2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Mrs. P]

We on GS have the luxury of time and hindsight to say "I would have done it this way..."

Should have Ashley W/D? I don't know. I'm not her doctor. I'm not sure what conversations transpired between her and her medical team and Raf leading up to Skate America.

As I said earlier, if Ashley is immature for wanting to compete, then so is Boyang Jin for trying to make GPF on two injured ankles, or Jason Brown showing up for Nationals just 2 weeks after being clear to get back on the ice post-stress fracture and having to wear a boot outside of practices. The only difference between those two and Ashley is that Boyang and Jason were able to finish the competition and got what they were aiming for. Ashley didn't. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the same thing could have happened to either of them.

Jason was missing 3As all week long. He had issues with the 3A in the SP. There was a point where they were considering scaling down his FS to only include one 3A. It was only in the warm-up the day of the free skate where he started landing them and he ended up landing both of them in the FS. There was some major gambling going on. Why?? Jason wanted to show he was willing to fight for a team spot.

So it's not surprising Ashley wanted to fight for a GPF spot or to compete.

Let's say, it was Jason who W/D in the middle of his free skate at Nationals... would people accuse him of faking/not wanting to compete? Or Nathan? Or any of the men? It kind of feels like there's a sense of cattiness regarding all the backlash toward Ashley, like a desire to assume the worse of her for whatever reason.

 

[Figure 8's]

There would have been a lot less backlash if she withdrew a week or two before the event, when she was off-ice for an injury, so that a replacement could be named. What happened was extremely selfish. Another skater would have very much welcomed the opportunity. And to have A disparage Skate America as being inconsequential in the larger scheme of things was downright disrespectful to the rest of the field.

I hope A gets fined for showing up to a competition injured and not yielding her spot to someone else. Just like Rachel Flatt got fined.

Maturity is knowing how your body works and speaking up for it BEFORE you impact a whole lot of other people. Not to mention disparage a major competition as being low on your priority list. Waiting 'til you're at the competition—in mid-program, no less—to figure out that you don't want to skate right then (a fact that you might have anticipated long in advance) is just plain boorish.

Agree with you. She said she was off the ice for week and half. She should have withdrawn and let some one else have the spot. She looked extremely unprepared for this competition. Sure Raf was more than a little miffed. Coaches always come across as looking like the bad Guys.

 

[noskates]

It's been said repeatedly that every US Lady needs every edge going into Nationals. I don't fault Ashley one bit for wanting to skate. Johnny and Tara said many times that she had been doing full-out practices and doing all her jumps and that they looked good. She wanted to win and/or place at Skate America to go into Nationals with that edge over the other ladies. She really felt she could gut it out - and that's what champion elite athletes do! They perform through the pain. When the padding slipped in her boot it made skating just too painful. I'm not sure why people are trying to assume the worst about her. I also don't think she looked "extremely" unprepared for this competition - that's a pretty "extreme" comment from anyone who wasn't around her all the time prior to SA. I think Ashley looked the best she has in a long time. She has an absolutely stunning dress and appears to be quite fit. Ashley probably assumes this is her last competitive season and wants to make the most of it. I doubt anyone was as disappointed as she was to have to withdraw.

And to answer Mrs. P's question - with the current temperament on the board right now I think it wouldn't have mattered who withdrew. It would still be a major topic for thinking the worst and dissecting the situation ad nauseum.

 

[kimi492]

Did anyone see Mirai's Instagram story? She did 3A+2T+2Lo, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3S+3T and 3A(ur)+3T+3T!
She has all the pieces she just needs to put them together - I'm wondering if she's changing her jumping layout for nationals? Either way, I'm so excited to see what she does!

Here's the video - I'm glad someone saved it - I was getting frustrated trying to find it :giveup:
https://twitter.com/hdhaikal11/status/934269212423438337

 

[gravy]

I'm here to be National champion.

You're at Skate America, Ashley. That was my takeaway from her interview.

 

[nguyhm]

This is sport. When Yulia did the same at Rostelecom I was equally critical of her, despite the fact I am huge fan of her. Once you started you must finish.

Yulia did not do the same at Rostelecom, she fell, got up and could hardly jump. In the end she came back out and finished the program, getting a huge deduction.

 

[Miss Ice]

Did anyone see Mirai's Instagram story? She did 3A+2T+2Lo, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3S+3T and 3A(ur)+3T+3T!
She has all the pieces she just needs to put them together - I'm wondering if she's changing her jumping layout for nationals? Either way, I'm so excited to see what she does!

Honestly if Mirai can pull that stuff clean at Nationals I can see her winning. My ideal podium would be: (1) Mirai (2) Karen (3) Polina E

Yulia did not do the same at Rostelecom, she fell, got up and could hardly jump. In the end she came back out and finished the program, getting a huge deduction.

You should take a look at Midori Ito jumping into the camera man outside of the boards. I am sure half of the skaters in Midori's situation would choose to WD too but she just kept on skating and checked on the camera man afterwards. What a champ.

 

[creaturelover]

May be a bit off topic, but I'm not sure what kind of infection one would get on their ankle. Is it the result of a blister that got infected?

Any form of open wound can get infected. Some can even become very severe

 

[Icey]

I realize that but.....The fact that she couldn't finish the program was the obvious problem. Who knows if she can still complete those jumps after re-injuring herself. I'm not trying make this personal as I would feel the same way about any skater in Ashley's position.

I'm very confused. Was this a reinjury ? I thought the original infection just hadn't healed yet.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Did anyone see Mirai's Instagram story? She did 3A+2T+2Lo, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3S+3T and 3A(ur)+3T+3T!
She has all the pieces she just needs to put them together - I'm wondering if she's changing her jumping layout for nationals? Either way, I'm so excited to see what she does!

I feel like she already takes enough risk with the 3A, and the addition hasn't improved her placements or scores at all. The 3A is a good risk because she usually gets more points for it than a 2A, but adding 3-3's will likely lead to more under rotation calls.

 

[kimi492]

I feel like she already takes enough risk with the 3A, and the addition hasn't improved her placements or scores at all. The 3A is a good risk because she usually gets more points for it than a 2A, but adding 3-3's will likely lead to more under rotation calls.

That's the key - that they're rotated - they looked good to me here besides the second 3A but again I'm not seeing them in slow motion. The 3A sets her apart - Mirai has said herself she wants to push the sport forward technically - mentioning Juniors are starting to do quads and she needs to catch up. I think that drive is great even if she struggles.

 

[Icey]

May be a bit off topic, but I'm not sure what kind of infection one would get on their ankle. Is it the result of a blister that got infected?

I don't know why everyone is concluding it is her ankle: in the instagram message, Ashely said it was INSIDE her Right Foot.

 

[stella luna]

FWIW, Wagner has an Instagram post shedding a little light on her situation:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcAJgVXAGhn/

So it was just a week ago that she was diagnosed with this infection. I think it would have been understandable to TPTB if she immediately pulled out of SA upon hearing that, but I’m betting she felt the pressure to compete, both out of her own strong will and to prove to TPTB that she deserves a spot on the Team (via qualifying for the GPF). Now, there is always the possibility that she COULD have gotten through it, but there was no way she was going to win, anyway. Not after doubling the combo at least. The result wouldn’t have helped her case.

Clearly not worth further pain and aggravating the injury further. It was the right call.

I remembered Rachel Flatt getting all manner of criticism for competing with an undisclosed injury. She was even fined.

 

[Mathman]

I remembered Rachel Flatt getting all manner of criticism for competing with an undisclosed injury. She was even fined.

As I recall, the USFSA was content to let it go, but journalist Phil Hersh kept badgering them and badgering them until they agreed to levy a fine on Rachael (for not reporting an injury, as per the rules).

 

[flipsydoodle]

No athlete likes to admit defeat...withdrawals are not easy, just look at my icon and think of how hard it was for Tai & Randy to withdraw without even trying.

Randy was injured shortly before the event, but after the competition (the Olympics) was already in progress. He had had a shot to help him along. Randy and Tai have never lost their respect for that competition despite the fact they had to withdraw. They seem like the kind of accomplished skaters who would happily have represented the US at a competition like Skate America.

AW was injured and off the ice for a week and a half, plus Skate America was per her own statement a low priority for her, one that's not nearly as important compared to whatever else she wants to do. There was plenty of time for her to process the reality of the injury, and arrive at her evident disdain for Skate America and other competitors who welcomed the opportunity to skate there.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I feel like she already takes enough risk with the 3A, and the addition hasn't improved her placements or scores at all. The 3A is a good risk because she usually gets more points for it than a 2A, but adding 3-3's will likely lead to more under rotation calls.

I looked at the protocols for her free skate at NHK and despite the fact that she rotated all the jumps, except the 3A, and received no edge calls she still didn't crack 130 (she scored 129.29). In fact she barely beat out grandma Alena Leonova who scored 127.34 :reye: In comparison last year at 4CC when she was attempting a 3-3, but no 3A, she scored 127.80. She had no urs but got an e on the lutz. So you're right when you say there has been no significant improvement scorewise with the addition of the 3A.

I think it would be wise to keep the layout exactly as is and work harder on getting better GOE. And of course work on the PCS aspect which needs improvement as well (63.09 at NHK vs. 61.79 at 4CC. again hardly that big a difference). If she doesn't improve those aspects as well then she'll never take the next step to really challenge

 

[NAOTMAA]

As I recall, the USFSA was content to let it go, but journalist Phil Hersh kept badgering them and badgering them until they agreed to levy a fine on Rachael (for not reporting an injury, as per the rules).

Frank Carroll's outburst probably had more to do with it then Phil Hersh to be honest. I think when Frank spoke out it really exploded and that's when fans really started laying on Rachel. It took on a bigger life after that

 

[Icey]

As I recall, the USFSA was content to let it go, but journalist Phil Hersh kept badgering them and badgering them until they agreed to levy a fine on Rachael (for not reporting an injury, as per the rules).

Phil had nothing to do with it except the reporting of it. Rachael mentioned the injury to the media after her free skate and USFSA investigated. She was reprimanded and fined. Frank was vocal about it and said it cost us a third spot at worlds. Phil asked him how he could know that Mirai would have skated well enough to get three spots.

 

[kimi492]

I looked at the protocols for her free skate at NHK and despite the fact that she rotated all the jumps, except the 3A, and received no edge calls she still didn't crack 130 (she scored 129.29). In fact she barely beat out grandma Alena Leonova who scored 127.34 :reye: In comparison last year at 4CC when she was attempting a 3-3, but no 3A, she scored 127.80. She had no urs but got an e on the lutz. So you're right when you say there has been no significant improvement scorewise with the addition of the 3A.

I think it would be wise to keep the layout exactly as is and work harder on getting better GOE. And of course work on the PCS aspect which needs improvement as well (63.09 at NHK vs. 61.79 at 4CC. again hardly that big a difference).

GOE seems as controversial these days as PCS scores - it might be better for her to try and up the technical ante if she can.

 

[flipsydoodle]

As I recall, the USFSA was content to let it go, but journalist Phil Hersh kept badgering them and badgering them until they agreed to levy a fine on Rachael (for not reporting an injury, as per the rules).

Exactly. Flatt was levied a fine because she didn't report an injury prior to a competition where she was to represent the US.

You're finding fault with Hersh for Flatt's and her team's behavior? Something wrong here. When it comes to this kind of situation blame normally falls on the perpetrator(s) and not on an onlooker or commentator.