- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Think about this:
Vivian Le
Starr Andrews
Kaitlin Nguyen
Angela Wang
Tessa Hong
All big potential.All going to pacific coast sectionals. And unless one of them gets an international assignment that coincides with that sectionals , one of these 5 will not make it to Nationals.
Hopefully whoever doesn't make it to Nationals decides to work their butt off to make it next year. Intense competition, even smaller-scale like this, could be beneficial.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
There seems a discrepancy here. If the skater has good emphasis on SS and TR early, shouldn't this translate to mean they can hold the edge well with speed into their jumps? The inability to maintain speed into the jump from my interpretation is a sign of weak bladework due to poor SS. I think your artistry implied was more in performance and choreo rather than SS TR?
Intermediates are now allows to do 3-3 combinations.
I really think the # of ladies skaters advancing to Sectionals / Nationals at the lower IJS levels needs to increase. Lots of skaters are staying the levels multiple years instead of moving up. Skaters staying at Juv 3 and sometimes 4 years is not uncommon. Staying at Intermediate at least 2 years appears to be the new norm, same with Novice. I think that mentality contributes to the US sending 17-18 year old "Junior" to compete against the 13-14 year old Russians.
If you really want to push the pipeline, I think you need to push the younger skaters. In terms of long term potential, do you back the 11 year old sloppy skater or the 15 year old polished skater, both of which are skating at the same level with similar technical arsenal? The current system sends the polished skater.
The Juv max age will go back to under 13 for next year (it was raised about 5 years ago) which again is a step in the right direction. Personally I think it needs to go lower (maybe 10 or 11) and max ages need to be established for Intermediates and Novices. Yes it would negatively impact individual skaters but overall it would force the skaters to move up the ranks (get those tricks) which would benefit USFS.
Russia kinda does this. You have to achieve certain benchmarks by a certain age. If you reach those minimums, your funding continues. If you not achieve those minimums, you are out. That model will never happen in the US since skating is funded by the family, not the government.
I don't think Sand bagging with be as much as a problem as it was in the past. If things hold as they are this years junior champ will be 11 and won't be eligible for the JGP until 2019-2020. Focusing on jumps means younger champions because instead of developing an artistic skater they can bulk up on tough jumps and outscore their competition.
The problem now is these jumping beans can't compete internationally. Kaitlyn won last year but failed to make get a medal this year. That because her spins weren't developed as her competitors. She also got lots of underotation calls and wasn't really performing. I have no doubt she will get better, but it's obvious that promoting jumps without planning properly will result in off podium finishes. Ironically, Emmy with her more basic but consistent tech with high components was the only one that made it on the podium.
Kaitlyn and other younger ladies will have to play catch up with the Japanese Russians and Koreans. So it's imperative that we push better quality jumps, spins, and PCS. That can't be done when judges give inflated PCS points for having more jumps. Along with these jump camps, we need performance camps to increase the interpretive score.
Another idea I have is that we ship in international tech controllers for the monitored comps. Having professionals would root out the skaters that have clean edge issues and under rotations.
But having more competitive competition at the national level will fix the problem naturally. If you put a bunch of ladies together with similar tech against each other multiple times per year, it will force them to be more consistent, fix problem areas, become more artistic, and find ways to be more competitive.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
It's easier to become a better performer when your jumps are landed well and fully-rotated. One thing at a time. Most US junior ladies, Kaitlyn Nguyen notwithstanding, would benefit far more from improved jumping than from improved interpretation. At least Kaitlyn isn't plagued by carrots all over the place - I look forward to seeing what she can do next season, as I think her results give a pretty message to her team about what needs to be done. I also just looked up who her coaches are: Angela Nikodinov and Ivan Dinev, both of whom have worked with some pretty great coaches over the course of their own careers. And age-wise, she's only a year or two behind the Russians/Japanese, which is more than can be said for US ladies with less tech, like Starr and Emmy.
Frida80 : You talk about monitored competition. My question is how are parents of young skaters to know which competition will be "monitored? I have never seen such a list published.
From what I have seen at the summer competitions, sloppy jumpers are not getting inflated PCS scored ( but they will have high Technical scores). High PCS are reserved to the polished skaters.
Fyi - At the Philly Summer competitions, some of the intermediate ladies groups had international level judges as the technical controllers.
From what I have seen at the summer competitions, sloppy jumpers are not getting inflated PCS scored ( but they will have high Technical scores). High PCS are reserved to the polished skaters.
Fyi - At the Philly Summer competitions, some of the intermediate ladies groups had international level judges as the technical controllers.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
Isn't Kaitlyn 13? The minimum age to compete on the jgp is 13. I don't see how shes 13 and age-wise behind....
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- Mar 23, 2014
Development-wise, she's behind some 13 year old Russians and Japanese. Which is much preferable to being a 16 year old who is behind the 13 year olds.
Sorry, I didn't explain well.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
Oh I understand now! Makes much more sense. I do think Emmy and Starr both could do well on the senior level in maybe two years. Starr more so bc I worry if Emmy will be able to get a consistent 3-3. They are behind a bit but I always think of Mariah Bell who made her senior debut at 17 and look where she is now.
When you first learn a jump and trying to stabilize it, skaters tend to "telescope" into it. Perfect example is Mirai and her 3A. As the jump becomes more stable (~6 months after the jump is consistent), you can add the transitions. But you need a stable jump first.
And many skaters also sacrifice speed in step sequences so that they can do the more complex footwork levels. This was the first year that intermediates could have both a level 1 and level 2 footwork sequence. Many did not even get level 1, lots got bumped to the "basic" levels. And to be a good skater, you need both.
For singles there are four competitions during the summer that can get you on Team USA and an international placement. Broadmoor, Skate Detroit, Philly Champs and Glacier Falls. Each of them have a camp from the USFS to get feed back on programs. From these competitions and national results they decide who will go to International competitions. There is also a program that follows young talented skaters. They get pushed towards these camps, have their programs advised and report on progress regularly. You won't see the same advertised, but you will see skaters being added to the ISP after they perform well at these comps. They also add people after the US Novice and Junior Challenge skate. Starr got added last year after she won it. I think Lily got added this year after she medalled. Skating parents will be in the know by this point.
What I'm taking about is girls that look polished but are not getting calls on underrotations or edge calls.
If our tech controller are international then they need to be tougher. I know it's summer but these ladies need harsh feedback.
I tend to view myself as an educated parent and only from this forum do I know about monitored events. I always suspected those four were monitored but had never seen it. I also assumed Skare Dallas was on the list but I guess that is too early in the season. And I would also assume that Chesapeake Open and Lake Placid are monitored for ice dancers.
Even at the "Let's Jump" camp this pat year, USFS never mentioned the monitored competitions and I became friends with several parents of ISP skaters. Several of those skaters even got JPG assignments so I do have some inside sources.
Bottom line - if USFS thinks they are educating parents if ISP wanna bes about monitored events, they need a wake up call.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
I think the current scoring system gives far too much weight to factors/skills it is nearly impossible to discern with the naked eye, while completely undervaluing elements that actually visually impact a performance. Under the current system, a skater can wind up several points ahead on one element based almost entirely on something that you have to be both trained and focusing intently to see (or watching in slo-mo). Meanwhile, a skater who synchronizes with the music or choreographs big moves with the climaxes of his or her music seems to only benefit in tie-breaker-type scenarios. I think it should be the opposite. If judges had no slo-mo, they would focus more on things like height and posture and flow and straightness in evaluating jumps, whereas now they seem to focus almost exclusively on edge and rotation. This hyper-focus on certain technical factors, IMO, does a great disservice to the sport, warping what was once a unique balance between athleticism and art.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
I never get tired of this
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/video/2013/may/01/sasha-cohen-life-after-figureskating-video
Ahhhhh... I missed the classic layback spin.
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- Dec 29, 2013
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
:agree: Well said. Especially your words "unique balance" between athleticism and art, which used to exist in the sport and is now skewered.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
Karen did a great job with the choreography. I'm impressed with her work
She did her choreography last year too FWIW.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Ahhhhh... I missed the classic layback spin.
So do I. I'm sick to death of biellmans.
Watching this, another element I miss is Sasha's perfectly upright, perfectly graceful I-spin. Every other I've seen is distorted, imbalanced, sometimes even creepy.
