2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[icellist]

I see the team event as Bradie for SP, Mirai for FS. They've been both consistent in those portions.

However, it's also contingent on which two disciplines USFSA chooses to swap. Reward the ice dance teams for their top 5 world's performances? Tire Nathan out with both portions?

 

[NAOTMAA]

I see the team event as Bradie for SP, Mirai for FS. They've been both consistent in those portions.

However, it's also contingent on which two disciplines USFSA chooses to swap. Reward the ice dance teams for their top 5 world's performances? Tire Nathan out with both portions?

I would switch that around. The LP requires more jumps and Bradie is far more solid in that department. At least she'll be guaranteed to rotate them all whereas Mirai is always a question mark.

But if their really serious they may give both segments to Bradie like Nathan13 suggests. It will depend on how tomorrows LP plays out

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

i think the only way she would be sent being out of the top three is if she's 4th and angela is 3rd. any lower and there's no way. i wouldn't necessarily refer to it as being "body of work" because that's slim pickins this season, but she knows how to compete under pressure and has a better international reputation.

I agree with what you wrote, and it might be a reason to choose a skater for Worlds, where results of non-medalists do matter. A good example would be picking Jason over Vincent at last year's Worlds, even though Jason wasn't a medal threat. At the Olympics, you either medal or you don't, and there's no real consequence for the skater or the federation as far as future international assignments are concerned.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I see the team event as Bradie for SP, Mirai for FS. They've been both consistent in those portions.

Why would the USFSA not go with the woman who has the highest SP, LP, and total scores this season (without any meltdowns) for both segments? There are very good reasons to go with 2 men (Nathan can rest and we have a few men who can post good LP scores) and 2 dance teams (We have a few good teams who could benefit from Olympic experience before the dance event and position themselves to medal there).

 

[Mathman]

Why would the USFSA not go with the woman who has the highest SP, LP, and total scores this season (without any meltdowns) for both segments?

I would be in favor of the USFSA announcing their policy for the team event before naming the team. Something like, the National Champion has the option of skating both programs if he/she/they want to. If not, then the second place gets to go. If there is a conflict between disciplines, then whichever second placer is closer to the champion gets the advantage.

Something like that. Just leaving it up to the whim of a committee as to which skater is gifted an Olympic medal and which one goes home empty-handed -- I think that should be avoided if possible.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I would be in favor of the USFSA announcing their policy for the team event before naming the team. Something like, the National Champion has the option of skating both programs if he/she/they want to. If not, then the second place gets to go. If there is a conflict between disciplines, then whichever second placer is closer to the champion gets the advantage.

That would be more merit-based, but it also wouldn't guarantee 6 medals, which would be a good thing. Also, I think the USFSA has some obligation to make the right choices on behalf of the skaters, especially for medal contenders in their discipline. I have no doubt that Nathan would volunteer to do both segments, but it really isn't a good idea with so little time between the team and the men's event.

 

[LiamForeman]

I see the team event as Bradie for SP, Mirai for FS. They've been both consistent in those portions.

However, it's also contingent on which two disciplines USFSA chooses to swap. Reward the ice dance teams for their top 5 world's performances? Tire Nathan out with both portions?

Oh I think the exact opposite. Nagasu with a 3axel SP would score well enough, and then Bradie with her seven triples in the LP would be a much smarter pick, IMO. The more triples in a program, the more it favors Bradie, since she has no UR issues. Putting Nagasu in the LP you could be looking at 5 URs! (Didn't she receive 5 already this year?)

 

[andromache]

I would be in favor of the USFSA announcing their policy for the team event before naming the team. Something like, the National Champion has the option of skating both programs if he/she/they want to. If not, then the second place gets to go. If there is a conflict between disciplines, then whichever second placer is closer to the champion gets the advantage.

Something like that. Just leaving it up to the whim of a committee as to which skater is gifted an Olympic medal and which one goes home empty-handed -- I think that should be avoided if possible.

That's nice and all, but we want to win!!!! (Even though all we're getting is a bronze, probably, lol.)

Russia and Canada are going to be strategic about their picks, and we should be, too.

(Two dance teams, two men, one pair, one lady - as long as that lady is Bradie. If Bradie isn't on the team for whatever reason, then two ladies and one dance team. Putting two clean performances back-to-back in the team event can build some nice momentum for Bradie going into the individual event. It won't catapult her to podium, but it could help her placement and will really test her mettle.)

 

[LiamForeman]

I was going through the USNats scores on icenetwork and...

American 12yo with 184 points and 7 triples in second half? :shocked::shocked::shocked:

Tell me it was recorded, because I've searched YT and couldnt' find anything.
I need the link ASAP! :hpull:

I could only find her Sectionals program which IIRC was clean too. She's small and consistent, and her jumps, particularly her 2axel are weak. I'm not betting the ranch on her development, seen too many of the same. Bebe Liang anyone??? I read a local article about her and her family and was surprised how personal it was (IE, her father and his partner had their five kids through egg donor and a surrogate, the last pregnancy resulting in triplets! Not sure I'd give that much detail in a local paper interview....)

 

[geige]

Oh I think the exact opposite. Nagasu with a 3axel SP would score well enough, and then Bradie with her seven triples in the LP would be a much smarter pick, IMO. The more triples in a program, the more it favors Bradie, since she has no UR issues. Putting Nagasu in the LP you could be looking at 5 URs! (Didn't she receive 5 already this year?)

That competition was the US Classic, her first international comp. of the season. Generally Mirai has shown better consistency in the LP this year (no UR at JO, 1 at NHK which was the 3A, but a couple at COR I think). However, I agree with you as Mirai’s scoring potential in the free isn’t great, whereas Bradie has achieved 137. Anyway, this discussion is too premature because part of me thinks that Mirai will bomb herself off the team in the free. (and this is coming from a massive fan of hers— this situation is all too familiar, unfortunately)

 

[mrrice]

I was going through the USNats scores on icenetwork and...

American 12yo with 184 points and 7 triples in second half? :shocked::shocked::shocked:

Tell me it was recorded, because I've searched YT and couldnt' find anything.
I need the link ASAP! :hpull:


Also, congrats to Karen for nice SP and the judges for recognizing the talent (unlike some US fans )

Did that really happen?? What was her name? Or was it a him?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Her name is Alysa Liu and she just won the junior title.

 

[frida80]

Did that really happen?? What was her name? Or was it a him?

How did you miss this? Of course it happened. Alysa has been burning up the ice all year. We need to talk more about juniors! I was super proud of her. She’s scored a 180 in a club competition, so I knew she could win. However, she won’t be age eligible for the JGP until 2019-2020.

 

[travelbug]

Karen spent too much time this season hopping from one program to the next while never giving any of them a chance. And in the end went back to old glories thinking that would magically set things right again. I don't know how any skater can correct an underrotation problem when their too busy switching programs like they were trying on dresses for prom

Has she done any clean 3-3 all week long? All the practice reports I've seen here and elsewhere say they were all obviously underrotated. Not even close to borderline but clear even to the most inexperienced of viewers

Definitely won't be able to ad any reports from today to the mix to help answer your question.

One tweeter said she just practiced on unofficial ice.

ESPN says she missed practice because she's sick (which I suppose could really still just mean she DID actually practice but on unofficial ice like the other tweet indicates)

But after struggling with consistency, if she really is actually sick going into tomorrow, that probably doesn't bode well for her stamina / likelihood to fully rotate.

Defending champion Karen Chen (right) missed practice due to illness today at U.S. figure skating nationals. Chen is currently third ahead of the women's long program tomorrow.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0740673843269474008-4

 

[klutzy]

Definitely won't be able to ad any reports from today to the mix to help answer your question.

One tweeter said she just practiced on unofficial ice.

ESPN says she missed practice because she's sick (which I suppose could really still just mean she DID actually practice but on unofficial ice like the other tweet indicates)

But after struggling with consistency, if she really is actually sick going into tomorrow, that probably doesn't bode well for her stamina / likelihood to fully rotate.



http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0740673843269474008-4

Ooh boy. She might pull it through anyway. My sense of Chen is that she way overthinks things. Sometimes feeling under par helps that kind of performer, just because it makes one concentrate on the task at hand.

I've thought for a while that the Olympic team with Bradie, Mirai OR Ashley, but not both, and then one of the other contenders--Karen, Mariah, maybe even Angela Wang (or Polina if she miraculously summons a clean FS.). I think the fed would prefer not to send two skaters close to retirement, particularly since there are no serious medal hopes. Right now, I'd say that Mirai is favored over Ashley because she's shown she's still adding to her skills and evolving as a skater. Ashley really isn't--and her use of an SP that she peaked with back in 2016 just kind of emphasized that fact to the judges. I think the top three we saw is actually the fed's preference--solid Bradie, high-risk/high-gain Mirai and potentially magic Karen--but the fed and the judges are a little tired of inconsistent skaters, so they'll hold the line a bit this time.

 

[MarinHondas]

Even if they aren't "letting their skates speak for themselves" (because, duh, when you make mistakes, people in interviews ask you about them, and you have to respond with SOMETHING), they are taking ownership of their preparation and how they delivered or didn't deliver.

Letting the skate speak for itself is something you only get to do when you skate clean - it's not fair to the ones who make mistakes for that to be the ultimate interviewing standard. But you can still take ownership of what is working and what isn't working in your own skating.

Ashley: "I’m the kind of skater where my main focus going into the short program is to not get too far behind,” she said. “I know my strengths and I know my weaknesses. It’s a familiar position for me for sure. For me I’m a long program skater and that’s where I make my money."

Mirai: "I was so nervous but I fought against my nerves,” she said. “This is what I’ve been trying for. This has been my dream. I’ve worked so long for this.”

For example, I'd love to hear Karen say something like "I am working really hard on correcting my underrotation on my 3-3." But to my knowledge she's never acknowledged that in any interviews I've read or seen.

I love Karen. She is actually my favorite American lady I think but she never even acknowledges that the 3-3 is an issue. She always says she's super happy with her program or something to that effect even if the 3-3 was under. EX. 2017 US Classic she called her 3-3 strong even tho it was UR. ugh.

 

[Feline Feeder]

If you have a Grand Prix Finale medal, you should be able to get to bump someone if you have a bad day. I agreed with the decision to put Ashley on the team 4 years ago. She was a medal contender (to some extent) then. If Nathan has a cold or pulls a muscle and skates badly this weekend or (God forbid) has to pull out, he should still be put on the team. Making the GPF isn't enough, so if Max and Vincent outskate Jason and Adam, they should be the other two men.

The "ladies" should be top 3. Period. Also, I believe that if they put Ashley on the team (again) over a better skating Asian, there will be serious charges of discrimination raised in the media or even a lawsuit.

May the best skaters win!

 

[Spirals for Miles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1luUC4JQe8
Don't know if this has been posted yet.

 

[Procrastinator]

I’m not sure one can pull out the race card when Mirai and Karen are so inconsistent and Ashley is the only world medalist/has been the fed standard-bearer for more than two quads now.

And sorry to the max fans on this forum, but he’s not going. Not unless he finishes top 2, which is unlikely. Adam and Jason’s PCS advantage on him is probably 15 points across both segments. And Adam is far more consistent. But that’s for another thread.

Again, I don’t think the judges are sending Ashley any message other than rotate your jumps and have fewer crossovers in your programs. We have one data point to work with so far. Everyone is just projecting their own feelings (because they’re tired of Ashley, don’t like her, like others more, dislike her using an old program) onto the black box that is PCS.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think the fed would prefer not to send two skaters close to retirement, particularly since there are no serious medal hopes.

I haven't given up hope on a ladies medal. I think if we send Amber Glenn, have her change her programs to match Sotskova's, and then trick Maria into skating in Amber's place, there is a possibility of a medal.