't do a double pirouette that they're advance just because they're over 18. They get a rude awakening when they move to a big city and can't keep up.

I was a fairly decent dancer but, when we got Russia....I had NEVER seen so many strong Male Dancer's. I was used to being a room full of Prima's but holy cow....The Russian Men were the best I had ever seen. It's different now but, when I started in the early 80's, The US Men did hip hop and that's about it.
 
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