2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[mrrice]

If Mirai actually felt entitled to go to the Olympics, she wouldn't have bothered learning the triple axel.

Completely true......Look, after what happened to her in 2014, I don't think she takes anything for granted....She won the Bronze that year and still missed the team after the committee gave her spot to Ashley Wagner.

 

[R.D.]

And Wagner herself was 3rd in 2010, a year where there were only 2 Oly spots.

 

[mrrice]

And Wagner herself was 3rd in 2010, a year where there were only 2 Oly spots.

I remember that as well. IMO, Rachael Flatt was the clear winner and I think Ashley lost due to a poor SP as she was great during the Long Program.

 

[R.D.]

I preferred Nagasu's FS that year, it was more carefree than Flatt's - but IIRC she got hit with some URs which gave Flatt the win.

And yes, Wagner once again buried herself after a sub-par SP.

 

[mrrice]

What Mirai had over Rachael was speed across the ice. I actually preferred Rachael's LP but, I can see why some preferred Mirai due to her superior speed. Especially in Vancouver where the BOTH skated very well. My biggest problem was her lack of Flexibility. However, she was a very good performer. Theatrical and expressive. Here's her LP from Vancouver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_xsVCvEmQ

 

[skylark]

Completely true......Look, after what happened to her in 2014, I don't think she takes anything for granted....She won the Bronze that year and still missed the team after the committee gave her spot to Ashley Wagner.

That's a bit inaccurate and misleading. The spot was never Mirai's.

The other part of your post, I agree with. I don't think either Mirai or Ashley takes anything for granted. They're both valiant competitors, both committed to earning their results.

 

[mrrice]

That's a bit inaccurate and misleading. The spot was never Mirai's.

The other part of your post, I agree with. I don't think either Mirai or Ashley takes anything for granted. They're both valiant competitors, both committed to earning their results.

Wrong.....It's VERY accurate that Mirai defeated Ashley in 2014. We all know the committee can make changes but......The Judges selected Mirai and "Committee" went with Ashley. There was a reason that she was so exited when she saw her marks following her LP, and then was in tears during her exhibition. Here's her exhibition from 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqG3UPgU7as

 

[chuckm]

If Mirai actually felt entitled to go to the Olympics, she wouldn't have bothered learning the triple axel.

Maybe Mirai thought the 3a was going to be the magic pill to cure all her ills, but so far, the 3a hasn't done a thing for her. She hasn't landed one 3a cleanly in competition, and she continues to get URs on other jumps (and even on the 3a itself). Her PCS scores are still below elite level.

All the ladies who made the GPF and even all the alternates have had scores over 200. Mirai's highest score this season was 194.46, at NHK, where the tech team gave out very few URs in the FS; her next-highest was 183.54 at the US Classic; her lowest was 178.25 at CoR, where ATS nitpicker Gusmeroli handed her 3 URs in the SP and 3 in the FS.

It seems Mirai's scores are dependent on how harsh the tech team at any given event is going to be. And that is NOT good, because it only adds to the pressure on her to concentrate on the tech, which continues to take away from her presentation.

 

[MK's Winter]

If Mirai actually felt entitled to go to the Olympics, she wouldn't have bothered learning the triple axel.

I agree. Mirai is training her rear off. That girl refuses to roll over and just die. I respect her for upping her tech arsenal regardless of UR calls.

 

[chuckm]

Wrong.....It's VERY accurate that Mirai defeated Ashley in 2014. We all know the committee can make changes but......The Judges selected Mirai and "Committee" went with Ashley. There was a reason that she was so exited when she saw her marks following her LP, and then was in tears during her exhibition.

Mirai edged Ashley at Nationals 2014.
But over the two years preceding Nationals 2014, Ashley was by far the superior, more consistent performer, as demonstrated in competitions over that period:
Ashley won Nationals 2013 and 2012 while Mirai placed 7th at both.
In the fall of 2013, Ashley made it to the GPF and won GPF bronze while Mirai placed 8th at one event and won bronze at the other.
In the 2012-2013 season, Ashley won both GP events and GPF silver, while Mirai placed 4th in one event and won bronze in the other.

It was on the comparison of those two records that the committee based their decision, not just on how the judges saw Nationals 2014. And that was the correct decision.

 

[mrrice]

Mirai edged Ashley at Nationals 2014.
But over the two years preceding Nationals 2014, Ashley was by far the superior, more consistent performer, as demonstrated in competitions over that period:
Ashley won Nationals 2013 and 2012 while Mirai placed 7th at both.
In the fall of 2013, Ashley made it to the GPF and won GPF bronze while Mirai placed 8th at one event and won bronze at the other.
In the 2012-2013 season, Ashley won both GP events and GPF silver, while Mirai placed 4th in one event and won bronze in the other.

It was on the comparison of those two records that the committee based their decision, not just on how the judges saw Nationals 2014. And that was the correct decision.

This comment I agree with and in 2014, I was OK with the decision due to the season that Ashley had....This season, However. Bradie is the only skater who deserves to be "Help Up" by the committee. None of the Ladies made the GPF. In fact, I don't believe any of them won a GP event, did they?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This comment I agree with and in 2014, I was OK with the decision due to the season that Ashley had....This season, However. Bradie is the only skater who deserves to be "Help Up" by the committee. None of the Ladies made the GPF. In fact, I don't believe any of them won a GP event, did they?

Bradie has been the clear leader this season. However, even for her I think it would be hard to put her on the team without a medal at Nationals. Despite her successes, Bradie has never been put to the test in a big event like Worlds. Furthermore, if she were to miss the podium at Nationals, she will have no National medals in 3 attempts and I think it's hard to put someone on an Olympic team without a Nationals medal in her career. Having said that, Bradie is skating very well and replicating her Skate America performances will surely land her on the podium.

 

[Heleng]

Maybe Mirai thought the 3a was going to be the magic pill to cure all her ills, but so far, the 3a hasn't done a thing for her. She hasn't landed one 3a cleanly in competition, and she continues to get URs on other jumps (and even on the 3a itself). Her PCS scores are still below elite level.

All the ladies who made the GPF and even all the alternates have had scores over 200. Mirai's highest score this season was 194.46, at NHK, where the tech team gave out very few URs in the FS; her next-highest was 183.54 at the US Classic; her lowest was 178.25 at CoR, where ATS nitpicker Gusmeroli handed her 3 URs in the SP and 3 in the FS.

It seems Mirai's scores are dependent on how harsh the tech team at any given event is going to be. And that is NOT good, because it only adds to the pressure on her to concentrate on the tech, which continues to take away from her presentation.

Um, my post was only in reply to your sentiment that Mirai "feels entitled to a second [Olympics]." I agree that her nerves prevent her from performing to her potential in competitions. I'd love to see her get them under control at Nationals and give the performances that she's capable of and worked so hard for.

ETA: I didn't refer to Ashley, but I don't believe she feels entitled to another Olympics either.

 

[chuckm]

Senior GP and JGP Competitions


Senior GP bronze: Ashley Wagner (SC), Bradie Tennell (SA)
Senior JGP bronze: Emmy Ma


Senior B and Challenge Competitions

Senior B Gold: Bradie Tennell Philadelphia International 184.98 (64.92+120.06)
Senior B Silver: Angela Wang Philadelphia International 183.53 (69.54+113.89)

Challenge Silver: Mirai Nagasu US International Classic 183.54 (64.81+119.73)
Challenge Bronze: Karen Chen US International Classic 182.32 (66.18+116.14)

Challenge (4th): Bradie Tennell Lombardia 196.70 (64.34+132.36)

Challenge (4th): Courtney Hicks Canadian Autumn Classic 174.16 (59.77+114.39)

Challenge (4th): Angela Wang Finlandia 183.85 (62.54+121.31)

Challenge Bronze: Courtney Hicks Warsaw Cup Challenge 165.39 (58.43+106.96)

Challenge (4th): Caroline Zhang Tallinn Trophy Challenge 170.86 (56.35+114.47)
Challenge (5th): Angela Wang Tallinn Trophy Challenge 160.04 (62.50+ 97.54)


Bradie is the only Senior lady who won a competition

 

[Moxiejan]

Wrong.....It's VERY accurate that Mirai defeated Ashley in 2014. We all know the committee can make changes but......The Judges selected Mirai and "Committee" went with Ashley. There was a reason that she was so exited when she saw her marks following her LP, and then was in tears during her exhibition. Here's her exhibition from 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqG3UPgU7as

It's very accurate that Mirai defeated Ashley in 2014, but NOT accurate that Ashley was given Mirai's spot. As Skylark said, Mirai never had a spot. According to 2014 rules, the only person to directly earn a spot from Nationals was the champion (Gracie Gold). The other two spots were to be awarded from among the rest of the Top 5, based on the criteria list that was posted over the summer. The committee chose Ashley & Polina; they never said if their "order" was Ashley, Polina, Mirai or Polina, Ashley, Mirai. It is no more accurate to say that the committee went with Ashley instead of Mirai than it would be to say that the committee went with Polina instead of Mirai.

Perhaps Mirai's reactions (so excited & then tears) was partly due to the fact that neither she nor her team had paid close enough attention to the process & just figured that a 3rd at Nationals (with little else in the criteria to support it) would automatically be enough?

 

[ice coverage]

Maybe Mirai thought the 3a was going to be the magic pill to cure all her ills ...

AFAIK, Mirai never has said that the 3a was going to be "the magic pill to cure all her ills."

Meanwhile, among the U.S ladies, Mirai has the second-highest ISU Season's Best.

And among the U.S. ladies, Mirai is highest in the ISU World Standings.

---

Senior GP and JGP Competitions


Senior GP bronze: Ashley Wagner (SC), Bradie Tennell (SA)
Senior JGP bronze: Emmy Ma


Senior B and Challenge Competitions

Senior B Gold: Bradie Tennell Philadelphia International 184.98 (64.92+120.06)
Senior B Silver: Angela Wang Philadelphia International 183.53 (69.54+113.89)

Challenge Silver: Mirai Nagasu US International Classic 183.54 (64.81+119.73)
Challenge Bronze: Karen Chen US International Classic 182.32 (66.18+116.14)

Challenge (4th): Bradie Tennell Lombardia 196.70 (64.34+132.36)

Challenge (4th): Courtney Hicks Canadian Autumn Classic 174.16 (59.77+114.39)

Challenge (4th): Angela Wang Finlandia 183.85 (62.54+121.31)

Challenge Bronze: Courtney Hicks Warsaw Cup Challenge 165.39 (58.43+106.96)

Challenge (4th): Caroline Zhang Tallinn Trophy Challenge 170.86 (56.35+114.47)
Challenge (5th): Angela Wang Tallinn Trophy Challenge 160.04 (62.50+ 97.54)


Bradie is the only Senior lady who won a competition

Yes, regarding Bradie as the only winner of a competition.

Meanwhile, your results list omits Mirai's and Courtney's fourth places at GPs.

And I don't know why, given that you did include fourth and fifth places at Challengers.

 

[mrrice]

It's very accurate that Mirai defeated Ashley in 2014, but NOT accurate that Ashley was given Mirai's spot. As Skylark said, Mirai never had a spot. According to 2014 rules, the only person to directly earn a spot from Nationals was the champion (Gracie Gold). The other two spots were to be awarded from among the rest of the Top 5, based on the criteria list that was posted over the summer. The committee chose Ashley & Polina; they never said if their "order" was Ashley, Polina, Mirai or Polina, Ashley, Mirai. It is no more accurate to say that the committee went with Ashley instead of Mirai than it would be to say that the committee went with Polina instead of Mirai.

Perhaps Mirai's reactions (so excited & then tears) was partly due to the fact that neither she nor her team had paid close enough attention to the process & just figured that a 3rd at Nationals (with little else in the criteria to support it) would automatically be enough?

Semantics......Mirai deserved the spot by outscoring Ashley under the pressure of Nationals. I get it, the committee "Gave" the spot to Ashley and based on the 2014 season. I understood because Ashley had won Trophee Lalique and made the GPF. Neither of those things happened to ANY US Lady this fall. When was the last time we didn't have a skater win a GP event. Not a Senior B, a GP event? It's just my opinion but I hope the USFSA selects the ladies who medal and let the decision of the judges stand.

 

[ice coverage]

.... According to 2014 rules, the only person to directly earn a spot from Nationals was the champion (Gracie Gold). ....

According to the USFS selection criteria, the national champion was *not* guaranteed a 2014 OWG spot.

The national champion was guaranteed only a 2014 Worlds spot.

---

.... Perhaps Mirai's reactions (so excited & then tears) was partly due to the fact that neither she nor her team had paid close enough attention to the process & just figured that a 3rd at Nationals (with little else in the criteria to support it) would automatically be enough?

Or perhaps Mirai is a human being who was excited that by a margin of eight points, she was in second place with one skater left. And a human being who was excited that she had taken a big step closer to the OWG.
And then a human being who was understandably emotional that she was not selected.

Ashley showed a contrast of reactions too.
After the FS on Saturday, she believed her Nats results put her in limbo and at the mercy of the selection committee.
Her anxiety/uncertainty on Saturday turned into tears of joy/relief on Sunday when she was assigned to the Olympic team.

As a human being, Ashley had a big change in reaction. As a human being, Mirai had a big change in reaction. Very understandable in both cases.

 

[Moxiejan]

Or perhaps Mirai is a human being who was excited that by a margin of eight points, she was in second place with one skater left. And a human being who was excited that she had taken a big step closer to the OWG.
And then a human being who was understandably emotional that she was not selected.

Yes, that why I said her reactions were "partly" due to her team not preparing her that 3rd might not be good enough.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Yes, that why I said her reactions were "partly" due to her team not preparing her that 3rd might not be good enough.

Honestly, it’s 2018, it was 4 years ago both of the skaters are not focused on 2014 rn, their focused on 2018. Mb we should talk ab how they could do well in 2018, rather than bicker an what happened 4 yrs ago?