2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
This has been my vote all along. Give Ross the magic and give Vincent the legit chance to grow and blossom. They both win... everyone wins.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
They used Ashley over Polina for the team event in Sochi and she was 4th.
I seem to recall world standings being a factor in who does the team event, so I think Adam has a chance... I thought he did till i heard the rumors they were using Bradie and Mirai for the team event... and I can't see USFSA not splitting Ice Dancing. I fear they may be going for broke and want Nathan in both... i just hope Nathan does not break in the process.
If the USA is within striking distance of a silver after the short then it would make sense to use Nathan twice. But what if they are locked into the bronze? Then you have to think politics and PR will come into play. Adam is the media darling. The ladies is the most popular discipline. The ice dance teams are arguably the most deserving. How do you choose between them?
What truly added insult to injury was not even making Ross the 1st alternate for either one.
You mean 20 years later, right?
In terms of Ross's body of work, I share his surprise that seemingly absolutely nothing he did at Nationals could have had any impact. He really couldn't have exceeded silver unless Nathan had a complete meltdown. His best made no difference weighted against his prior results. That IS shocking. I'll repeat what many have said, that the selection criteria are deliberately unclear. Assigning skaters cumulative point standings over the course of the current and prior seasons would offer some clarity. Still, Nationals is definitely devalued.
Since Ross didn’t do too well early in the season he also needed implosions from the other men with a better BOW. Vincent and Adam arguably didn’t implode too much.
Same here!
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I just want to add: I saw a lot of talk about how Ross and Grant should have got assignments because it was their last seasons, and I was so pleased to see Grant pick up 4CC after Ross withdrew. But I'm just as glad they chose Max, because even though he hasn't said anything, I fear...I fear it. And I am so glad that that horrible US Nationals will not be the last we see of him.
Why should Adam (who I love) get 2 bumps while a the Lowe finishers both get only 1.
I don't think Vincent should get bumped for Worlds again for this year.
I really love Adam, but with his poor showing at Nationals, I really not sure he should have gotten 2 bumps.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I don't understand what you mean. I meant that the Olympics team should have been Nathan, Adam, Ross and the Worlds team should have been Nathan, Adam, Vincent.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2014
I think I'm on the same page with Mark Mitchell. Body of work should really only come into play in order to guarantee that individual medal contenders make the team. That doesn't apply to Ross, my sentimental favorite Adam, or Vincent. It only applies to Nathan and the three ice dance teams. But none of them faltered.
Honestly, I really underestimated how far USFS would go with this whole body of work thing. I pretty much in agreement that Nathan and the three dance teams were the only ones I would extend body of work for.
In a different time, they would have left Adam at home with his nationals performance. They certainly did with Jeremy Abbott in 2011 and 2013, and both times for Ross. Things have a weird way of cycling.
I guess we're in a new time.
In a different time, they would have left Adam at home with his nationals performance. They certainly did with Jeremy Abbott in 2011 and 2013, and both times for Ross. Things have a weird way of cycling.
I guess we're in a new time.
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- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
I can’t believe it, but 4CCs is nearly here! Which means that in a few days we’ll have a chance to see how Jason, Max, and Grant are doing post-Nats. I’m sure it was a tough competition for all three of them.
I haven’t seen any updates on Grant or Max, but according to social media, Jason was in Virginia this week, training with Audrey Weisiger (and in non-training time, reflecting at the Lincoln Memorial
).
It would be great if all three of our guys could improve on their past 4CC finishes, but although the competition this year won’t be nearly as tough as it was last year, Shoma, Boyang, D10 (surely in pre-Olympics mode by now), Elladj, and Misha Ge, among others, are all strong competitors. So our guys will really need to work hard to place well, and that starts with being in a good place mentally.
Here’s hoping that all three of them are able move forward, and give the kind of performances we know they’re capable of.
I haven’t seen any updates on Grant or Max, but according to social media, Jason was in Virginia this week, training with Audrey Weisiger (and in non-training time, reflecting at the Lincoln Memorial
). It would be great if all three of our guys could improve on their past 4CC finishes, but although the competition this year won’t be nearly as tough as it was last year, Shoma, Boyang, D10 (surely in pre-Olympics mode by now), Elladj, and Misha Ge, among others, are all strong competitors. So our guys will really need to work hard to place well, and that starts with being in a good place mentally.
Here’s hoping that all three of them are able move forward, and give the kind of performances we know they’re capable of.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Good luck to Max, Jason, and Grant at Four Continents :yay:.
For those who like memorabilia:
For those who like memorabilia:
The 2018 Topps cards of U.S. Olympic and Paralympic hopefuls (from all sports) apparently are scheduled to be released on Jan 26.
Production of the 2018 cards started months ago, but seems that Topps did a surprisingly good job of predicting the men's figure skating team (according to Cardboard Connection's set checklist -- IIRC from 2014, it would be against GS guidelines to give the link).
Nathan, Vincent, and Adam are featured on 2018 cards.
[No Jason
.]
Jeremy is included in the broadest "Base Set" category for 2018 (as he was in 2014), as well as other categories. Same for Meryl and Charlie, so I guess it was intentional to include some familiar faces from 2014 in the base set.
Boitano, Weir, Yamaguchi, Kwan are the only four cards in the special category of "Olympic Champions Autographs Set."
Ladies in the base set and other categories: Karen, Ashley, Gracie.
Ice dancers in the base set and other categories: Madi H, Zach, Maia S, Alex S, Madi C, Evan B.
[No pair at all. In 2014, Caydee and John C had cards.]
Production of the 2018 cards started months ago, but seems that Topps did a surprisingly good job of predicting the men's figure skating team (according to Cardboard Connection's set checklist -- IIRC from 2014, it would be against GS guidelines to give the link).
Nathan, Vincent, and Adam are featured on 2018 cards.
[No Jason
.]Jeremy is included in the broadest "Base Set" category for 2018 (as he was in 2014), as well as other categories. Same for Meryl and Charlie, so I guess it was intentional to include some familiar faces from 2014 in the base set.
Boitano, Weir, Yamaguchi, Kwan are the only four cards in the special category of "Olympic Champions Autographs Set."
Ladies in the base set and other categories: Karen, Ashley, Gracie.
[No Mirai and no Mariah .
No Bradie either, but not surprising, given that her breakthrough did not begin until summer 2017.]
and no Mariah .No Bradie either, but not surprising, given that her breakthrough did not begin until summer 2017.]
Ice dancers in the base set and other categories: Madi H, Zach, Maia S, Alex S, Madi C, Evan B.
[No pair at all
. In 2014, Caydee and John C had cards.]ETA (on Jan 26):
As expected, the release date was/is Jan 26 (today).
The official checklist (from Topps) of Olympic and Paralympic athletes on the 2018 cards:
The official checklist (from Topps) of Olympic and Paralympic athletes on the 2018 cards:
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
Looks like Caroline is traveling with Grant to 4CC...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeMEmdKAlIt/?taken-by=grantoline
Hope that doesn't stop BFFs Grant and Jason from getting together as well
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeMEmdKAlIt/?taken-by=grantoline
Hope that doesn't stop BFFs Grant and Jason from getting together as well
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
It's not a time I enjoy.
I can't say I don't like the men's team we're sending, because I do- but I don't necessarily like the way it was achieved.
The body of work thing misses a key component - and that is momentum. A skater on the rise, someone who has gotten their act together when it means the most - could be at a disadvantage to a skater on a downward trajectory.
And to be really blunt: Why is Adam's non-medal more deserving than Ross's non-medal? The only possible explanation I can think of is that they thought Adam would be a more reliable back-up to Nathan in the team event.
I guess the argument is that Adam has had FAR more medals than non medals and Ross' medal was a notable outlier in a sea of non-medals. Prior to U.S. Nationals, his last medal of any kind was in Oct. 2015, at Rostelecom Cup, which was an odd situation, cause he had initially placed 4th behind Adam, but it turned out they made an error on the value of one of his spins and once that was factored, he had beaten Adam for bronze.
Adam medaled at all his events in the last two seasons except during his two GPF appearances. TPTB saw Adam's non-medal at Nationals as the opposite kind of outlier.
Jason has been far less consistent in the last two seasons for various reason, but he's medaled more than Ross too, including at least one of his two GPs for the last 5 years, all of his senior Bs and not to mention placing 7th with a huge score at Worlds. Although one could argue that Jason's meltdown at Nationals seem to be the latest in an up-and-down season. He has a chance to remind TPTB that they were not wrong to give him that first alternate spot with a strong 4CC performance. We'll see.
Adam medaled at all his events in the last two seasons except during his two GPF appearances. TPTB saw Adam's non-medal at Nationals as the opposite kind of outlier.
Jason has been far less consistent in the last two seasons for various reason, but he's medaled more than Ross too, including at least one of his two GPs for the last 5 years, all of his senior Bs and not to mention placing 7th with a huge score at Worlds. Although one could argue that Jason's meltdown at Nationals seem to be the latest in an up-and-down season. He has a chance to remind TPTB that they were not wrong to give him that first alternate spot with a strong 4CC performance. We'll see.
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Mrs. P, I wasn't clear in my writing. I guess I'm saying that neither Ross nor Adam would be on my list of potential Olympic medalists. So, USFSA would not have risked a medal if they had left Adam off the team. At the Olympics, they would both be non-medalists. Unless they believe that Adam would/could be a necessary piece of the team event, and Ross would not.
My point about momentum and body of work... In Russia, Aliev had been a credible, but not spectacular, skater over the course of the season. But he "bloomed" late, and the Russian Fed went with the hot hand. If Russia had gone with a "body of work" selection criteria, Aliev might not have been chosen. Does Russia have a published selection criteria?
I join you in wishing Jason (and Grant and Max) the best at 4CC.
My point about momentum and body of work... In Russia, Aliev had been a credible, but not spectacular, skater over the course of the season. But he "bloomed" late, and the Russian Fed went with the hot hand. If Russia had gone with a "body of work" selection criteria, Aliev might not have been chosen. Does Russia have a published selection criteria?
I join you in wishing Jason (and Grant and Max) the best at 4CC.
Russia is a slightly different case since they have the luxury of using Euros as a means for selection. Russia also has no qualms of disregarding their national championship entirely in the past. As seen by sending the 5th place finisher (Maxim Kovtun) to Worlds back in 2013. Or Plushy to olympics despite Maxim Kovtun being the national champ that year.
(All that said, other than Euros, I'm not sure what else factored in selection criteria).
I'm not saying I agree with the commttee's approach entirely, but honestly the US is one of the last to start factoring body of work or skate offs as a means for team selection.
But I get what you're saying, now with the non-medal thing. Again at one time, Ross would be going. He was on the favorable side of team selection before. It's a shame for the biggest competition of all that wasn't the case.
And yes I wish Jason, Max and Grant the best at 4CC this week!
(All that said, other than Euros, I'm not sure what else factored in selection criteria).
I'm not saying I agree with the commttee's approach entirely, but honestly the US is one of the last to start factoring body of work or skate offs as a means for team selection.
But I get what you're saying, now with the non-medal thing. Again at one time, Ross would be going. He was on the favorable side of team selection before. It's a shame for the biggest competition of all that wasn't the case.
And yes I wish Jason, Max and Grant the best at 4CC this week!
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