- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
I'm working on getting them up - all the Junior Ladies will eventually be on this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl2nPqXDyvfgg04Wc4Y5ziv4_oO_M7ls7
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
I'm working on getting them up - all the Junior Ladies will eventually be on this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl2nPqXDyvfgg04Wc4Y5ziv4_oO_M7ls7
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
MarinHondas, you have totally misread my post. I get it. I was born in Philadelphia, am totally American. I speak very good Spanish, and my French, Italian and Portuguese are above average, German is a nightmare but I can do it. So I know no Japanese, unfortunately, which I'm assuming you speak, and I do applaud you on your English. However, you totally didn't read my post correctly. I am not rooting against ANYONE. I am one who after studying the marks at USN that I was kind of shocked at how low-balled Ashley was. I mean, Bradie gets 9.75 (!!!!!) for performance when Ashley only gets 8.25??? I'm rooting for great performances, that's all. And since this will be Ashley's last performance, I want her to nail it and kick it out of the stadium. Not wishing ill will on anyone. Someday I might learn Japanese, but until then I prefer to only write in English..... It might take a while to understand nuances, which you seem to lack in the English language. I just want Ashley to skate well and make those judges wonder why they lowballed her.
Also, I wanted the Japanese team to be Wakaba, and yes, Marin Honda....
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
Thank you so much for putting up these videos! Pooja and Ting really stood out to me so far although I haven’t watched all of them.
The ball is fully in her court at this point...it’s up to her how she wants to be remembered.
Wagner has been on the beneficiary side as well as far as PCS go...many times...you know - you win some, you lose some.
That said, it would be nice to see a little consistency in the scoring unless something is terribly off - and there needs to be an on-the-record mechanism where judges explain their marks clearly to prevent situations where the skater is confused or perceives mixed messages. The protocol sheets aren’t quite enough...
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
It might be too early to ask this question but, does anyone know what Polina's plans are for the future? Is she going to retire and focus on school? I think she learned this year just how difficult it can be to go to school fulltime and be a fulltime skater. It's not like most collegiate sports with season that only lasts 2 to 3 months. To be at the top, it's a minimum 10 month commitment between training and competitions. Especially if she makes the World Team again.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
She didn’t answer definitively...just said she needs to get better and than she’ll assess her situation. Could go either way but I see no reason not to hope for the best. She’s still got a lot to offer IMO.
After an frustrating season like hers, she'll go through a lot of self reflection. I think if she decides to continue she'll be more determined than ever.
I feel really bad for her. I know this wasn't the result she wanted.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
This is where we disagree. Ashley fully earns all of her PCS marks. Performance, composition and interpretation are where she really shines; and her skills in these categories are why she is so beloved by audiences. She gives people an experience of emotion and beauty. We need more skaters like her.
Some people sneer about her skating skills and transitions, but I've heard several commentators, all of whom were competitive skaters, coaches and/or choreographers, praise Ashley's skating in these categories as well. I'm inclined to believe Nicky, Chris, Kurt, Carol et. al. over many GS'rs who have A LOT against Ashley and want to further their own agendas.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I'm an Ashley fan without an anti-Ashley agenda!!! At least on television, her skating skills and transitions are lacking, not at all badly against her American competition - but internationally, yes
The performance and interpretation are stellar, obviously, and skaters tend to be scored by their best component, at least from what I've noticed. Sure, Ashley has sometimes had what I perceive to be "inflated" components compared to some competitors. But international judges seemed to score her fairly consistently in PCS the last two seasons - it was only here at nationals that she received "deflated" components. Which might be accurate on a "deflated" scale, but may be less accurate if everyone else's are inflated. There's really no way to determine how PCS should be awarded except by comparison to other and to previous performances, because they aren't truly quantifiable and objective.
I'd love to see Ashley kick some butt at 4CCs to "prove" herself to everyone who thought she didn't deserve an Olympic spot, but I imagine she's probably feeling very demotivated, and she'd be just as likely to skate poorly and thus "confirm" that USFS was right about her. It's tough to get demoted near the end of your career, especially when you aren't being obviously obviously outclassed by your domestic competition. It's one thing if it's clearly inevitable due to the rise of mega-talents, like we see in Russia and Japan, but getting dumped for someone who isn't obviously better than you probably hurts worse.
In retrospect, Ashley's biggest mistake this season was not using La La Land from the start. With a few more outings, it would've developed into more of a showstopper.
I've seen Ashley live several times prior to this nationals, and it was her performance (I only saw the FS live) here that impressed me the least. Even at 2014 Nationals, where she skated poorly, you sensed fight from her. She put it all out there, even if it the result wasn't great.
I liked the La La Land program, she had a solid performance of it, but that's about all I can say about it. Obviously Ashley might see it differently judging by the reaction by the end of her skate. But honestly, nearly a week after the free skate, not much of her FS is memorable to me. She had an opportunity to use her WSM as a launching pad for further growth, and instead she languished.
Karen fought. She fought for every jumping pass. She wasn't taking anything for granted and by the end, she had me tearing up. She deserved every one of those URs, but that PCS score was deserved in my book. She laid it all out on the line.
Bradie's PCS was probably a bit high, but the girl slayed it technically. She was definitely nervous too, but she fought too.
Ashley likes to label herself the fighter of Team USA ladies. But the top 3 ladies fought way more than her that night and that's why they're on the Olympic team and she's not.
YMMV.
ETA: I still like Ashley generally and I'm coming from a viewpoint where I'm not invested in U.S. ladies generally, but I think it's hard to deny that Ashley hasn't been at the level she was in the 2015-2016 season. And while not as drastic as USFS, her PCS had been dropping slowly internationally as well. She was in the low 70s by GPF during the 2016-2017. She maxed out at 73+ by Worlds, but then it started dropping. We have one data point this season, Skate Canada, where she earned 67.50. That's six points for Worlds 2016. That's pretty telling.
IMO, USFS tends to take the cues of what judges are doing internationally, not the other way around.
I liked the La La Land program, she had a solid performance of it, but that's about all I can say about it. Obviously Ashley might see it differently judging by the reaction by the end of her skate. But honestly, nearly a week after the free skate, not much of her FS is memorable to me. She had an opportunity to use her WSM as a launching pad for further growth, and instead she languished.
Karen fought. She fought for every jumping pass. She wasn't taking anything for granted and by the end, she had me tearing up. She deserved every one of those URs, but that PCS score was deserved in my book. She laid it all out on the line.
Bradie's PCS was probably a bit high, but the girl slayed it technically. She was definitely nervous too, but she fought too.
Ashley likes to label herself the fighter of Team USA ladies. But the top 3 ladies fought way more than her that night and that's why they're on the Olympic team and she's not.
YMMV.
ETA: I still like Ashley generally and I'm coming from a viewpoint where I'm not invested in U.S. ladies generally, but I think it's hard to deny that Ashley hasn't been at the level she was in the 2015-2016 season. And while not as drastic as USFS, her PCS had been dropping slowly internationally as well. She was in the low 70s by GPF during the 2016-2017. She maxed out at 73+ by Worlds, but then it started dropping. We have one data point this season, Skate Canada, where she earned 67.50. That's six points for Worlds 2016. That's pretty telling.
IMO, USFS tends to take the cues of what judges are doing internationally, not the other way around.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
In Ashley's defense, La La Land isn't a "fight" kind of program. It's softer, more sublime. Either that kept us from seeing the fight behind the outward expression, or embodying the character kept her from having the fire she needed to fight.
I do think that Ashley has rested on her laurels in the past and at certain competitions, but I suspect it's not out of arrogance but technical and physical limitation. She's had a remarkably long career with zero long-term injuries to take her out of competition and never taking off a Grand Prix season (skating at several GPFs, too). But there's been plenty of damage done to her body over the years, including numerous concussions that have impacted her memory. Spin positions cause plenty of back pain. Who knows what else. Injuries ended Mao's career - she's another skater who, despite her 3A, had plenty of jump technique issues so that she couldn't just trust her jumps.
Ashley is a fighter. But this time the fight wasn't enough, which happens.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
This is exactly how that post came off to me. Not at all complimentary to the Japanese ladies who are a strong team and hoping Ashley medals at 4CC while the U.S. ladies don't at the Olympics as sort of a 'so there' to the USFSA. Perhaps it was not the intention but that's how it read to me.
I guess I should be clear. When I say fight -- I mean also the fire in her performance. I came away from LLL saying. "That's nice." I think had she come out and really embodied the character and really performed I wouldn't feel this way.
I'm trying to be careful because I'm sure Ashley did what she could to get on that team, but at the same time, I feel like she didn't keep herself in check regarding where she was in her skating, especially relative to her competitors.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
I thought the same thing. LaLa Land was “nice”, but not a showstopper and certainly not as dramatic as what we’re used to seeing from Ashley. It could grow on me though....
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2014
I loved seeing a slightly different flavor of artistry from Ashley in LLL. Light, fresh, delicate. Given dramatic programs are her specialty, I would never have known that was in her wheelhouse.
Jump problems and the loss of the judges' favor behind the scenes seem more like the issue to me. It seems like people feel she wasn't projecting the right attitude. I don't know how hard she did or didn't work, but maybe she was satisfied with her performances because she skated up to the level she'd been practicing. I tend to agree with andromache that physical deterioration probably caught up with her.
USFS still could have given her a nice Olympic farewell if they'd been so inclined. All they had to do was give her usual PCS. She and Karen are at a similar level of underperformance this season, except Karen got the credit for those three spots last year. I don't expect Karen to skate better than Ashley would have at the Olympics.
Jump problems and the loss of the judges' favor behind the scenes seem more like the issue to me. It seems like people feel she wasn't projecting the right attitude. I don't know how hard she did or didn't work, but maybe she was satisfied with her performances because she skated up to the level she'd been practicing. I tend to agree with andromache that physical deterioration probably caught up with her.
USFS still could have given her a nice Olympic farewell if they'd been so inclined. All they had to do was give her usual PCS. She and Karen are at a similar level of underperformance this season, except Karen got the credit for those three spots last year. I don't expect Karen to skate better than Ashley would have at the Olympics.
Felt just the same and I think that more mileage would definitely have improved her program and her chances to podium. I will never understand why she (apparently) never showed it to Champs camp or at a summer senior B to get an early perspective from somebody outside her team.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
I should have used a qualifier, like "not all." My sincere apologies!
Valid criticism doesn't necessarily have an agenda. I'll edit the post.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Lol you don't have to. I wasn't taking you too seriously - I get it. Haters gonna hate. My exclamation points were more out of excitement than, like, negativity. Like "ME ME ME I HAVE AN OPINION!!!!" Not like, "OH NO YOU ARE SO WRONG!"
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2016
She said that she offered to show it at Champs Camp but they didn't fell like it was necessary or something.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
And we're back full circle. Bradie's technical slayage and Karen's fight were both admirable. But their PCS scores were inflated, while Ashley's were deflated. If they'd all been treated similarly in that respect, we'd be having a completely different conversation, and there wouldn't be a feeling that the judges did not treat Ashley with fairness.
Similar threads
