Anna Pogorilaya

[ejnsofi]

As for a coach change if Anna’s back injury heals, I would suggest something controversial: How about Morozov? He had successfully dealt with skaters who were fragile psychologically (Miki Ando) and those who experienced deep downs (Dennis Ten), and even what he did with Weaver/Poje is prett impressive as they are looking really good this year. Morozov also knew Anna very well for a long time as her choreographer, and he spoke very fondly about Anna, praising her work ethic and saying that “she’s an ideal athlete.” And even Anna mentioned that they have a good relationship. Of course, there is the danger as we all fear due to his notorious past with young female students, but Anna is not 18 anymore and is the same age as his wife...I just hope that he’s satisfied with his love life and Anna is not his type, so he would not prey on Anna...and he’s getting old...The point is at this moment, no coach who wants immediate result would accept Anna considering her age, injury and past meltdowns, so she really does not have many choices.

I wouldn't choose Morozov and it isn't only about his history of romances with his young, female students. Javier Fernandez almost gave up figure skating because of Morozov's approach. But coach change seems like the only option now. I think that even Julia's and Eteri's relationship didn't look that bad at the end like what's going on between Anna and Tsareva now. The question is: does Anna want to change coach at all? Also it won't be easy thing to do till the end of this season

 

[beki]

I feel people scrutinize Anna's mental state too intensely, when I'm guessing injury has played a large part in her situation. You can't feel confident in your skating when you don't have a foundation of good health. It always seemed like Anna and Tsaraeva had a cold relationship, except last season they seemed fine. Everything was going so well until Worlds, at least on the surface.

 

[j00mla]

There is my attempt to translate their conversation ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmpckb1p4fs )

Tsareva: Now we have to work on free skate as on short program. There is no other way. Why are you always "dying", I can't understand? Your legs are not behaving?
Pogo: What?
Tsareva: Your legs are not behaving?
Pogo: I tried to calm down myself, but vise versa...
Tsareva: Oh, I see.
Pogo: I'm trying but... (shows how she was shaking)
Tsareva: Don't you think that you have more skate from the beginning to the end? The programme. More skate it from the beginning to the end at trainings? Not once a week but more often?
Pogo: Did I "die" at this FS?
Tsareva: You just should watch it taped.
Pogo: I will, but it was much better and easier.
Tsareva: Oh, I don't know, what if harder is better?

(pause to listen the points)

Pogo: And entrance into a spin I didn't performed too?
Tsareva: Anya, watch it later in slow motion, with what wooden legs did you skate.
Pogo: Watch how did [you] twitch me.
Tsareva: I will not come close to you at all. If you want, you can fly to next skate alone. You should have prepare well.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I was so shocked and upset I just couldn't comment on her skate and career, etc. I was seguing from a post about a door being opened for Anna and I changed the wording from her falling through the door to belly flopping through the door just to be dramatic and to emphasize that she didn't really seize the opportunity. The was before she actually belly flopped. Then immediately she had that horrible horrible fall on her back, if the belly flop was not horrible enough already. :hopelessness:

What happened to Anna shook me up for the rest of the day. It interrupted my bliss, more so than what happened with Patrick later. I'm back to check on what we know about her condition and am glad her fed is now taking her health seriously.

 

[demarinis5]

Thanks for the translation @joomia. Wow those are some harsh words from Anna' s coach.
I can't imagine that any coach would speak to a skater like that especially if the said skater
is coming off an injury and could not train properly.

 

[MGstyle]

I have already said she would be better off as a professional skater, but if she is willing to compete, competing for Ukraine may be an option. I have read somewhere that her parents are from Ukraine, so if that's true there may possibly be a connection for her to get the citizenship. And then in that case, Viktor Petrenko will be in consideration as her new coach.

 

[anyanka]

Something's up that we don't know about. We can see hints in her dynamic with Anna Tsareva, but I get the sense that there are other stressors in her life. I got the same sense watching Gracie Gold last season after she missed out on a worlds medal in 2016, and now she's withdrawn completely from the GP series it seems. I wonder if perhaps she and Anna can form a support group? There's immense pressure to deliver and I'm purely speculating that it's not just her skating and coaching situation that is compounding her worries.

- - - Updated - - -

I have already said she would be better off as a professional skater, but if she is willing to compete, competing for Ukraine may be an option. I have read somewhere that her parents are from Ukraine, so if that's true there may possibly be a connection for her to get the citizenship. And then in that case, Viktor Petrenko will be in consideration as her new coach.

I like that idea! Ukraine right now needs a leading lady and I wonder if she could get a new coach and make some changes, she could at least get to the 2022 games. She's far too talented and beautiful a skater to give up now.

 

[anyanka]

As for a coach change if Anna’s back injury heals, I would suggest something controversial: How about Morozov? He had successfully dealt with skaters who were fragile psychologically (Miki Ando) and those who experienced deep downs (Dennis Ten), and even what he did with Weaver/Poje is prett impressive as they are looking really good this year. Morozov also knew Anna very well for a long time as her choreographer, and he spoke very fondly about Anna, praising her work ethic and saying that “she’s an ideal athlete.” And even Anna mentioned that they have a good relationship. Of course, there is the danger as we all fear due to his notorious past with young female students, but Anna is not 18 anymore and is the same age as his wife...I just hope that he’s satisfied with his love life and Anna is not his type, so he would not prey on Anna...and he’s getting old...The point is at this moment, no coach who wants immediate result would accept Anna considering her age, injury and past meltdowns, so she really does not have many choices.

May I suggest Brian Orser? He did wonders for so many (Yuna, Yuzu, Javi and Gabby), and despite mixed results for some (Nam, Elene G, Elisabet), he seems to be a champion maker and a compassionate coach. She may need that, if the feds allow her to train out of country and if she is willing to move to Toronto. Someone mentioned she may want to alleviate a lot of the stressors by not competing for Russia because there's so much competition there, perhaps another country like Ukraine (where her parents are from) may at least take some of the pressure away.

And since Brian is openly gay, there's no concern about the coach being lecherous towards her!

 

[MaiKatze]

It won't happen, guys. I am the first who would be happy about it, even the country change to Ukraine, I said years ago, she should consider that. But Anna is Russian. She was born in Moscow. She goes to Uni in Moscow. Her life is there. And I don't think she's willing to throw that away. I just feel that figure skating, while a big part of her life, isn't absolutely everything to her. And, like we said, unless Anna's parents are super rich, we can also forget about a foreign coach, because the russian fed won't pay for them.

What makes me absolutely furious...jiawen wrote that Anna trained thrice as much as the other skaters and jumped a lot. Then in the Kiss and Cry Anna Tsareva tells Anna "You should have skated the long more than once a week" or something like this. Honestly, Anna's Fanfest, I ask you, what is the job of a figure skating coach? What does a figure skating coach do? I would really be interested if it's not Anna Tsareva's job to create a training plan, and prepare her student for competition. I mean, yes of course, it is also on Anna. She's exposing herself when she knows she's not fully there and hasn't trained enough. It's humiliating. Anna Tsareva's job would be to say, "Nope. You're not ready. We're not doing this." These outings HURT. They hurt Anna's reputation. They will hurt her confidence, her self image, her state of mind. She will feel shame when she watches them 'later on tape' as her coach so kindly suggests. Saying, I'm not going with you anymore, sorry, that's kindergarten level of being offended. All of this reflects badly on Anna Tsareva as a coach, even more than on Anna Pogorilaya as a skater.

 

[alskling]

Do you know something about relationship between Russia and Ukraine now?
You can google it.
No chance.

 

[MGstyle]

But "represent Ukraine" doesn't necessarily mean she needs to relocate to Ukraine and practically *become* a Ukranian, I believe. Misha Ge for example he actually spends very little time in Uzbekistan, he just needs to go back there a few times a year mainly for bureaucratic purposes, while he spends most of the time in US, Russia or China. Daniel Samohin and Nicole Rajkova are pretty much Americans, and represent Israel and Slovakia (respectively) just on the papers. So I don't see why not, without upsetting the life she is living right now too much. But perhaps in Russia things don't work that way? I am not in the know about it...

Do you know something about relationship between Russia and Ukraine now?
You can google it.
No chance.

Ugh, this had slipped my mind... I am afraid you are right.

 

[Lana05]

Change a country? For what?? Did she had problems competing for Russia before? She was in a team for every year. Even when she had 2 meltdowns during GP she was 3rd at Worlds. Even if she'll change it she won't go to Korea this year. In 2022 she could already retire because of injuries. All that she needs now is to heel her back and to skate clean. She won't get any treat if she'll skate for a smaller federation, she'll just retire like it was with Gosviani and Shelepen.

 

[anyanka]

Do you know something about relationship between Russia and Ukraine now?
You can google it.
No chance.

My bad, I had forgotten about that too.

 

[Alifyre]

It won't happen, guys. I am the first who would be happy about it, even the country change to Ukraine, I said years ago, she should consider that. But Anna is Russian. She was born in Moscow. She goes to Uni in Moscow. Her life is there. And I don't think she's willing to throw that away. I just feel that figure skating, while a big part of her life, isn't absolutely everything to her. And, like we said, unless Anna's parents are super rich, we can also forget about a foreign coach, because the russian fed won't pay for them.

What makes me absolutely furious...jiawen wrote that Anna trained thrice as much as the other skaters and jumped a lot. Then in the Kiss and Cry Anna Tsareva tells Anna "You should have skated the long more than once a week" or something like this. Honestly, Anna's Fanfest, I ask you, what is the job of a figure skating coach? What does a figure skating coach do? I would really be interested if it's not Anna Tsareva's job to create a training plan, and prepare her student for competition. I mean, yes of course, it is also on Anna. She's exposing herself when she knows she's not fully there and hasn't trained enough. It's humiliating. Anna Tsareva's job would be to say, "Nope. You're not ready. We're not doing this." These outings HURT. They hurt Anna's reputation. They will hurt her confidence, her self image, her state of mind. She will feel shame when she watches them 'later on tape' as her coach so kindly suggests. Saying, I'm not going with you anymore, sorry, that's kindergarten level of being offended. All of this reflects badly on Anna Tsareva as a coach, even more than on Anna Pogorilaya as a skater.

Yeah, honestly what makes me the most upset is that Anna went to SC at all. Anna was in pain, and it's Tsareva's job to keep her skater in best fighting shape. It's obvious going to SC was not going to do that for Anna, especially if she wasn't fully prepared with her Free. Tsareva's mistake here was not just humiliation for Anna but also physically damaging to her, both of which will harm her chances for the Olympic team. Even if Anna doesn't change coaches, Tsareva needs to change her approach. The current trajectory is not sustainable any longer.

 

[UnNamed]

I don't know why if an athlete have some issue, is always the coach fault.
Don't think something will change if she change coach.

 

[MaiKatze]

^We don't know whose 'fault' it is. We just can guess from what we've seen, what they make us see. And I think what people saw in training and what we've heard in the KnC gives us hints. I absolutely believe that of course, Anna herself plays a part in this. But you rarely see a skater at this kind of level falling apart like that. And part of the whole figure skating experience is the coach. If you have a seasoned coach who knows what they are doing, I very much doubt they would let it come to this. People learn from their mistakes. This is not the first time it happened. It's not the second time it happened.

This here is her fanfest and what makes us love Anna is also her biggest downfall. She is, in my opinion, a very...mmh limited actress. She just doesn't act on ice. What she brings to the ice is completely her. What she's feeling at that moment. And that means, when she falls apart, we also get to see this truth in her eyes, she cannot hide it. I understand that this is not for everyone. But if I have to pinpoint why she touches me more than all the other female skaters out there, I think this is the reason.

 

[alskling]

This here is her fanfest and what makes us love Anna is also her biggest downfall. She is, in my opinion, a very...mmh limited actress. She just doesn't act on ice. What she brings to the ice is completely her. What she's feeling at that moment. And that means, when she falls apart, we also get to see this truth in her eyes, she cannot hide it. I understand that this is not for everyone. But if I have to pinpoint why she touches me more than all the other female skaters out there, I think this is the reason.

101%. Completely agree. She is not acting. She just live her life on the ice.

 

[NoNameFace]

^We don't know whose 'fault' it is. We just can guess from what we've seen, what they make us see. And I think what people saw in training and what we've heard in the KnC gives us hints. I absolutely believe that of course, Anna herself plays a part in this. But you rarely see a skater at this kind of level falling apart like that. And part of the whole figure skating experience is the coach. If you have a seasoned coach who knows what they are doing, I very much doubt they would let it come to this. People learn from their mistakes. This is not the first time it happened. It's not the second time it happened.

This here is her fanfest and what makes us love Anna is also her biggest downfall. She is, in my opinion, a very...mmh limited actress. She just doesn't act on ice. What she brings to the ice is completely her. What she's feeling at that moment. And that means, when she falls apart, we also get to see this truth in her eyes, she cannot hide it. I understand that this is not for everyone. But if I have to pinpoint why she touches me more than all the other female skaters out there, I think this is the reason.

I think that this could be also the reason behind the tension with Tsareva - while Anna may not be able (an is not willing) to separate her real life, struggles connected with it, emotions, experiences from competitive skating, Tsareva would like to do that and measure each competition in strict rules, marks and efforts. This may be one thing, another one may be just pure lack of understanding of that Anna's consummation put into her skating about her life in general, then just dismissing it and putting it as a reason of Anna's failures. And I cannot say that the approach Anna has is a successful, right and defendable one - it's just her innate way of skating, expressing and working, she knows that the best, in best and worst sides. The problem is that this attitude/approach is just not accepted/embraced by her coach in correct way - it looks more right now like attempts to tame this flame inside of Anna instead of igniting it in the right way and direction.

I do think that Anna needs a plan, more structure to 'contain' her emotional/physically-touching and all-consuming approach towards figure skating, competitions especially, but what she definitely does not need is dismissal and coldness expressed by Tsareva, even if her feedback had some merit. It's more about WAY of work instead of work itself. AND if we're taking into consideration Anna's injury, this amount of pushing her competitively without some individual consideration over her purely physical state could do much worse damage also in mentality sense.

And about this piece about Anna's travelling herself for the next competition...Well, better alone than with bad mojo along I'd say, Anna's struggles should definitely not be multiplied and overblown by lack of consideration shown by coach.

 

[silverfoxes]

Nobody skates for Ukraine by choice. There is 0 money there. An athlete in the reserve Russian team will get far more support than a top skater for Ukraine.

If she is physically healthy enough to keep competing, and that's what she wants, then she should do it. It is not the end of the world if you don't make the national team. On the other hand, if she decides to retire, she has had a good career in spite of the ups and downs. A Worlds medal & 3 Euro medals is nothing to be sad about. And she's been invited to some of the most prestigious ice shows already & I see no reason why they wouldn't ask her back.

I think Anna's problems are kind of a chicken & egg situation - she has had so many injuries and scary falls (there is no way she hasn't had any concussions!), and then of course her confidence takes a hit after every one of them. I will not pretend to know the complexities of her relationship with Tsareva but the latest interaction reminded me very much of Eteri & Adian...and we know how that ended. It is fine to be critical as a coach but when there is an utter lack of empathy for someone in visible pain...I don't like that at all.

I am loathe to bring up TSL because I hate Dave Lease and I don't want to give him any attention or clicks at all - I don't watch his hideous show. But I read some comments about what he had to say about Anna at SC and he has sunk to a new low, even for him. I hope somebody sues him one of these days. I guess he feels safe going after Russian skaters because he figures they don't listen or can't get him. What a pathetic individual.

 

[Alifyre]

https://m.sports.ru/figure-skating/1057027190.html

Averbukh with more defense of Anya -- says her issue is clearly her injury, and that her lack of physical fitness plus her drive to win is what caused her Canadian meltdown.

...honestly at this point maybe Averbukh will take her on, I know he really only does choreo and people have been on him about the weird program messages he does for Zhenya but honestly he seems to be one of the only positive Russian voices about Anna since Worlds. (A long shot, I know, I just want to see her with a nicer coach and someone who isn't a creep like Mozorov)