Nathan Chen
- Thread starter matmuh
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I'm not sure a psychologist would be of any help in terms of competition... that would be needed if he had some everyday emotional struggles with being an elite athlete or due to the general pressure/expectations, something like that...
I think he could rather use some kind of coaching to teach him strategies (relaxation techniques etc.) to deal with and block out the acute stress and nerves during competition. That could also improve his ability to focus on doing all his quads, even when it's a competition with less pressure.
Because in general, he strikes me as someone with the mindset of a true competitor, when he's out there, he's strong-willed and always fighting for his landings, keeping it together, even when several elements fail...
I guess that's what shocked me the most about his SP at the olympics, he seemed to have given up and didn't display the kind of strength and tension in his body language, that he would need to land his jumps.
Nathan is mentally strong. He usually don't need to block himself from listerning to others' score, He usually chose to face it head on.
I think what messed him up in this event is:
1, he knew his lutz jump is not particular solid at the moment (he just pick it up about 2 days before individual event, maybe injury or other reasons), here is self-doubt in technique, after failed lutz, he changed his 4F to easier 4T on the fly, again self-doubt in technique.
2, do not have the correct mind set. he may imagined that he has to win Gold, but after saw Yuzuru's score, he knew even with his PB SP score he cannot reach that. this is the wrong mind-set, the correct mind-set should be do a sold SP keep the distance small, then catch up in the long, this should be the realistic approach, his team should have observed his rival's practice and should know that at Yuzuru's current condition(only can repeat T and S), his FS BV will be significantly lower then Nathan's, so it is realistic for Nathan's to catch up in the FS. That is perhaps a mind-set/strategy mistake. Nathan should go into the SP with the mind-set to just do a solid SP, if any mistakes fight for it like he did in other competitions.
Nathan's historical 6 quad free achievement, one aspect is that, he is indeed having nothing to loose, also a little help from the skating God. cos my poor Nathan BOI deserves it.
For team event, I think Nathan perhaps did not have a good sleep, his OG debut, her looked sluggish and sleepy.
Nathan also looked very tired before his individual SP, maybe another sleepless night.
BTW, Yuzuru did exactly I have imagined he will do in this competition (based on my observation of his practice), a clean SP and 1,2 mistakes in the long due to stamina issue.
EDIT: although Yuzuru is the defending champ, but he actually goes into this game as an underdog, he knew that if he did not skate perfectly that is fine too , everybody including himself will understand cos he just came back from injury, However that itself is the biggest stress reliever.
Yet Nathan is on the exactly opposite end. Media and USFS hyped him to be the Gold medal favorite.
I think what messed him up in this event is:
1, he knew his lutz jump is not particular solid at the moment (he just pick it up about 2 days before individual event, maybe injury or other reasons), here is self-doubt in technique, after failed lutz, he changed his 4F to easier 4T on the fly, again self-doubt in technique.
2, do not have the correct mind set. he may imagined that he has to win Gold, but after saw Yuzuru's score, he knew even with his PB SP score he cannot reach that. this is the wrong mind-set, the correct mind-set should be do a sold SP keep the distance small, then catch up in the long, this should be the realistic approach, his team should have observed his rival's practice and should know that at Yuzuru's current condition(only can repeat T and S), his FS BV will be significantly lower then Nathan's, so it is realistic for Nathan's to catch up in the FS. That is perhaps a mind-set/strategy mistake. Nathan should go into the SP with the mind-set to just do a solid SP, if any mistakes fight for it like he did in other competitions.
Nathan's historical 6 quad free achievement, one aspect is that, he is indeed having nothing to loose, also a little help from the skating God. cos my poor Nathan BOI deserves it.
For team event, I think Nathan perhaps did not have a good sleep, his OG debut, her looked sluggish and sleepy.
Nathan also looked very tired before his individual SP, maybe another sleepless night.
BTW, Yuzuru did exactly I have imagined he will do in this competition (based on my observation of his practice), a clean SP and 1,2 mistakes in the long due to stamina issue.
EDIT: although Yuzuru is the defending champ, but he actually goes into this game as an underdog, he knew that if he did not skate perfectly that is fine too , everybody including himself will understand cos he just came back from injury, However that itself is the biggest stress reliever.
Yet Nathan is on the exactly opposite end. Media and USFS hyped him to be the Gold medal favorite.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2014
Ooops posted this in the wrong spot!
On the subject of Dick Button's Tweets, he was very positive to Nathan.
On the subject of Dick Button's Tweets, he was very positive to Nathan.
Now that I’ve had almost a day to digest what happened yesterday - I am still somewhat in shock and awe of what Nathan was able to do in the FS! Such a gutsy and a truly memorable performance. I know I will be watching it over and over again.
I am looking forward to keep following this amazing guy who is the first skater who has really been able to get me interested in this sport. I had only watched figure skating at the Olympics prior to his performance at the 2017 Nationals.
I am looking forward to keep following this amazing guy who is the first skater who has really been able to get me interested in this sport. I had only watched figure skating at the Olympics prior to his performance at the 2017 Nationals.
Interview with Scott Hamilton
Pt1 https://twitter.com/mighimighi/status/965023278506135555
Pt2 https://twitter.com/mighimighi/status/965024408049012736
Article/Video: 'I Had Nothing to Lose': Nathan Chen Reflects on His Near-Comeback
Article: Nathan Chen didn’t live up to the hype at the Olympics. Or did he?
Pt1 https://twitter.com/mighimighi/status/965023278506135555
Pt2 https://twitter.com/mighimighi/status/965024408049012736
Article/Video: 'I Had Nothing to Lose': Nathan Chen Reflects on His Near-Comeback
Article: Nathan Chen didn’t live up to the hype at the Olympics. Or did he?
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2017
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
Thanks for these. Glad to see him interviewed by Scott letting him know that both Scott himself, and Brian Boitano were each 5th at their 1st Olympics. 5th place at your 1st Olympics is nothing to sneeze at! So proud of Nathan!
Edited to add: I just read this NY Times article about he came to choose Mao's Last Dancer for his Free Program (oh and he hates sequins
) : https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/sports/olympics/nathan-chen-figure-skating.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer&contentCollection=Relatedabout communication with Raf, from the interview, it looks like Nathan just made him mind and did his own thing, without much interaction with Raf at all between SP and FS.
Another thing I noticed is that 6 quads practice right after he came back to the practice rink from the US training rink. that practice actually made me relaxed a bit, because it was really good, and before, Nathan is training by himself while Raf is with Adam for the TE.
it feels like (at least to me), Nathan will do better mostly on his own...
Also the communication between Nathan and Raf as some reporter pointed out is "one way directed" I don't know what this means, but from the interview, it looks like Raf ask Nathan to do something, Nathan don't know why and then Raf will tell him you will see??
Another thing I noticed is that 6 quads practice right after he came back to the practice rink from the US training rink. that practice actually made me relaxed a bit, because it was really good, and before, Nathan is training by himself while Raf is with Adam for the TE.
it feels like (at least to me), Nathan will do better mostly on his own...
Also the communication between Nathan and Raf as some reporter pointed out is "one way directed" I don't know what this means, but from the interview, it looks like Raf ask Nathan to do something, Nathan don't know why and then Raf will tell him you will see??
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
His SP (CBC 1080p, but edited down to only his performance and the end of his kiss & cry): https://streamable.com/7srah
His LP (CBC 1080p, but edited down to only his performance and the end of his kiss & cry): https://streamable.com/g0fts
His LP (CBC 1080p, but edited down to only his performance and the end of his kiss & cry): https://streamable.com/g0fts
Japanese TV listing for the Olympic gala. It says the Mens participants have already been decided and that "Gold Medalist Yuzuru Hanyu, silver medalist Shoma Uno, bronze medalist Javier Fernandez (Spain), 4th place Boyang Jin (China), and the first person in Olympic history to successfully land five quadruple jumps in a free skate, Nathan Chen (USA), will appear." Take it for what it's worth.
https://twitter.com/machidaandmeeco/status/965116820792332288
Interview on The Podium Podcast
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-podium/id1325211850?mt=2
Video: The Men of USA Figure Skating Explain How They Pick Their Music
https://twitter.com/machidaandmeeco/status/965116820792332288
Interview on The Podium Podcast
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-podium/id1325211850?mt=2
Video: The Men of USA Figure Skating Explain How They Pick Their Music
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
My friend worked near the Kiss&Cry as a volunteer at the time of both SP and FS. She told me what Rafael said to Nathan in K&C when he finished his SP.
Rafael scolded Nathan, there was something wrong with his jump entries. Nathan entered his Lutz either too early or too late, my friend couldn't hear properly 'cause they spoke quietly He also said that Nathan got out of his air positions too early. And he told him smthng like "Why are you in such a hurry, why do you rush in?!"
That's it. Seems like all that SP disaster was due to both psychological and physical reasons (he rushed into those jumps and he didn't know why, he just did it).
Rafael scolded Nathan, there was something wrong with his jump entries. Nathan entered his Lutz either too early or too late, my friend couldn't hear properly 'cause they spoke quietly
He also said that Nathan got out of his air positions too early. And he told him smthng like "Why are you in such a hurry, why do you rush in?!"That's it. Seems like all that SP disaster was due to both psychological and physical reasons (he rushed into those jumps and he didn't know why, he just did it).
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
OMG, I'm so proud, nearly crying :')
My friend worked near the Kiss&Cry as a volunteer at the time of both SP and FS. She told me what Rafael said to Nathan in K&C when he finished his SP.
Rafael scolded Nathan, there was something wrong with his jump entries. Nathan entered his Lutz either too early or too late, my friend couldn't hear properly 'cause they spoke quietly
That's it. Seems like all that SP disaster was due to both psychological and physical reasons (he rushed into those jump and he didn't know why, he just did it).
Yet Nathan's answer to his mistake (from interview) is, he is tentative thus going in too slow, thus lack the speed...
sound like opposite to what Raf said.
.........
I don't know, but the interaction between Nathan and Raf seems troublesome to me.
As my psychologist friend suspected, Nathan is too independent and wants to do things in his own terms. That is dangerous for a teenager. Look, he made the decision of going for 6 quads himself with encouragement from his mom without input from his coach. I cannot imagine any coach would feel good about this. For one thing, I cannot imagine Yuzuru deciding to go for 4Z 4L without first consulting Brian Orser.
I fear that it might be Nathan constantly tweaking the jump layout himself throughout the season, and the adult Raf could not stop the ambitious kid from doing that.
Yes, it is a great accomplishment to do a 6 quad LP at the Olympics. But I suspect it was driven by anger. Without an adult in charge, I am afraid more disaters may be ahead....
I cannot imagine any big name coach would put up with this.
Yes, Nathan is extremely talented. But he is still a teenager and definitely needs guidance from professionals.
This is my biggest fear, and the information revealed so far seems to indicate exactly that.
Can you imagine Yuzuru deciding to go for quad loop with encouragement from his parents and Orser was merely informed after the decision was made? I can't.
Another clue I have is in Nov 2016, Raf said that Nathan finally listened to his guidance more and it reflected on his GP results. At the time, I wonder if Nathan did not pay enough attention to Raf's teaching.
Nathan is not yet a well established skater, and already showed the umwillingness to listen to his coach. My psychologist friend said, he sensed strong personality there, and arrogance...
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but there are more warning signs revealed after the stunning LP.
As my psychologist friend suspected, Nathan is too independent and wants to do things in his own terms. That is dangerous for a teenager. Look, he made the decision of going for 6 quads himself with encouragement from his mom without input from his coach. I cannot imagine any coach would feel good about this. For one thing, I cannot imagine Yuzuru deciding to go for 4Z 4L without first consulting Brian Orser.
I fear that it might be Nathan constantly tweaking the jump layout himself throughout the season, and the adult Raf could not stop the ambitious kid from doing that.
Yes, it is a great accomplishment to do a 6 quad LP at the Olympics. But I suspect it was driven by anger. Without an adult in charge, I am afraid more disaters may be ahead....
I cannot imagine any big name coach would put up with this.
Yes, Nathan is extremely talented. But he is still a teenager and definitely needs guidance from professionals.
This is my biggest fear, and the information revealed so far seems to indicate exactly that.
Can you imagine Yuzuru deciding to go for quad loop with encouragement from his parents and Orser was merely informed after the decision was made? I can't.
Another clue I have is in Nov 2016, Raf said that Nathan finally listened to his guidance more and it reflected on his GP results. At the time, I wonder if Nathan did not pay enough attention to Raf's teaching.
Nathan is not yet a well established skater, and already showed the umwillingness to listen to his coach. My psychologist friend said, he sensed strong personality there, and arrogance...
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but there are more warning signs revealed after the stunning LP.
^^
first, there is no evidence that Nathan indeed does not listen to Coach, mostly speculation. also no evidence that Nathan only listen to parents.
Nathan may have a strong personality and gradually started to have his own ideas/opinions as he grow older. but I don't think there is any indication that he is arrogant.
I listed some of the communication between Nathan and Raf, does seem weird, but I do not give any opinions or conclusions about that.
first, there is no evidence that Nathan indeed does not listen to Coach, mostly speculation. also no evidence that Nathan only listen to parents.
Nathan may have a strong personality and gradually started to have his own ideas/opinions as he grow older. but I don't think there is any indication that he is arrogant.
I listed some of the communication between Nathan and Raf, does seem weird, but I do not give any opinions or conclusions about that.
I personally think that Nathan could do a little of Coach/choreographer shopping during off-season, not to suggest changing coaches, just to get some extra eyes and perspectives.
Next 4 year, if ISU really emphasize on the component side of figure skating, Nathan my need some new perspectives, expertise to improve in those areas.
As for as I know, Raf is a technical coach and Raf's training base is relatively small, perhaps no on-site SS,Spin,choreo specialists compare to Yuzuru in Orser's camp or Vincent in US Olympic training center.
Next 4 year, if ISU really emphasize on the component side of figure skating, Nathan my need some new perspectives, expertise to improve in those areas.
As for as I know, Raf is a technical coach and Raf's training base is relatively small, perhaps no on-site SS,Spin,choreo specialists compare to Yuzuru in Orser's camp or Vincent in US Olympic training center.
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