I agree with the Skating Lesson. Japan has so many good ladies they need that 3rd spot way more then the US does from what i've seen so far. The lack of depth and quality skaters with US ladies is getting near what it was a decade ago.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
I agree with the Skating Lesson. Japan has so many good ladies they need that 3rd spot way more then the US does from what i've seen so far. The lack of depth and quality skaters with US ladies is getting near what it was a decade ago.
I'll try to avoid rushing to early conclusions, but can't say it's been exactly encouraging so far. Let's see what Chen and Wagner bring to the table first. I do think we may be soon staring at a 2008 situation though and it's not immediately clear to me who can fill the shoes of those who choose to leave post-2018 Olympics. I think this makes the talk of USFS system changes/overhauls very relevant to our discussion. I have no answers myself, but observing overseas couldn't hurt.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
I agree on jumps 1 and 2, those were pretty harsh and some panels might not have called them. The final one I think was UR, at least moreso than the 3A.
On the difficulty - This stands true for senior ladies currently. But juniors are attempting more challenging programs.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
So, is Ashley keeping the exact same music cuts and choreography for MR ?
I hope Karen has enough time to get her new program in order!!
Oh, and Amber Glenn is the “replacement” at cup of China.
I hope Karen has enough time to get her new program in order!!
Oh, and Amber Glenn is the “replacement” at cup of China.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
I hope Ashley gets a new dress for MR. I wasn't a huge fan of either...
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I believe some of our pairs have taken lessons from Mozer over the summer. Sending some of our promising juniors to Eteri or some Japanese coaches?
So, is Ashley keeping the exact same music cuts and choreography for MR ?
I hope Karen has enough time to get her new program in order!!
Oh, and Amber Glenn is the “replacement” at cup of China.
Yayyyy I love Amber Glenn!!! But what's this about Karen getting a new program???
You're not giving the US men anywhere near enough credit. In addition to Nathan, we have the reigning Junior Worlds champion in Vincent, plus 3 men qualifying for JGPF this season.
I keep hearing it mentioned how it's crazy that the US has 3 spots and Japan only has 2. I agree that yes, it's really messed up that Japan cannot have 3 spots, as they have a lot of talent and depth in the ladies field. Perhaps there should be something in the rule book to account for situations like this?
What people seem to be forgetting is that Canada also has 3 spots. Yes of course Osmond and Daleman deserve to be at the Olympics, but does Canada really need 3 spots? I'm sure the 3rd spot will probably go to Alaine, who is also a good skater. But other then those 3 ladies skaters who else does Canada have? The US ladies field still has way more depth than Canada's so I don't see why there's all this whining about the US ladies undeservedly having 3 spots over Japan. Also at the time of worlds the Japanese team was weakened, they got really unlucky with Satako getting injured and Rika Hongo also not skating so well anymore (I think she was injured too?). But Wakaba, who is doing well now, did not step up. Karen Chen did step up. That's what is exciting about our sport, things can change unexpectedly.
Also, Mirai and Mariah's placements at the GP look bad, but score wise they did alright. Mariah technically got a GP Silver Medal last year with a score only a few points higher. I think Mirai got some unfair UR calls, and without them she would have been pretty close in score to Mariah. How will USFSA decide between them if they continue this pattern? Mirai beat Mariah earlier this season and then Mirai did well at Japan Open with a FS score higher than what Mariah has gotten all season. Mirai has also beaten Karen Chen twice this season. But here at the GP Mirai got beaten. I get the feeling NHK will not provide that much more clarity, but I hope Mirai can skate to her full potential there and stop causing USFSA to doubt her, because she is truly talented and in the best shape of her life. If she decisively beats Mariah there, I think she will have the better chance to be put on the Olympic team heading into nationals. Or course she would need to do well there as well.... But even after this 9th place finish I still think the Olympic spot is completely open for the taking as we don't really have any true locks (if Ashley does well on GP this could change) .
Chen issued this tweet a few days ago regarding change in her FS.
https://twitter.com/karebearsk8/status/920367985318957056
UPDATE:
"It's time to take a risk and trust my instincts."
FS
Music: Slow Dancing in the Big City
Choreographer:
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Oh, awesome, thanks. I'm not familiar with this music offhand, and I liked her original LP quite a bit, but she doesn't need an SP and LP that are so similar.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2017
I think that's because most of us haven't seen the Canadians yet this season whereas Japanese and American ladies had one or two assignments each. Naturally they are the topic of discussion and comparison. I am one of those people who thinks that Japan really needed the 3 spots whereas US and as you said Canada might have done okay without it. But I would never say that the US women do not deserve it, for they clearly proved that they deserve it by placing as they did. I think what people are really saying is that it was a shame Wakaba couldn't score as expected and Mihara fell etc. Canadian girls placed 2&3 but the Japanese could have at least done better than the Americans but failed to do so, hence people are thinking that a lot of tension in the Japanese Skating could have been avoided if the opposite scenario were to come true.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
I think that's actually part of the problem. They got the spots based on that competition, where some did/did not perform well, but mainly, where many of this year's competitors could not compete. (Age restrictions, etc.) And now they're part of this battle for two spots? when they could have earned a third spot based on their prior performances. That's what I hate.
The call on the SP 3A was correct. They showed a super slomo of that 3A on the Olympic Channel---it clearly showed that Mirai completed the final half rotation on the ice, not in the air.
Mirai's overarching problem (other than URs) is that she doesn't have the presentation skills to bail her out when her jumps fail. She has gorgeous costumes but zero connection to her music. There are times when it's hard to believe she has 11 years of experience skating before judges and audiences.
As far as saying Mirai has the most difficult jump layout in the world right now for a female---that is not strictly true. There are two junior skaters who have FS jump layouts with 3a or 4s, and when Wakaba Higuchi adds in the 3a, her FS with two 3z+3t will be considerably more difficult than Mirai's. Mirai does one 3/3, just one 3z and one 3f; she repeats 3lo and 3s.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think she's a solid contender for an Olympic spot and has an outside change at the title. Probably nothing that happens on the GP/Senior B circuit will change that because her regular season results hardly correlate with her Nationals results.
Thats a rule and it applies to everyone. There are tons of talented skaters left out because of this rule.
For example, many russians, who didnt even get to go to Worlds 2017 to try getting the 3 spots will be left out, because russia has only 3 spots.
No matter how we do it, the number of skaters at Olympic Games is limited. Someone will always stay home, no matter what. And it will be always unfair to someone. I cannot really come up with a rule that will be objectively better for all skaters not just a specific group than a current one. If someone can, it shall be suggested.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
How about "only one spot per country is guaranteed, apart from that the best score of the season is in no matter the country, no max limit per country"?
I'm not even sure if all the countries should get guaranteed spots. Right now the current system will exclude tons of 180+p competitors and yet will have numerous skaters who could never even dream of breaking 150.
In the end meaningless events like the Japan Open don't matter much except for the paycheck and even skating well in a Senior B isn't the same as a GP event. Mirai does well in Senior B's and 4CC when the pressure is off but when the pressure is on like the GP where she needs to perform well she collapses.
But how would you measure best score of the season? For example, some senior Bs, and even GPs, are very well known for homecooking, and the local skaters there can get scores that they *ahem* shouldnt really.
What happens if skater A goes to worlds and WTT and gets all the inflation, while another skater misses nationals due to injury and does not get sent to worlds? or misses Worlds due to injury, and ends up with some uninflated score from the beginning of the season?
Or a skater just bombs nationals and doesnt get send to worlds, thus not getting the worlds inflated scores?
Should only international events count, or also domestic events?
If only international events come, what happens if a country has such a depth in talent that there are no enough spots to send all the talented skaters to international competitions (which was the case of russian junior ladies this season)?
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
There is absolutely no reason to criticize the Americans or Canadians for that matter for their three spots in ladies. It is sad about Japan with all their talent but those are the rules. It seems like it is "fair" when it suits us. Life isn't fair. one can argue that if one of the skaters comes out and skates clean and Evgenia makes an error and loses OGM that isn't fair but it is if you subscribe on who skates the best on the day of the competition. factors such as consistency or new versus used programs don't count in the scoring system.
The Americans right now don't have a clear it girl which is why i am saying Ashley because she has maturity and pcs and fairly consistent jumps that she is the best bet to make the team for the olympics though she may not win nationals.
Mirai, Karen, Mariah, et al have not shown enough consistency.
The Americans right now don't have a clear it girl which is why i am saying Ashley because she has maturity and pcs and fairly consistent jumps that she is the best bet to make the team for the olympics though she may not win nationals.
Mirai, Karen, Mariah, et al have not shown enough consistency.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
The problem is that Ashley isn't as reliable anymore. She hasn't had a good event internationally since Skate America last year, so she also will need a great GP season to get any sort of special consideration. In the year leading up to the last Olympic season (2012-13), Ashley came in with two GP wins, silver a GPF, a national title, and a top 5 Worlds placement. Her most recent season looks nothing like that.
