2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 73 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

I thought he could do a second 3A as long as it was in Combination. Will a 3A Combo give him too many passes? :confused2:

You can repeat a total of two different jumps (doubles, triples, or quads) in the FS, as long as the repeated jumps are in combination. You can repeat two quads, two triples, two doubles, one quad and one triple, etc. If you repeat one quad and one 3A, you can’t repeat any other jumps.

So if, per Karne’s post above, Max does

4S
4S+3T
4T
4T+2T

he cant repeat the 3A because he’s used up his two repeats on the two quads. He can do one 3A, though.

However, if he does

4S
4S+3T
4T

he can add

3A
3A+2T

because he has only repeated one jump - the 4S.

Hope that helps.
 
I thought he could do a second 3A as long as it was in Combination. Will a 3A Combo give him too many passes? :confused2:

Only two triple or quad jumps may be repeated. If a jump is repeated, one of two attempts must be in combination. If he repeats 4T and 4S, he cannot repeat the 3A (or any other triple or quad).
 
I thought he could do a second 3A as long as it was in Combination. Will a 3A Combo give him too many passes? :confused2:

For Zayak rule purposes, triples and quads fall into the same pool. You can repeat two triples, two quads, or one triple and one quad. As you say, at least one attempt at each repeated jump must be in combination.

Edited to correct myself per Tavi's fuller explanation!
 
... I recently watched Max’s last national’s short program(hadn’t seen it before). How awful that was for him. Some problems we don’t know about or just bad form that day? ...

In answer to your question about 2017 Nats:

For one thing, the effects at that time of Max's hernia surgery in May 2016 should not be underestimated.
At the time of Nats in Jan 2017, Max had said very little about his surgery.

But more recently, he eventually opened up a bit about the unexpectedly prolonged effects of his surgery. For example, he said that he probably should have withdrawn from his 2016 GPs. (One of the reasons that he did not withdraw was the hope of not losing too much ground in ISU World Standings.) Among other things, he said also that every day on the ice last season was a physical and mental challenge.​

Happy to say that I believe that 2018 Nats will be an entirely different story for Magna Max :yay:.
 
Who I want: Alexei, Adam, Jason

Who will: Nathan, Adam, Vincent

I don't know about Vincent over Max......Vincent is fresh out of Juniors and like Alexei K. I see him as the future. Nathan and Adam seem to be locks for the team and I think the final spot will be a fight between Jason and Max. I look for Vincent and Alexei to be the future and represent us in 2022.
 
I don't about Vincent over Max......Vincent is fresh out of Juniors and like Alexei K. I see him as the future. Nathan and Adam seem to be locks for the team and I think the final spot will be a fight between Jason and Max. I look for Vincent and Alexei to be the future and represent us in 2022.

It''s what makes this season so exciting. I've got Vincent on my roster, just because his Tech is so high. If he hits (and that's a big "if" I concede) then he's on the team. I just don't think anyone other than Nathan can beat out a clean Vincent. If he's a bit off, but so is everyone else... then he's got a better than average shot.

Now, granted, he hasn't been clean through both programs this season - but I don't recall a lot of clean competitions for any US man.
 
Wish: Adam, Max, Jason

Why: Adam has worked his butt off this year to come back from a bad injury; he’s quite funny; and I really respect the fact that he’s willing to speak up publicly about controversial stuff. Max also worked his butt off this year, taking a full course load in a tough subject while training and competing at an elite level; and I love the generosity and good sportsmanship he showed in rushing to congratulate Jason and Adam after they gave lights out performances at 2014 Nats and 2016 Worlds, respectively. Jason? Well he’s my favorite skater.

Will (with a lot of caveats): Nathan, Vincent, Adam.

Why: Nathan requires no explanation. Vincent’s base value with a 5-quad FS is super high; after France, he will be anxious to prove himself; and Nats judges generally tend to ignore under rotations and inflate PCS and GOE. Adam is on a mission this season, and as between him, Jason and Max, he’s been the most consistent; his TES is higher than Jason’s, and if USFS is true to form, he will get a lot of plus GOE and high PCS.

Now the caveats:

- Vincent did less well on the GP this season than many people hoped or expected. In fact, he had net negative GOE in all three of his FS, and his highest PCS was about 75. He’s mistake-prone in the SP, forcing him to play catch up in the FS (his total SP score in France was only 66). Still, in China, his 5-quad FS, even with negative GOE, yielded total TES of 102. Last season, at the beginning of the multi quad hysteria (as I like to think of it), he, like Nathan, seemed to be “the future.” Now, he appears to be not quite soup yet - i.e., the “future” either isn’t quite as stellar as it once appeared, or it’s somewhat farther off. If he struggles in the SP, and doesn’t land/rotate 5 quads and/or get the same kind of GOE/PCS he got at Nats last year, he is beatable despite his high base value. If he skates fairly clean, though, he could score about 290 with moderately inflated GOE/PCS - almost impossible to beat for anyone except Nathan. I think it depends on him, and also depends on whether USFS is still convinced - despite his rough season - that he’s “the future” and they want him on the team.

Max: if he attempts a four-quad FS (as outlined by Karne above) and gets something closest to his highest PCS/GOE, he could potentially score in the 280-285 range. Adam, who is likely to receive much higher PCS and GOE than Max, could also score in that range with his current layout if he skates nearly clean (ie, his only error is an < 4Z that he stands up). So it’s really down to which of them are steadier on the day.

The truth is, with generous Nats scoring, Jason could also score in the 280-285 range, even without a quad, if he skates absolutely clean. But he hasn’t skated clean all season, and it’s unclear if he’ll be able to do so here. I’m pessimistic enough to think he’s less likely to do so than Adam, Max, or Vincent. But I will be thrilled if he proves me wrong!
 
Vincent - I think he is the most underappreciated guy this year and I think a part of it is his super reserved personality.

...or the obviously UR jumps and messy programs?

Does Max have a 3A combo?

Others have addressed the Zayak part of this but I just wanted to add that his current layout includes two 3As - one in combo (perfectly on the music).

Nerves will be in play. I recently watched Max’s last national’s short program(hadn’t seen it before). How awful that was for him. Some problems we don’t know about or just bad form that day? I hope no similar skates this nationals. Sure things happen around the skaters that we’ll never know about, but at least please no injury reports.

As ice coverage outlined, there were the complications after his hernia surgery, but also, in the pre-season GS interview, he mentioned dealing with "personal matters" during last season. What those were, we'll probably never know, but it's highly conceivable that his poor injury recovery combined with those personal issues and then added to a brand new program, spin changes, and jump layout changes created the perfect storm that was 2017 Nationals for him. I doubt we will see that sort of performance again.

The one thing we haven't seen yet from Max this season? A perfect SP. Even in China his SP had errors. And I have this gut feeling...if he does, it better be going over 95.
 
You guy are brave. I can't bring myself to write who I want in fear of jinxing it or stirring up the skating Gods.

I am happy Nationals is happening sooner rather than later because I am going to be a wreck until it is over. 11 DAYS!!
 
You guy are brave. I can't bring myself to write who I want in fear of jinxing it or stirring up the skating Gods.

I am happy Nationals is happening sooner rather than later because I am going to be a wreck until it is over. 11 DAYS!!

The way I figure it, everyone else has already jinxed it for me :laugh:
 
Updated poll numbers* -- Keep in mind that not everyone gave a full list either in the want/will column.

Who people want**
Nathan - 25.5
Max - 19.5
Adam - 17
Jason - 13.5
Vincent - 7
Alexei - 2.5
Ross -1.5
Skater not to be named (): 1.5
Sean - 1
Andrew -1

Who people think will get a spot
Nathan -29
Adam -24
Jason - 14
Max - 10
Vincent - 10

* 1 point if they're in a slot; 1/2 point if they're in a group for a single slot
** I gave ice coverage's "to close to call" 0.5 points for everyone on the board at the time she posted.
 
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The way I figure it, everyone else has already jinxed it for me :laugh:

You have to just throw it out there. At this stage, everyone has been jinxed, but it's a fair bet that someone will be standing on the podium!

So, by definition, the curse will be broken.
 
was watching the Team Usa Yearly awards for the Paralympics and the Olympics.

I saw Michelle hand out the award, chantelle receiving her bronze medal 9 years after beijing.

But i also saw the Team USA commercial that had Max, Jason in it. They looked like they enjoyed themselves.

They promoted the gloves that stated team usa.

They also Show commercial with Nathan Chen in it. as well as the Shibutani's,
than Show the commercial for U.S. Figure skating with Nathan, Ashley, Shibutani's in it.
 
I’m actually thrilled to see even a little love for Alexei K., number four on my wish list.

And why is he number four when he couldn’t spin his way out of a proverbial paper bag?:biggrin:

Because I *like* him (I can be his American babushka fan.:laugh:) I don’t care if liking a skater is a real criteria, it’s a criteria for me. ;) Alex K. is real. He’s giving you all he has and he shows it, when he’s happy, he’s happy, when he’s not happy with a performance, he also shows it. His jumps aren’t pretty (although some are: that 3A:shocked:), but they have power, and he has heart.

And this is in no way shape or form saying that there isn’t anything to like about the other skaters. Just me again.

#100PagesbyNatsorEvenChristmas?
 
I am pretty sure the USFSA will just go with #1, 2 and 3 at Nationals in men, ladies and dance, and #1 in pairs.

That said. who will it be? Nathan will be on the podium no matter if he misses all his quads. So now it's down to the other two spots. Compared to last season, Vincent has gone backward (at least he hasn't shown us anything yet), Jason has stayed the same, and Adam is has the momentum going into Nationals. That leaves Max in the "anything can happen" category. I have to stick with my boy Vincent, so i'll say Nathan, Adam and Vincent. :slink:
 
But i also saw the Team USA commercial that had Max, Jason in it. They looked like they enjoyed themselves.

The cute one where they were wearing Team USA mittens/scarves/beanies and hi-fived? THAT CLIP IS TOO FREAKIN' CUTE.

(I wish the shot of Jason leapfrogging over Max got in there as well! All of the shots we saw of Jason and Max interacting at that shoot was TOO MUCH ADORABLE OVERLOAD.)
 
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