Nathan Chen

[yyyskate]

This may upset some fans here.
from all my observations, information I can gather and my gut feeling. I am kinda more learning towards Nathan. Also learn towards a coach change.

As for which one, just think about what Nathan lacks in figure skating right now and go for the coach that is best at that. So that he will continue to improve in all aspects of figure skating and realize his potential (once in a generation) in figure skating (this is most important, as a fan I personally don't really care about medals or results)


Plus: Nathan is really a humble guy. he is so kind too.

 

[cchen24]

No matter how Nathan pitched it, we have seen several different versions of Mao's last dancer.

Choreographically, without a doubt I like the debut version the best, by a huge margin.
I could see he really pay a lot of attention to details of the choreography.
Then, it gradually went downhill from there.

To me, it just shows to me that he is really not all that committed to the choreography, i.e. he is more than willing to sacrifice the choreography to fit in quads if necessary.

Figure skating is an interesting sport. It is both athletic and artistic.
Skaters need to be able to blend both into their programs to win.

I would rather let his action speak for itself.
I bet we will continue to see the constant tweaking of the jump content.
Whoever may be behind this, this is going to be a huge obstacle for him to become consistent in competitions.
In doing so, I have no doubt he will once in a while hit an excellent program.
But there will be more misses along the way.
But in skating, judges prefer to reward skaters with consistency.
If Nathan sticks to the same layout and delivers his programs consistently, he should have already closed the gap in PCS between him and Shoma.

If Nathan keeps on this inconsistent path, I fear that very soon Boyang will surpass him in PCS as well.

I wish Nathan understood that art took a lot of time to polish...
A lot of time = a lot of runthroughs with exactly same layout, day after day, month after month

 

[Ophelia]

This may upset some fans here.
from all my observations, information I can gather and my gut feeling. I am kinda more learning towards Nathan. Also learn towards a coach change.

As for which one, just think about what Nathan lacks in figure skating right now and go for the coach that is best at that. So that he will continue to improve in all aspects of figure skating and realize his potential (once in a generation) in figure skating (this is most important, as a fan I personally don't really care about medals or results)

Plus: Nathan is really a humble guy. he is so kind too.

Coaching change won't solve anything if Nathan doesn't stop letting other ppl (eg parents) who have no business driving drive him.

He hasn't learned how to be a smart competitor. Being a good competitor goes beyond landing quads. It's all about strategy and understanding what advice to take and discard. He was not well prepped for this Olympics.

Has Raf coached any TOP skaters? And by top I mean OGMs and World Champions, not Ashley Wagners.

 

[yyyskate]

Raf said this: "So, we can handle anything we want according to what is going on, what our competitors do."
if you follow my posts, you would know I personally is against this, this screams greedy to me.
that is in my opinion not the correct way to become a great figure skater in the long term. And it is also not the way to win or to dominate.

 

[yyyskate]

Coaching change won't solve anything if Nathan doesn't stop letting other ppl (eg parents) who have no business driving drive him.

He hasn't learned how to be a smart competitor. Being a good competitor goes beyond landing quads. It's all about strategy and understanding what advice to take and discard. He was not well prepped for this Olympics.

How do you know it is all Nathan's fault, I tried as much as possible to post all information (that I can gather) as it is on this fan thread.

Nathan is a humble guy is just MY impression of him, from all the info I can gather.

People could have different opinion, but my main focus is to provide as much info unfiltered to Nathan's fans here.

I also think we may disagree with one another, but that does not mean black or white, there are good points in everyone's input.

 

[Ophelia]

How do you know it is all Nathan's fault, I tried as much as possible to post all information (that I can gather) as it is on this fan thread.

It certainly wasn't Raf's decision to change layouts at 6 am day of, now was it?

 

[yyyskate]

@cchen24
I agree with your last post, I think all valuable suggestions Team Nathan can take from, but I won't blame Nathan and think it is all his fault. As for as I know, this BOI never had it easy, he put so much pressure on himself.

 

[cchen24]

Coaching change won't solve anything if Nathan doesn't stop letting other ppl (eg parents) who have no business driving drive him.

He hasn't learned how to be a smart competitor. Being a good competitor goes beyond landing quads. It's all about strategy and understanding what advice to take and discard. He was not well prepped for this Olympics.

Has Raf coached any TOP skaters? And by top I mean OGMs and World Champions, not Ashley Wagners.

Michelle Kwan, Mao Asada. (But under Raf, Michelle never won any Worlds.)

Mao Asada vs Yuna Kim is interesting.

Mao went to Raf, Yuna went with Brian Orser after 2006.

Mao had better results initially, mostly with her more difficult jumps (3A). Yuna surpassed Mao in 2009 in a big way, mainly due to her way better execution of jumps & basic skating skills.

It seems to me that Brian is the one always willing to invest on things which don't reflect on the results right away, i.e. basic skating skills. But in the long run, Brian's pupils really shine in their quality of skating.
What he has done to Javier Fernandez is beyond amazing to me.

 

[lappo]

I honestly think Nathan is mismanaged in more than one ways. He is probably pulled between his family and his coach; as far as Rafael is concerned, one thing that I don't particularly appreciate is the constant use of "we" anytime Nathan wins something (e.g. at Rostelecom, if I remember correctly, and maybe also at GPF). I understand the happiness of the moment and everything but I appreciate more when the coaches put the emphasize on the sole athlete (see Orser), no matter how the result is a collective team effort. I know this is probably just a sensation, but it makes me feel as if he is interested only in the result and not in the actual growth and sustainability of Nathan's career, which is quite troubling sensation for me.
@ lilahozi: Rafael has coached Buttle and Mao to their 2008 world medal, even though the history with Mao in that year is unfortunate.

 

[yyyskate]

It certainly wasn't Raf's decision to change layouts at 6 am day of, now was it?

If really care about Nathan, I suggest you read everything carefully since a few pages back.

for this question, the short answer is: yes it is Nathan's own decision to change Layout,
but have NO fix layout in daily practices is also a fact and has been allowed by Raf as a coach.

 

[cchen24]

@cchen24
I agree with your last post, I think all valuable suggestions Team Nathan can take from, but I won't blame Nathan and think it is all his fault. As for as I know, this BOI never had it easy, he put so much pressure on himself.

I feel sorry for him. Such talented guy, probably once in a lifetime kind of talent.

He needed, when he was even younger, a coach like Frank Carrol to the young Michelle Kwan who taught her the discipline of practice, and the beauty of the sport. Without a doubt, Frank is the one who laid the foundation that Michelle Kwan needed to have a successful career. Nathan, on the other hand, does not have a good foundation. And time could be running out soon. Frank did this to Michelle when she was 13. Nathan is already 18, and about to attend college.

 

[besti loop]

You should post this in the main discussion board. I suspect many people would like to share their thoughts.

Oh, where is the main discussion board?

 

[shine]

I feel sorry for him. Such talented guy, probably once in a lifetime kind of talent.

He needed, when he was even younger, a coach like Frank Carrol to the young Michelle Kwan who taught her the discipline of practice, and the beauty of the sport. Without a doubt, Frank is the one who laid the foundation that Michelle Kwan needed to have a successful career. Nathan, on the other hand, does not have a good foundation. And time could be running out soon. Frank did this to Michelle when she was 13. Nathan is already 18, and about to attend college.

Huh? Where does that even come from? If he didn't have a solid foundation he wouldn't have been beating kids 5 years older than him at JGP when he was 13 and making his jr debut, based on the merit of his components.

 

[chopinskate]

Oh, where is the main discussion board?

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?6-Figure-Skating-The-Edge

 

[yyyskate]

@cchen24 Nathan was very well trained and balanced figure skater, until they decided to became the Quad King. I actually have no problem in pursuit of Quad. I just think they could have better philosophy/vision.

 

[cchen24]

Huh? Where does that even come from? If he didn't have a solid foundation he wouldn't have been beating kids 5 years older than him at JGP when he was 13 and making his jr debut, based on the merit of his components.

The foundation I talked about including how you set a program and stick to the game plan all season long.
When Michelle Kwan, or other great champions, compete, their jump layouts are usually very boring, i.e. very predictable.
They simply don't change their programs all the time.

Nathan's jump layout, on the other hand, is always a mystery because it is unpredictable.

This does not seem like good foundation to a young skater to me.

If Nathan trains with Sandra Bezic, she would not approve such constant change in jump content.
How about Frank Carrol? Brian Orser?
I am pretty sure they all cringe when they see this young talented skater constantly changes his program.

Let me give you an analogy.
During my last trip to Taiwan, I met with a young talented college student who just won a major clarinet competition of the country. I watched him play up close, and immediately noticed quite a few problems in his basics. I told a friend about it, and my friend happens to know the student very well since he loans the student a clarinet. My friend said that he wanted to bring these issues to his attention.
I said, "don't, don't ever get in between him and his teacher. if his teacher doesn't say anything, let him figure out, in a painful way, when he goes abroad for his graduate study."

This talented kid just won a major competition, but does not have a good foundation. It was crystal clear to me.

 

[reneerose]

How long has Raf been Nathan's coach? I don't follow juniors, so I don't know.

 

[yyyskate]

"To me, it just shows to me that he is really not all that committed to the choreography, i.e. he is more than willing to sacrifice the choreography to fit in quads if necessary."

The real reason behind this, is perhaps that They team Nathan really wanted that GOLD OG medal, Nathan's true ability however cannot maintain a 5 quad FS with the level of performance at US classic. They are afraid that take out one or two quad go for better components Nathan's PCS/GOE won't grow fast enough, thus he will have 0 chance to win GOLD. But as long as put in 5 quads, they can go along with this narrative, I did more quad than you (like certain Russian lady's OGM) to win the OGM.

I think it is a decision/strategy I personally do not like, I don't think Nathan himself only likes quads and do not commit to choreo .

 

[cchen24]

How long has Raf been Nathan's coach? I don't follow juniors, so I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Chen

Raf become his main coach in Dec 2011. It's been forever....

 

[shine]

The foundation I talked about including how you set a program and stick to the game plan all season long.
When Michelle Kwan, or other great champions, compete, their jump layouts are usually very boring, i.e. very predictable.
They simply don't change their programs all the time.

Nathan's jump layout, on the other hand, is always a mystery because it is unpredictable.

This does not seem like good foundation to a young skater to me.

If Nathan trains with Sandra Bezic, she would not approve such constant change in jump content.
How about Frank Carrol? Brian Orser?
I am pretty sure they all cringe when they see this young talented skater constantly changes his program.

Let me give you an analogy.
During my last trip to Taiwan, I met with a young talented college student who just won a major clarinet competition of the country. I watched him play up close, and immediately noticed quite a few problems in his basics. I told a friend about it, and my friend happens to know the student very well since he loans the student a clarinet. My friend said that he wanted to bring these issues to his attention.
I said, "don't, don't ever get in between him and his teacher. if his teacher doesn't say anything, let him figure out, in a painful way, when he goes abroad for his graduate study."

This talented kid just won a major competition, but does not have a good foundation. Sorry. It was crystal clear to me.

To me you are talking about strategy/approach rather than foundation. Strategy can simply be changed if they make up their mind to do so. Foundation is something totally different. I'm not sure why you think it's too late for him to change his strategy, that is, to stop doing a different layout each time.