2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating | Page 315 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

Bradie landed a clean 3/3 and 3 more clean triples, one in a 3/2/2 combination. Her errors were two stepouts with URs in the middle of her program---relatively minor, and she recovered quickly and went on to finish the rest of her program cleanly. That's why she got decent PCS scores and a higher score than Karen and Mirai.
Karen had a total of two clean triples, her opening 3z, and the 3z in a 3/2 combo. Her 3f got an edge call, the 3s on her 3-jump combo was <, she stepped out of her solo 3s, and she fell on her 3lo. Once she made an initial error, errors continued throughout her program.

Bradie needs to be sent more to the bigger events to get rid of the nerves. She has the goods to get only better. Karen needs a good Technical Coach to help her get rid of her URs and land her jumps. Her programs are otherwise so good but the lack of landing her jumps mar them considerably. And no matter what some say, figure skating is still about the jumps.
 
This is the heart of it, essentially.

I wish people could understand how far Mirai came on four years and how she could inspire skaters to try new things like 3A and quads. Instead we’re tearing her down a bad interview after a imperfect skate.
 
IMO, she DOES hold a candle to Gracie. A very similar candle indeed. She needs a better choreographer just like Gracie did. Look, this may sound strange but, I think she might like having a Russian Coach. I know I did and my time in Russia was amazing. I certainly wasn't spoiled and I didn't have "Extra's." What I did have, were like minded dancers who took dancing as if their life depended on it. It wasn't for everyone but, it was definitely for me. Johnny definitely has a fondness for Russia and so do I.

Well, I haven't seen her skate in person. Perhaps that would help. When I watch Bradie skate, she skates with no emotion. It's boring, whether or not she lands her jumps. IMHO.
 
Bradie's errors were two stepouts with URs in the middle of her program---relatively minor

That's not minor. Those were -3 GOE mistakes too, not just stepping out but also putting a hand down on the ice.

Definitely agree with the other poster that Karen should have placed the best of the American ladies here. There is more to skating than counting triples, her quality was clearly the best of the 3. Some people are underrating her on the jumps anyway, she did two huge Lutzes and her Axel+Sal combo is very impressive even if she may have been slightly short at the end. The only thing Bradie had over Karen was landing a 3Lutz+3Toe rather than 3Lutz+2Toe and doing an extra double jump in combo. All of the other qualities Karen has deserve to go ahead of the 4.5 point advantage Bradie had on jump value.
 
I wonder if the USFSA is currently regretting putting Karen on the world team. With these Olympics wrapped up its safe to say she's been dreadful in every international competition this season. Her only solid competition was nationals and even then it required some pushing and teeth gritting from the nationals judges to get her to Pyeongchang. Combined with her "boot issues" she makes herself pretty unreliable at the moment. The pressure on the other two ladies, who ever they may be, to keep the three spots will be even crazier and that's not fair to them.

That's why it is a good idea to send athletes based on BOW and not results of a single competition (in my opinion). She has moments that are lovely, but she needs to be consistent to help the US. At least Mirai landed the triple and helped win the bronze. Karen has done very little in her International career, except her 4th at Worlds, which did keep us with 3 spots, but if you look at her International record other than that, it is ..not good.
 
Sorry, but in spite of those two pops Mirai landed 6 clean triples. Karen didn’t do her +3T combo, under rotated her salchow, and fell. Her score was quite generous for someone with only two clean triples. I love this girl, but I was really disappointed. I really expected her to do better.

Despite her 6 clean triples, Mirai's TES was 57.56 while Bradie's was 65.41 with 5 clean triples.

It breaks down this way:

JUMPS
39.47 Mirai All of her 'good' jumps were in the first half; only the 1z and the 3f (-GOE) were in the bonus
44.82 Bradie Tho her stepouts were in the bonus, her 3-jump combo and 3s were in the bonus, too. And her 3z+3t scored 11.4 to Mirai's 10.6 for 3f+3t

SPINS
11.26 Mirai Combo spin was L3, FC and Layback were L4; base value 8.90 + 2.36 GOE for the 3 spins
12.70 Bradie Layback, FC combo and combo all L4; base value 9.70 +3.00 GOE for the 3 spins

FOOTWORK.
6.73 Mirai L3 step sequence 3.73 (3.30 + 0.43 GOE) + ChSq1 3.00 (2.00+1.00 GOE)
7.90 Bradie L4 step sequence 5.00 (3.90 + 1.10 GOE) + ChSq1 2.90 (2.00+0.90 GOE)
 
Well, I haven't seen her skate in person. Perhaps that would help. When I watch Bradie skate, she skates with no emotion. It's boring, whether or not she lands her jumps. IMHO.

I haven't seen Bradie in person either however, seeing a skater in person definitely changes what you think of them. We all know how much I love Maria Butyrskaya and the reason I love her is that she was a great performer. She was very subtle and very "sexy" to see live. Even the best camera's couldn't capture her sexy looks. I have yet to see Bradie live so I don't really have an opinion on her skating.
 
Well, I haven't seen her skate in person. Perhaps that would help. When I watch Bradie skate, she skates with no emotion. It's boring, whether or not she lands her jumps. IMHO.

I have. She's not an actress, but she's fast and smooth on the ice (that comment that she was slow is just dead wrong--she was the fastest skater at Nationals) and her jumps just kind of twinkle (lower than Mirai's, but faster spins.) Her PCS scores are higher than some people expect because her choreography has some complex entries into jumps.

She is 20, but given how little international senior competitions she's had, she's a young skater and should be seen accordingly. She needs some polish and experience, but she's the real deal. And she was clean at the Team Short. She was the least experienced of the three Americans and she ended up in the highest position despite having to go first in the short.

More general rant--Schizoanalyst brings up some good points about helicopter moms--as a mother (kid does not skate), I'll add that it's generational-- you're really expected to managed your kid's extracurriculars and packaging for elite colleges. As someone who doesn't have natural helicopter tendencies, it's a damned nuisance. It's largely the result of how expensive college has become and how competitive it's become. That attitude certainly spills over into skating--which is both expensive and time consuming. Yes, a parent is going to monitor that kind of, well, investment. Anyway, it wasn't always like this. Skating was never cheap, but working-class families like Nancy Kerrigan's could find ways of making it work (Kerrigan's dad got a second job.) Often skaters weren't from affluent backgrounds (Tonya Harding, of course, but also Nicole Bobek for instance.) And that access matters because often your most driven kids are the ones who are striving for something. And if it didn't work out, there were decent jobs out there and affordable colleges.

That said, it's worth noting that these factors aren't having the same effect on Men's (where we have competitive skaters) or ice dancing (where we've got serious depth.). I think the issues with Ladies are many--I think a big one is that our coaching has been stuck in the past because we were so dominant in the past. That happens--you see it in other countries as well. Used to be Russia was dominant in everything, *but* Ladies and now it's the only discipline where it's dominant. And it's not because the Russians have superlative technique; it's because a couple of coaches have figured out to develop skaters for the current scoring system, while American coaches and, frankly, skating fans still prefer 6.0 skating with the lack of errors. Americans love Jason Brown, but he's not top-tier internationally.
 
Despite her 6 clean triples, Mirai's TES was 57.56 while Bradie's was 65.41 with 5 clean triples.

It breaks down this way:

JUMPS
39.47 Mirai All of her 'good' jumps were in the first half; only the 1z and the 3f (-GOE) were in the bonus
44.82 Bradie Tho her stepouts were in the bonus, her 3-jump combo and 3s were in the bonus, too. And her 3z+3t scored 11.4 to Mirai's 10.6 for 3f+3t

SPINS
11.26 Mirai Combo spin was L3, FC and Layback were L4; base value 8.90 + 2.36 GOE for the 3 spins
12.70 Bradie Layback, FC combo and combo all L4; base value 9.70 +3.00 GOE for the 3 spins

FOOTWORK.
6.73 Mirai L3 step sequence 3.73 (3.30 + 0.43 GOE) + ChSq1 3.00 (2.00+1.00 GOE)
7.90 Bradie L4 step sequence 5.00 (3.90 + 1.10 GOE) + ChSq1 2.90 (2.00+0.90 GOE)

Thanks for including this--for all the complaints about Bradie's choreography, she did a program that was geared to rack up points under the current system. That was clear if you looked at her scores during the Fall and paid attention to where the other Americans were placing. You can, like Blades of Passion, complain that Karen Chen deserved better, but Bradie scoring higher isn't a surprise to anyone who paid attention to how skaters were being scored during the Fall.
 
We don't don't know what Ashley would have done, so we can't say. Some pull it together and really do well (Adam). I'm suspicious they chose Chen over Ashley to make a point to Ashley to not criticize the Powers That Be. Deep down I think Chen knew that. I fully blame the Federation for her. What the Federation didn't like was that she called them out on this. I think the way she did it came off as a hissy fit or at least could be construed that way., but more often than not, when she criticizes TPTB, she's spot on which they HATE. I fully blame the Federation. You don't use spots to make a point.

With regards to Bradie, she had a lot of people said that she's out of her league, doesn't belong or things to this effect. No matter how tough a competitor you are, that has to get in your head on some level. When doubt creeps in, you make mistakes. Gracie Gold's issue was she didn't feel worthy of being among the top in the world which eventually turned into a self-fulfulling prophecy. I hope she did not question worthiness to be there.

Ultimately, Bradie may be a trasitional figure, because she is already 20 -- old for a skater. How many skaters burst onto the scene @ 20? She has technique and consistency, but not artistry. (Maybe she knows this and is OK with it.) They may need her as a buffer for younger skaters. I get the feeling US Ladies skating will get a --possibly much needed and overdue (from what I've been reading)-- change over in the discipline. Realistically, although you may have 1 or 2 holdovers, you'll be looking at the juniors (or even the next level or 2 down) for the next Olympics.
 
Irina Slutskaya, Maria Butryskaya, Carolina Kostner, Ashley Wagner--all peaked later rather than earlier. Bradie's been around, but she was injured for two years, so it's not like she couldn't skate and then could. She was sidelined.

As for no artistry, I think that's not true. She's a bit raw, but she's musical--her timing on jumps is right on and even this season, I've seen the beginnings of interpretation with the Cinderella number. She hasn't had the backing or experience to build a character. The criticism she's gotten for daring to be better technically than better-known skaters tells you all you need to know, in some ways, as to why the U.S. isn't developing new talent the way it should. Makes me think of the outrage about Polina Edmunds daring to place second at Nationals and go to the Sochi Olympics. (Where she placed ninth.)

Americans seem too quick to look for next new thing in skating and then abandon all hope when that skater turns out to be human. It's deeply unhelpful.

As for Bradie "being transitional" I'm not sure what that means in this context--that she won't get the OGM next Olympics? Probably not since most skaters don't. Does it mean she'll never medal at Worlds? That's not clear to me at all. She has the TES and even with mistakes, she placed ninth in her first big competition. She doesn't have a UR problem. Even when she made errors, she didn't implode, but kept going at her program. Better choreography, better costuming, some astute coaching--well, why wouldn't she be capable of medalling at Worlds?
 
Maybe it's more popular over there because their skaters have better manners?

It might be more popular over there because their skaters, or at least their ladies skaters, have a modicum of competitive grit and actually take accountability for their performances.

Imagine a Russian girl saying that she performed poorly because she missed her Mommy. Eteri would have her vocal cords removed.
 
But they're not Russian, they're American and the culture in general but also in relation to figure skating is completely different.

If these are misunderstandings because the American culture is completely different, then why would other Americans also be criticising their remarks?

In my experience, the characteristics of a jerk are fairly universal.
 
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