2018 US Men's Oly/World/4CC team announced

[combinationspin]

But there are so many who are not. Look at Sean Rabbit who, from what I can tell, trains all year specifically to give a performance at Nationals. Not to medal, but to have a moment. From what I can tell the vast majority of the skaters who qualify for Nationals by skating at Sectionals know that they are not going to podium at Nationals or make a world team EVER. I hope their coaches are straight with them about what their abilities are. They still want to go to Nationals anyway. To get a season's best or personal best or to get some competitive experience or to skate on the same ice as their idols. It's like the Olympics. Most people don't win their heat or qualify for the final or whatever. People still want to go even if they know they aren't going to win a medal.

This is not true for Ross and his coach, though, according to the coach’s words https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?68497-2018-US-Men-s-Oly-World-4CC-team-announced&p=1917017&viewfull=1#post1917017

 

[moonvine]

The national champion isn’t guaranteed a place at the Olympics any more. That’s specifically stated, and I believe it’s also true for Worlds.

Nathan’s selection was basically automatic because he’s outperformed every US male skater for the past two years = body of work, not just because he placed first here.

I think Nathan could have skated out and touched the ice, finished in last and STILL gone. And he should have because he's the best figure skater we have right now.

 

[moonvine]

The whole thing I think proves more then anything that Max Aaron NEVER stood a chance

he could have artistically become Nureyev and Nijinsky reincarnated and land his jumps but it would never have made them stray from the Chen-Rippon-Brown team

I disagree. They've been promoting him (along with Ashley, Jason, and Nathan) pretty heavily on the Olympic Channel.

 

[moonvine]

I feel so bad for Ross. Personally, I prefer Adam’s skating, but throwing over the silver medalist for him? I understand the decision, but I don’t need to like it.

Here is what I don’t understand, and frankly, appears inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst: how can it be OK to replace Ross with Adam, but yet be some major outrage to name Jason as first alternate? If the body of work of Adam means that it is somehow acceptable that he should go to the Olys instead of Ross, that same body of work places Jason ahead of Ross. Either it is applied to all skaters, or it is not applied at all.

Since First Alternate means as much as Miss Congeniality, not sure it really matters.....

I kind of expected Jason to be named First Alternate really. As far as what it means, tell that to Emily Hughes or any other athlete who's been called up from the alternate list.

 

[moonvine]

Or maybe they're afraid of the coaches/lawyers/parents of certain skaters and don't want to get them mad. IIRC, the story was that Polina was ready to hire a lawyer if she wasn't put on the team. Don't know if it's true or not, but I read it someplace (possibly here). Same with the story about Max's mother.

Polina was 16. She wasn't old enough to sign a contract with an attorney. Maybe her parents, but not her.

 

[moonvine]

This whole situation reminds me of the movie Stick it, which is about gymnastics, but at a competition a girl does a phenomenal vault and then gets a deduction for an obscure rule and the commentator says - this is why the sport loses fans, fans just saw an amazing performance and don't understand why a gymnast was not rewarded.

Casual fans don't understand the scoring. I don't entirely understand it myself and I work at it. They don't understand why someone like Jason, (assume Jason lands everything cleanly, no popping, etc) has a beautiful skate and someone else falls twice and beats him (because of the value of quads). They don't understand gymnastics scoring either. NCAA gymnastics still uses 10.0 system and people understand it and love it and I think it's as popular as elite gymnastics if not more so. My team sells out their meets every week all season.

 

[Blades of Passion]

It also brings into question how they chose Edmunds over Nagasu in 2014. B/c if BOW mattered then, certainly one could easily justify Nagasu over Edmunds - and I will remind all again that Nagasu had a great showing at Rostelecom that year.

Nagasu's showing at 2013 Rostelecom was less impressive than Edmund's showing on the Junior Grand Prix that season and Nagasu hadn't skated well for 3 years, nor was Nagasu's showing at Nationals or Rostelecom anything that would come close to challenging the top skates in the World. Edmunds was doing difficult 3-3's that Nagasu wasn't and her overall skating was better than Nagau's too. She was an easy pick to be sent.

 

[moonvine]

Can someone explain why Grant wasn't given an alternate spot? He beat Jason and Max and was completely passed over.

I was under the impression that he was retiring.

 

[Tavi...]

Well in the last three GP seasons Ashley has two gold medals and a bronze while Karen has yet to win, or come close to, a single medal on the circuit

I do believe Ashley was expected to make the GPF but surely as national champion (and clearly US #1 after Gracie was gone) Karen was too. If anything Karen was much worse this season then Ashley was and I would have thought expectations for her were far higher. Her record this season has to be the most disappointing for the USFSA because she was national champ and 4th at last worlds.

Ashley has a better record then Jason does, has done much more for US skating then Jason has, and did better at these nationals too, so its weird to see Jason still getting the red carpet treatment while Ashley has been uninvited

Ashley and Jason have identical assignments: first alternates to Worlds and Olympics, assigned to 4CCs.

 

[dailytg20]

I notice that Sports Illustrated altered the social media title of their article on the three being selected to "Ross Miner finished second at the US figure skating national championships but was not selected for the team."


Just anecdotally I know a few newbies who don't get how this works as opposed to "real" sports. I've also had casual fans tell me that this is why they don't follow the sport so closely any more and unfortunately you have to have follow the sport closely or these body of work / future of figure skating calculations make little sense. And even if you do follow the sport closely these backdoor decisions are still mysterious, unsatisfying and suspect as evidenced by the reactions in this thread and by insiders on social media.

I feel bad for Ross and this increasingly insular sport.

 

[moonvine]

Well in the last three GP seasons Ashley has two gold medals and a bronze while Karen has yet to win, or come close to, a single medal on the circuit

I do believe Ashley was expected to make the GPF but surely as national champion (and clearly US #1 after Gracie was gone) Karen was too. If anything Karen was much worse this season then Ashley was and I would have thought expectations for her were far higher. Her record this season has to be the most disappointing for the USFSA because she was national champ and 4th at last worlds.

Ashley has a better record then Jason does, has done much more for US skating then Jason has, and did better at these nationals too, so its weird to see Jason still getting the red carpet treatment while Ashley has been uninvited

Honestly I wonder if Ashley's FURIOUSNESS came into play. The selection committee is human.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Nagasu's showing at 2013 Rostelecom was less impressive than Edmund's showing on the Junior Grand Prix that season and Nagasu hadn't skated well for 3 years, nor was Nagasu's showing at Nationals or Rostelecom anything that would come close to challenging the top skates in the World. Edmunds was doing difficult 3-3's that Nagasu wasn't and her overall skating was better than Nagau's too. She was an easy pick to be sent.

Right. You also have to remember the image of both skaters at that time too. Polina was the one with a promising future while Mirai was considered lazy and had too much baggage. She spent the majority of the quad, 2011-2014, practically sleep walking and looking like she wanted to be anywhere but on the ice. She looked like she didn't give a ****. She only put her foot to the pedal and stated taking things seriously heading into those nationals. The feeling was, "well Ashley worked her ass off for four years while Mirai didn't so we got to reward Ashley despite the messy nationals." Mirai of course learned her lesson and while her results are still mixed up her attitude is far better. People forget that or choose to ignore it

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This post is much appreciated.

And, if Rippon wants to represent TeamUSA like an Olympian, he might catch a clue that sarcasm and humor don’t go over well internationally. For starters, they lose in translation, words are taken literally, many cultures don’t use “humor” that way and don’t understand it.

So he needs to censor himself and ensure everything he says is easily translated without things getting misunderstood?

 

[Violet Bliss]

I like the idea of the guaranteed Worlds or Olympic spot for the National Champion as a motivation for skaters on the margin who want to put up a fight and not concede like others who just want to participate at the Nationals. Every Olympic dream should be given a chance. Having that dream killed early with no possibility of going to the Olympics is very demoralizing and would conceivably lead to more giving up instead of striving to realize the highest potential.

Let the skaters be motivated all the way with a possible chance like a knockout in boxing.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Honestly I wonder if Ashley's FURIOUSNESS came into play. The selection committee is human.

Yeah it probably would have been smarter not to start being so FURIOUS until after the Olympic team was announced (if she still missed). Trashing them immediately after the LP and before the committee probably met likely didn't endear her to them. That's just bad business sense and pr when dealing with the powers who hold your fate

 

[ice coverage]

Sincere non-argumentative questions re Max:

... They've been promoting him (along with Ashley, Jason, and Nathan) pretty heavily on the Olympic Channel.

I have only rare access to the Olympic Channel, so I am surprised to hear that the Olympic Channel had been promoting Max.
It would please me to know that OC considered him to be in the mix. (Up until the Men's SP.)

Then I assume that Olympic Channel had been promoting Adam too? How about Vincent?​

Or maybe they're afraid of the coaches/lawyers/parents of certain skaters and don't want to get them mad. IIRC, the story was that Polina was ready to hire a lawyer if she wasn't put on the team. Don't know if it's true or not, but I read it someplace (possibly here). Same with the story about Max's mother.

Polina was 16. She wasn't old enough to sign a contract with an attorney. Maybe her parents, but not her.

What was the "story about Max's mother" and what was the source of the story? Something in relation to 2014?

(Sorry that I have not read the whole thread. I don't have a recollection of any such story?)​

I was under the impression that he was retiring.

---

Regarding Grant:

I spoke to Grant's mother mid-week. She basically told me that nothing was final regarding the possibility of retirement after this season.​

 

[AngelENTL]

Right. You also have to remember the image of both skaters at that time too. Polina was the one with a promising future while Mirai was considered lazy and had too much baggage. She spent the majority of the quad, 2011-2014, practically sleep walking and looking like she wanted to be anywhere but on the ice. She looked like she didn't give a ****. She only put her foot to the pedal and stated taking things seriously heading into those nationals. The feeling was, "well Ashley worked her ass off for four years while Mirai didn't so we got to reward Ashley despite the messy nationals." Mirai of course learned her lesson and while her results are still mixed up her attitude is far better. People forget that or choose to ignore it

To reiterate - the question I pose is not Ashley vs Mirai 2014; it's Ashley vs Polina 2014 and BOW. If you want to factor in JGP, then it should be specifically referenced in the BOW criteria; as far as I know, it is not even in the current criteria.

As an aside, I question the soundness of the "promising future" rationale. I've a feeling if Polina hadn't already been to the Olympics, she would've taken this run a lot more seriously, and a serious Polina would've been a force to be reckoned with. I will wonder the same if in 4 years Vincent Zhou is no longer on the men's scene.

 

[NAOTMAA]

To reiterate - the question I pose is not Ashley vs Mirai 2014; it's Ashley vs Polina 2014 and BOW. If you want to factor in JGP, then it should be specifically referenced in the BOW criteria; as far as I know, it is not even in the current criteria.

As an aside, I question the soundness of the "promising future" rationale. I've a feeling if Polina hadn't already been to the Olympics, she would've taken this run a lot more seriously, and a serious Polina would've been a force to be reckoned with. I will wonder the same if in 4 years Vincent Zhou is no longer on the men's scene.

True she was rather inconsistent during the GP but she was top 10 twice at worlds and won 4CC, all which happened after the Olympics. She also showed enormous growth with her Moonlight Sonata SP and came close to winning those nationals. I'm not sure how it looked like she wasn't taking things seriously. It's not her fault she got injured and couldn't keep moving forward

 

[AngelENTL]

Nagasu's showing at 2013 Rostelecom was less impressive than Edmund's showing on the Junior Grand Prix that season and Nagasu hadn't skated well for 3 years, nor was Nagasu's showing at Nationals or Rostelecom anything that would come close to challenging the top skates in the World. Edmunds was doing difficult 3-3's that Nagasu wasn't and her overall skating was better than Nagau's too. She was an easy pick to be sent.

If you feel this way about Edmunds being an easy pick over Nagasu, not sure why you don't feel similarly about Zhou over Miner.

 

[notunprepared]

Are there any videos of the post announcement interview? I saw transcripts, but has anyone posted the video? I'd like to watch it