2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Spirals for Miles]

It was the first Olympics that used CoP and they even revamped all the spin/footwork/spiral rules from the previous season. The skaters had a LOT to do in a short amount of time to adjust. Sasha's programs were some of the best ever and no Ladies since her have shown some of the qualities she did, that medal was very deserved. I would much prefer to watch the skating she did there than what we see from Medvedeva.

gosh if only you hadn't included the last line

 

[ManyCairns]

^^^ You and everyone else.

Hmm, I respect you guys' knowledge so much I need to go back and re-watch Sasha. I always think of super flexibility and skating on the flat of her blade, skate leg wobbling during bendy spirals. And that sort of move taking over from good solid basics and jumps a la skaters like Jenny Kirk (at her best). But clearly I've been selling Sasha short and need to re-evaluate! And probably exaggerating any weaknesses she may have had, in my memory. I do remember wondering if her jump issues were not inconsistency with jumps but her trying to put in her program moves that weren't really solid in practice, either -- but, Blades, you make a terrific point about all that skaters were trying to adjust to, and cram into, their programs in the early days of COP. But the narrative at the time was sort of "inconsistent Sasha." Would that we had that kind of "inconsistency" now!!

 

[mrrice]

Meh... it was expected. The competition is very deep and after nationals and the team event I expect their coaches, the media, and the Fed were putting more pressure on them. They can pull up to respectable finishes in the LP. What matter more is that they get these wonky skates out now and focus for worlds. We have three slots on the line and they need to be at their best there.

What’s impressive, is how much the judges really love Karen. Even after that skate she still got great PCS scores. Of course, that program of hers is sublime. But it goes to show how much judges appreciate the quality of her skating.

I have to disagree with you on Bradie.....I saw her at 3 events and other than some two footed, or shaky landings, I have never seen her fall that hard. Placement wise, I think the ladies are exactly where I thought they'd be. It was only Bradie who I thought would finish 8th as our top competitor. Things have really changed between the US and Canada. Back when I was traveling to shows, Jennifer Robinson was one of my favorite skaters and we were thrilled when she's finish in the top 10. Now Kaetlyn is vying to be a medalist and possible champion.

The USFSA needs to take a long look in the mirror after this event. We're a large and wealthy country and there's absolutely no reason that we can't produce a skater who can stay on their feet during a 2:30 SP. It's so disappointing and I bet the ratings are terrible here in the US as many of our athletes in other sports have not done well either.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I have a feeling Mirai is going to skate best among the 3 ladies. Bradie is not going to get good PCS even if she skates clean. Karen has not been doing well all seasons long, and her SP didn't show signs of improvement.

Bradie will get better PCS in the long. She had the worst possible start position for getting high PCS, and combined that with a rare (for her) fall.

 

[kwanatic]

It was unfortunate none of the US women were all that great last night but I'm expecting better performances in the FS.

Mirai: I was shocked to see her so heartbroken after the SP. That 3A is a lot of pressure and it seems like she's basing her success on whether or not she can hit that jump. I need someone from her team to step in immediately and adjust her mindset. I understand her disappointment at not landing it again but she has got to know what a unicorn she is for even attempting that jump at this event. I was so proud of her for (a) going for it and (b) hitting the rest of her jumps after missing it. For her to refocus immediately and land that clean 3F-3T and fight for that landing of the 3L...SO proud of her. She's already made history and she was integral in winning that team bronze...this Olympics is already a success for her and everything else is just extra. I just want her to go out and skate for herself.

Karen: Not a surprising skate from her. Pretty much exactly what I expected TBH. The quality of her skating is so high that she's capable of still getting a strong score even with the mistakes. Even with the errors, that On Golden Pond program is beautiful and I think that's what helped her along here. Not expecting much in the FS (I've learned not to) but I'd like to see her have at least a decent skate for herself.

Bradie: I was shocked but also not shocked at the fall. I mean Johnny & Tara go on and on and on about how she "never falls" and she's "always so solid." That kind of pressure can get into your head and it obviously did. Despite NBC lauding her, Bradie is still mostly unknown internationally so she needed that clean skate. She finished out of the top 10 so I'm thinking a surprise 5th or 6th place finish is likely out of the question here. However, I do expect her to have a much better FS and move up.

I'm hoping 2 out of 3 of them will place top 10.

 

[frida80]

I have to disagree with you on Bradie.....I saw her at 3 events and other than some two footed, or shaky landings, I have never seen her fall that hard. Placement wise, I think the ladies are exactly where I thought they'd be. It was only Bradie who I thought would finish 8th as our top competitor. Things have really changed between the US and Canada. Back when I was traveling to shows, Jennifer Robinson was one of my favorite skaters and we were thrilled when she's finish in the top 10. Now Kaetlyn is vying to be a medalist and possible champion.

The USFSA needs to take a long look in the mirror after this event. We're a large and wealthy country and there's absolutely no reason that we can't produce a skater who stay on their feet during a 2:30 SP. It's so disappointing and I bet the ratings are terrible here in the US as many of our athletes in other sports have not done well either.

Bradie is consistent for sure, but expecting her not to succumb to pressure at some point was not realistic. I guessed that Mirai would have winners head to a certain extent, but Bradie has it too apparently. The high of getting those medals must have distracted them.

If Bradie had another season in senior, shed have a chance to really deal high level pressure. I get the feeling after the TE, they put some real pressure on both Mirai and Bradie to get that bronze. Very unfair to the both of them. If they came in relaxed and ready to enjoy themselves, they probably would’ve skated cleaner.

I’ve spoken a lot about the flows in the US system and how it needs to be fixed. The truth is the world changed a lot since worlds 2016. Kaetlyn is fierce, the Russians are even more competitive, the Japanese are more competitive and Carolina is back. Bradie has a low WR, no junior medals, and only a few senior medals. Her PCS would not have been competitive. It’s not to say that she won’t be competitive next year after she’s been polished more. This is the first year Mirai has attempted the 3A. bOrser said the first year with a new jump is tough, but the next year is better because your more confident. Karen’s PCS score is promising already. They judges love her performce. Jackie said that her jumps were looking stronger in practice. I think it’s a matter of her finally focusing on those jumps.

I feel like we’re in the middle of seeing the rise of US ladies rather than the continued decline. It just happens that the valley is at the Olympics.

The good news is that skaters that make mistakes at the Olympics tend to switch that around at worlds. It’s that unfinished business that drives them to finish the season strong. That what I hope happens at worlds.

 

[kwanatic]

Bradie will get better PCS in the long. She had the worst possible start position for getting high PCS, and combined that with a rare (for her) fall.

Also the fact this is her first major competition and her PCS are going to stay at the basic level until she gives them a reason to raise them. At nationals Bradie's SP was pretty amazing due to the state the US women are in right now. The program isn't as impressive to watch on an international stage b/c the level of competition is so much higher; Bradie's overall skating is a bit blah by comparison. I think a clean FS will boost her PCS but given she's outside of the top 10 and "unknown," I don't see them jumping by that much.

Having that priceless experience (and hopefully better packaging) will go a long way for Bradie next season. She's got a great base to be a force but it's obvious she's going to need to need some time.

 

[mrrice]

Bradie is consistent for sure, but expecting her not to succumb to pressure at some point was not realistic. I guessed that Mirai would have winners head to a certain extent, but Bradie has it too apparently. The high of getting those medals must have distracted them.

If Bradie had another season in senior, shed have a chance to really deal high level pressure. I get the feeling after the TE, they put some real pressure on both Mirai and Bradie to get that bronze. Very unfair to the both of them. If they came in relaxed and ready to enjoy themselves, they probably would’ve skated cleaner.

I’ve spoken a lot about the flows in the US system and how it needs to be fixed. The truth is the world changed a lot since worlds 2016. Kaetlyn is fierce, the Russians are even more competitive, the Japanese are more competitive and Carolina is back. Bradie has a low WR, no junior medals, and only a few senior medals. Her PCS would not have been competitive. It’s not to say that she won’t be competitive next year after she’s been polished more. This is the first year Mirai has attempted the 3A. bOrser said the first year with a new jump is tough, but the next year is better because your more confident. Karen’s PCS score is promising already. They judges love her performce. Jackie said that her jumps were looking stronger in practice. I think it’s a matter of her finally focusing on those jumps.

I feel like we’re in the middle of seeing the rise of US ladies rather than the continued decline. It just happens that the valley is at the Olympics.

The good news is that skaters that make mistakes at the Olympics tend to switch that around at worlds. It’s that unfinished business that drives them to finish the season strong. That what I hope happens at worlds.

Michele certainly did BOTH times following her Olympic disappointment. I hope the US ladies will leave the games feeling better than they must feel right now. I also hope they're not watching the news....This morning the sports anchor said "It was 3 up and 3 down for the US ladies in figure skating.." They proceeded to show all the ladies falling saying how bad the US has done in these games.

 

[R.D.]

Hmm, I respect you guys' knowledge so much I need to go back and re-watch Sasha. I always think of super flexibility and skating on the flat of her blade, skate leg wobbling during bendy spirals. And that sort of move taking over from good solid basics and jumps a la skaters like Jenny Kirk (at her best). But clearly I've been selling Sasha short and need to re-evaluate! And probably exaggerating any weaknesses she may have had, in my memory. I do remember wondering if her jump issues were not inconsistency with jumps but her trying to put in her program moves that weren't really solid in practice, either -- but, Blades, you make a terrific point about all that skaters were trying to adjust to, and cram into, their programs in the early days of COP. But the narrative at the time was sort of "inconsistent Sasha." Would that we had that kind of "inconsistency" now!!

For all the decrying about “inconsistency”, Cohen was actually quite consistent - in the short program. Errors from her in that segment were quite rare. That’s a big reason why she has the medals she does. The SP was her bread-and-butter.

 

[chuckm]

Mirai didn't melt down after that fall. Surpriseeeee

No, but she didn't have much zing in her performance, either. Her PCS scores were mostly 7s when many of the other ladies in that group were getting 8s, including Kaori Sakamoto, Karen Chen and Gabby Daleman (the last two had mistakes, too).

Bradie skated first and got all 7s, and no one topped her PCS scores until Sakamoto skated---if she hadn't skated so early, her scores might have been higher. I'm not convinced that her PCS scores will be that low now that she's skating in the penultimate group for the FS.

One more thing: I never expected any of our ladies to contend for a medal. The competition from the Russian, Japanese and Canadian ladies plus Kostner pretty much shut them out. What I hoped for was that at least two would finish in the top 10, and that looks feasible right now.

 

[klutzy]

I didn't expect our ladies to contend for a medal--not unless something extreme happened. I was hoping one would get a spot in the final flight--but when I saw Bradie skating first, I thought that was unlikely. I knew Mirai would be nervous and that would affect her 3A. None of them were a disaster. They just weren't good and the competition is too stiff at the top for them to do well without stronger-than-usual skates.

 

[temadd]

I really don't think it was pressure. She finished the rest of the program without a wilt. She practiced the 3A in the warmup and earlier in the week and she wasn't landing it.

Succumbing to pressure is when you land something all the time and then your nerves get you when it counts and you fail. She wasn't succeeding in the jump but once in a blue moon. It's a testimony to how much she fought for it that she darn near went 2/2.

She was landing the 3A in practice all week. It wasn't until the day before the short that she started tightening up.

 

[chuckm]

The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

That made no sense to me, because Mirai is the one who has had 11 years of senior experience at the highest levels to Bradie's FIRST experience with same. No comparison there. And no mention of the fact that Bradie finished the highest of the three US ladies with a respectable 128 in the FS and a total score 6 points higher than Mirai's.

And as I had hoped, two of the three US ladies did finish in the top 10: Bradie was 9th and Mirai was 10th.

Let's hope they will do better at Worlds, although at this point, I don't see there is any way they can save 3 spots for Worlds 2019.

 

[kimi492]

All I know is the ladies are going to have bring it at worlds - maybe we should sub Ashley back in lol (and I’m not a fan of hers at all)

 

[brightphoton]

The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

That made no sense to me

My family -- who are casual, once-every-4-year fans -- noticed the double standard in commentary too, so you know it was pretty bad.

But they chalked it up to resignation. Remember, before the event started, the commentators had high expectations of the American ladies. They spent all their disappointment energy on watching Bradie and Karen falling and stepping out. By the time Mirai started skating, they were satisfied just to see US ladies participating in the Olympics.

 

[skatefan17]

The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

That made no sense to me, because Mirai is the one who has had 11 years of senior experience at the highest levels to Bradie's FIRST experience with same. No comparison there. And no mention of the fact that Bradie finished the highest of the three US ladies with a respectable 128 in the FS and a total score 6 points higher than Mirai's.

And as I had hoped, two of the three US ladies did finish in the top 10: Bradie was 9th and Mirai was 10th.

Let's hope they will do better at Worlds, although at this point, I don't see there is any way they can save 3 spots for Worlds 2019.

They are so against Bradie and biased. It was disgusting to see. The whole media situation in the US is sick, so I don't really enjoy their "expertise" anymore.

 

[skylark]

The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

That made no sense to me, because Mirai is the one who has had 11 years of senior experience at the highest levels to Bradie's FIRST experience with same. No comparison there. And no mention of the fact that Bradie finished the highest of the three US ladies with a respectable 128 in the FS and a total score 6 points higher than Mirai's.

Yeah, it makes no sense and it's very unfair.

 

[frida80]

Because they put all their expectations of Bradie. She came into the Olympics as the consistent one that never missed, they expected two clean spotless programs from her. With Mirai and Karen, the expectations were lower since they've been historically inconsistent.

I think it's unfair to Bradie because she never started this flawless narrative. That was Tara and USFS trying to hype another skater before they're ready. It's completely their fault for laying so much pressure on her when she's barely had one full season as a senior yet.

I'm tired of USFS annointing another lady and then throwing her under the bus when she doesn't live up to their own inflated expectations.

Back off people! Give her some room to become a champions instead of demanding her to be one right now.

They will never learn.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I expected all the ladies who finished ahead to finish ahead (only surprise was Dabin Chio instead of Gabriel Daleman) so I guess its no surprise. Yeah a potential meltdown by Carolina, or another, which was not unrealistic at all, could have inched the US ladies a step higher but still 9th as the highest finisher is no surprise

But I think Bradie having to skate the SP, first, in the first group, just shows how wrong the USFSA does things. Always clinging to the old and tried guard as long as possible, wringing them until their desert dry, while the younger generation suffers from lack of attention and nurturing until they eventually become nothing. Younger girls need more encouragement and pushing to improve. They need to know exactly where they stand and how they can improve. Sending Star Andrews to 4CC was a move in the right direction.

 

[withwings]

The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

That made no sense to me, because Mirai is the one who has had 11 years of senior experience at the highest levels to Bradie's FIRST experience with same. No comparison there. And no mention of the fact that Bradie finished the highest of the three US ladies with a respectable 128 in the FS and a total score 6 points higher than Mirai's.

And as I had hoped, two of the three US ladies did finish in the top 10: Bradie was 9th and Mirai was 10th.

Let's hope they will do better at Worlds, although at this point, I don't see there is any way they can save 3 spots for Worlds 2019.

Mirai ALWAYS has been treated in that way. ALWAYS. And always will be.