2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[ice coverage]

For better or worse, Mirai has gotten tons of criticism on GS over the years, both for her skating and for her words.
And she continues to get heaps of criticism.

Mirai also has gotten some praise/support, and my guesstimate is that the proportion of praise/support has increased somewhat since 2018 Nats.
(Deservedly so, IMO.)

But Mirai hardly has been immune from criticism.

I literally cannot think of any skater who has been immune from criticism on GS.
Hanyu has not been immune, Michelle Kwan has not been immune, etc., etc.

 

[temadd]

I really missed Ashley's skating. :luv17: I missed her authenticity, her incredible emotional depth and artistry, her allure, her spirit, her womanliness, and her presence in the competition. Her programs and technique were on the way up, at Nationals, and she has a marvelous record of keeping US ladies in the conversation.






Just use your imagination for a moment. Imagine that Ashley had skated here, had scored zero points on her first big FS element, then singled a lutz in the second half. Then imagine that she'd blamed the failure on a rut on the ice.

Think about it. This board would be blowing up with hateful, ugly remarks about her. Mirai, OTOH, gets praise.

Thank you skylark! It looked to me like Mirai gave up the second she popped the axel. I understand that she wanted to finally show some joy in her skating but smiling during Miss Saigon - a tragic love story? The whole program felt very disingenuous and I am puzzled that no one has pointed that out.

 

[chuckm]

At least Mirai had some expression on her face while she was skating, even if it was inappropriate to the theme of the music. Usually she is as blank-faced as a department store dummy.

 

[imisscohen]

At least Mirai had some expression on her face while she was skating, even if it was inappropriate to the theme of the music. Usually she is as blank-faced as a department store dummy.

this is true. I know the smile didn't go well with Miss Saigon, but I didn't hate it either. Not appropriate for the song selection, but it was just nice to see her shake off the mistake and still find a way to be positive and go for the rest of her routine.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

At least Mirai had some expression on her face while she was skating, even if it was inappropriate to the theme of the music. Usually she is as blank-faced as a department store dummy.

Hey..those department store dummies can surprise ya sometimes!!
https://youtu.be/bBQVrCflZ_E

 

[schizoanalyst]

I want to give one piece of the puzzle that I don’t think is talked about enough for American skating - though there are many issues with American skating and part of them have to do with the USF’s organization structure. But it’s also cultural.

My mom is a coach, she’s not an elite famous coach herself or anything, but the rink has coaches that have trained Olympians and does send people to Nationals, and I’ve spent a fair amount of my time around these athletes and up-and-comers just hanging around the rink with my mom. The problem in America is partially cultural. There is a certain sub-culture in this country of over-protective, hyper-involved, helicopter moms and that group unfortunately intersects with a lot of moms who want to put their kids into skating. Combine that with the American penchant for contempt for expertise, and you have a disaster when it comes to coaching an elite athlete. There is a reason that in North America, elite coaches will tell you that the real coach is always the mom.

Let me give an anecdote to explain, complete run-thru are necessary for building up stamina and, more importantly, just making the program feel as comfortable as possible under nerves. There is a talented young skater who almost never does complete run-thru’s. Her mom always intervenes with some excuse and why we just need to keep practicing the jumps and not do run-thrus since she’s such a great spinner anyway and run-thrus waste time she could be training jumps. It’s nuts. Firstly, her spins are actually just good not great but whatever, but more importantly - does anyone think Eteri would let that mom have a say at all? The kid would be booted from the rink if a mom was trying to stop run-thrus consistently. The Nathan Chen/Raf thing is illustrative too. The layout switches were crazy and made him wildly inconsistent and appeared to be due to the influence of his mom. Does anyone think Brian Orser would play along? Yuna’s mom was famously involved, but I think she actually trusted Orser. The mom’s in America just intervene constantly because they think they know best. But in America the coaches are so reliant on the financial support that it’s hard to pass on an overbearing mom. Also, because American Moms so often believe they know best and their child is perfect, if it’s not going good and they are having problems - it’s time for a coach hop. Good luck trying to go through the hard-work of fixing a kids technique because you can tell there are gonna be issues as they age. Sometimes that’s just something you have to do with a young kid. Those are hard months without a lot or any improvements before it pays off. A lot of parents resist that because they don’t see the issue *now* and, again, assume expertise superior to the coach.

I have no idea how anyone could fix this, other than institute a Karolyi-like training center that removes the parents from the conversation - but no one wants to imitate that model after the Nassar scandal, and for perhaps good reason!

 

[s_parks]

Yuna’s mom was famously involved, but I think she actually trusted Orser.

This. The way she was involved is a different case/type than, say, Nguyen's dad or Chen's parents. Actual skating-wise, she left it up to Orser. I think it was just the direction of her career in general(post-olympics) where communication got awry. That's why yuna succeeded with orser and nguyen hasn't.

 

[evasorange]

I was ready to go crazy for Mirai(and so were a lot of of Americans near me in the stands) but from that axel pop there just wasn’t any fight in the program. It definitely gave a vibe of “oh well I’ll just finish”. It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t great ether. It was actually really disappointing the more I think about it. Still, she’ll always have the team event! Karen could be great but I just have serious doubts at this point if she’ll ever pull it 100 percent together. Shades of Jeremy Abbott. Bradie is very fortunate to compete for a big influential nation because otherwise she would never rise out of the first two groups. Slow ice coverage and zero artistry. All in all, I wasn’t expecting much out of Karen or Bradie, but I had hoped Mirai would rise to the occasion after her wonderful team event. Ashley was sorely missed.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I wonder if the USFSA is currently regretting putting Karen on the world team. With these Olympics wrapped up its safe to say she's been dreadful in every international competition this season. Her only solid competition was nationals and even then it required some pushing and teeth gritting from the nationals judges to get her to Pyeongchang. Combined with her "boot issues" she makes herself pretty unreliable at the moment. The pressure on the other two ladies, who ever they may be, to keep the three spots will be even crazier and that's not fair to them.

 

[brightphoton]

I wonder if the USFSA is currently regretting putting Karen on the world team. With these Olympics wrapped up its safe to say she's been dreadful in every international competition this season. Her only solid competition was nationals and even then it required some pushing and teeth gritting from the nationals judges to get her to Pyeongchang. Combined with her "boot issues" she makes herself pretty unreliable at the moment. The pressure on the other two ladies, who ever they may be, to keep the three spots will be even crazier and that's not fair to them.

World's post-Olympics could see some withdrawals of top skaters. That would make it easier to earn 3 spots

 

[frida80]

World's post-Olympics could see some withdrawals of top skaters. That would make it easier to earn 3 spots

I can’t see Zhenia not doing worlds. Alina should be there too, but she’s a little Russian hero of the Olympics. She may skip like Adelina did.

Kaetlyn may skip, she has her bronze now. Gabby will go to redeem her performance

I’m not sure about Satoko, but I’m learning towards yes. Wakaba will be there instead. Of Kaori. She’s looking strong.

Maria must go. She’s needed to ensure their spots.

So I think at best two people will opt out of worlds. Dabin outside of Korea will be beatable. But it will be tight.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I wonder if the USFSA is currently regretting putting Karen on the world team. With these Olympics wrapped up its safe to say she's been dreadful in every international competition this season. Her only solid competition was nationals and even then it required some pushing and teeth gritting from the nationals judges to get her to Pyeongchang.

I really wanted Ashley on the Olympic team over Karen, but after watching this event, it's pretty clear that Ashley is simply not competitive with the top women anymore. Karen isn't now, but she could get there. I think the USFSA is fine with the decision, as Ashley would not have medaled in the individual event, nor could she have done anything to improve the Team Bronze result. Now, if these women bomb at Worlds, that could be a different story...

 

[Proxy]

I've said a few times since last night that the only real judging I'm angry about is Sakamoto placing behind Kostner, maybe even Choi should have been ahead of her too. But I've changed my mind, there's now a second placement I'm really unhappy with. As much as I like Mirai and was rooting for her, she mailed in that free skate but Karen really fought for hers despite the mistakes. She missed a top 10 finish at the Olympics by a fraction of a point to someone who didn't care about it and (imo) didn't earn it on the ice.

Karen should have been 10th and Mirai should have been 11th. Honestly, Bradie's PCS doesn't deserve anything near what she got either. I'm really unhappy Karen did not finish top 10.

 

[chuckm]

Bradie landed a clean 3/3 and 3 more clean triples, one in a 3/2/2 combination. Her errors were two stepouts with URs in the middle of her program---relatively minor, and she recovered quickly and went on to finish the rest of her program cleanly. That's why she got decent PCS scores and a higher score than Karen and Mirai.
Karen had a total of two clean triples, her opening 3z, and the 3z in a 3/2 combo. Her 3f got an edge call, the 3s on her 3-jump combo was <, she stepped out of her solo 3s, and she fell on her 3lo. Once she made an initial error, errors continued throughout her program.

 

[frida80]

I've said a few times since last night that the only real judging I'm angry about is Sakamoto placing behind Kostner, maybe even Choi should have been ahead of her too. But I've changed my mind, there's now a second placement I'm really unhappy with. As much as I like Mirai and was rooting for her, she mailed in that free skate but Karen really fought for hers despite the mistakes. She missed a top 10 finish at the Olympics by a fraction of a point to someone who didn't care about it and (imo) didn't earn it on the ice.

Karen should have been 10th and Mirai should have been 11th. Honestly, Bradie's PCS doesn't deserve anything near what she got either. I'm really unhappy Karen did not finish top 10.

Sorry, but in spite of those two pops Mirai landed 6 clean triples. Karen didn’t do her +3T combo, under rotated her salchow, and fell. Her score was quite generous for someone with only two clean triples. I love this girl, but I was really disappointed. I really expected her to do better.

 

[zanadude]

I was ready to go crazy for Mirai(and so were a lot of of Americans near me in the stands) but from that axel pop there just wasn’t any fight in the program. It definitely gave a vibe of “oh well I’ll just finish”. It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t great ether. It was actually really disappointing the more I think about it. Still, she’ll always have the team event! Karen could be great but I just have serious doubts at this point if she’ll ever pull it 100 percent together. Shades of Jeremy Abbott. Bradie is very fortunate to compete for a big influential nation because otherwise she would never rise out of the first two groups. Slow ice coverage and zero artistry. All in all, I wasn’t expecting much out of Karen or Bradie, but I had hoped Mirai would rise to the occasion after her wonderful team event. Ashley was sorely missed.

In hindsight, Mirai's goal was to be picked for the Olympics and picked for the team competition to earn her participation medal. Individual competition was just an unwanted burden.

 

[Figure 8's]

Going forward I want to see the US ladies taking more risks and push boundaries.

Russia and Japan are far ahead because they are testing limits and not being complacent.

I wish someone dares to train with a Japanese or Russian coach.

I so agree. What makes Alina such a joy to watch is that she attacks without any hesitation. US Ladies always seem so hesitant and cautious.

 

[frida80]

In hindsight, Mirai's goal was to be picked for the Olympics and picked for the team competition to earn her participation medal. Individual competition was just an unwanted burden.

Not true. Mirai wanted to do well in the individual event. She fell on her 3A in the short and knocked herself out of contention. So her team cheered her up by trying to get her to look at the bright side.

I’ve seen Mirai bomb too many times and I know when she’s phoning it in. She landed her 3F+3T and her 2A+3T+2T clean, when if she’s unfocused she will always underrotate them. (Actually, she will under rotated all her jumps, fall, step out, etc.) She’s just trying to deal with her set back positively. It just didn’t come across well.

 

[Procrastinator]

In hindsight, Mirai's goal was to be picked for the Olympics and picked for the team competition to earn her participation medal. Individual competition was just an unwanted burden.

She earned that medal, and was realistic about where her chances were best and what her primary responsibility was. She went into the short fully intending to do her best, but it didn't work out. She then "dared" to smile through and enjoy her program, incurring the wrath of every tom dick and sally slouched in front of their keyboards.

 

[brightphoton]

She’s just trying to deal with her set back positively. It just didn’t come across well.

This is the heart of it, essentially.