2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[jaylee]

No. Nathan couldn't do it alone. If Max hadn't skated as well as he did then the US would have been sunk no matter what Nathan did.

It's true that no one skater can pull off earning 3 spots alone, since you have to take the combined total of the top 2 skater placements from any particular country. That said, which is harder to do, place 1st or 2nd overall or place 11th? Which skater couldn't have done -- placed -- any better, Nathan or Max?

I think Max and Nathan did very well together to earn three spots. I think it's odd though to claim that "If Max hadn't skated as well as he did then the US would have been sunk no matter what Nathan did," which makes it look like Max did more for three spots than Nathan.

 

[el henry]

A bit of a interesting piece of interesting information, RE: Andrew Torgashev from a Colorado Springs NPR affiliate reporter:

https://twitter.com/jacobbrownell/status/977615374911864833



That's cool that Andrew participated in the March for Our Lives event there! I remember hearing that he didn't live too far from the school where the shooting happened.

But also interested that Andrew has appeared to have moved to Colorado! He had started working with Christy Krall at the end of this season -- so is he going with her full-time? This is good news considering his jump struggles.

Andrew has been posting on his IG from Co. Springs for two or three weeks now, and I never thought of a change in training location. Duh! This would be great news, I hope he announces soon (you know me, I like announcements)

He said in one post while still in Fla. that he lived across the street from the high school in Parkland, and if he attended public school (ETA: if he had not been moving), that would have been his school. He appears deeply affected.

 

[skylark]

Hooray for Nathan , World Champion! Hooray for Max, really coming through so powerfully and proving that every team member is very important, including a 3rd alternate. And Hooray for Vincent, who delivered an emotional, technically great SP, and let's not forget his 6th place at the Olympics at age 17. I'm proud of them all.

Since Nathan is now World Champion, I really wonder what he is going to do. I can see him retiring now and going to school full time. He recently stated that he had applied to several universities and was waiting to hear back from them.

In a recorded interview after the Olympics, Nathan seemed to say that school is highest priority for at least one year; he will see how it works out to do both. Then he'll re-evaluate. I cannot quote him perfectly, but he said something like, he might also put off subsequent college years (one? more?) to concentrate on skating.

Anyone have a video of the medal ceremony? It'll be great to hear the US anthem again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITi22ZbTlhY

I was very pleased today, watching it. I want to see our athletes singing our national anthem lustily when they've won gold and it's played for them. Not until today did I see Nathan's mouth moving, and now I know why I hadn't seen it before. He barely moves his mouth, but he was singing! The close-up was still barely close enough, even today for me to see it. Nathan, being his usual under-stated self.
His post-win interview was wonderful. Sorry, I couldn't quickly find a link. When asked if this was (bittersweet?) after what happened in February, he said, no, that he'd learned from the Olympics, he was very happy with this gold medal, and he "wouldn't trade it for anything."

What a mess. Doesn’t the US federation communicate with their skaters? After olympics it was pretty obvious that Adam along with Ross were not going.

If I have understood correctly, US fed does not assume that anyone will withdraw until they announce it (Adam) or refuse an invitation to compete (Ross). To me, that is the best approach.

 

[ice coverage]

Congratulations to Ross Miner , who won one of Professional Skaters Association's 2018 EDI Awards for Best Performances at the 2018 Prudential U.S. Championships in San Jose, CA.

... The award is based on the "total performance" with an eye to costuming, presentation, music selection, choreography, style, and technique. Winners were determined by a committee present at nationals that reviewed all long and short programs at the junior and senior levels for each discipline. ....

Ross' FS won for the Men's discipline;
Mirai's FS for Ladies;
Madi H/Zach's FD for Ice Dance;
Tarah/Danny's FS for Pairs;
Skyliners, SC of New York, Senior FS for Synchro.

http://www.skatepsa.com/psa/Best-Performances.html
https://www.facebook.com/ProfSk8rsA...977363114767/1735691303143357/?type=3&theater (Mar 23)​

---

A bit of a interesting piece of interesting information, RE: Andrew Torgashev from a Colorado Springs NPR affiliate reporter:

https://twitter.com/jacobbrownell/status/977615374911864833



That's cool that Andrew participated in the March for Our Lives event there! I remember hearing that he didn't live too far from the school where the shooting happened.

But also interested that Andrew has appeared to have moved to Colorado! He had started working with Christy Krall at the end of this season -- so is he going with her full-time? This is good news considering his jump struggles.

Christy Krall has been part of Torgashev's coaching team for at least the past couple of seasons, and he has made numerous visits to Colorado Springs in the couple of years that I have paid attention to him.
But it would be a change if he really has made a permanent move to Colorado Springs.
It would mean leaving his parents in Florida, where his father has been his primary coach (AFAIK) and his mother has been his choreographer.

(ETA:

It is Vincent who added Christy to his team only recently -- shortly before 2018 Nats, IIRC.

In the official program for 2017 Nats, Christy is listed as one of Andrew's five coaches.)​

Andrew posted a video snippet of his March for Our Lives speech today on Instagram. Scroll/swipe to the third panel.

andrewtorg29

Today We Spoke. Today We Marched. Today We Made Change.
.
.
.
Today I spoke and continue the movement to make a change. This has been the proudest moment of my life. Together we will make a change. #marchforourlives

https://www.instagram.com/p/BguKXypltfr/?taken-by=andrewtorg29​

Loads of respect to Andrew for his activism.

---

I'm over the moon that Max contributed to earning three spots for next year. Congratulations to him. :yay:
And of course to Nathan.
Hugs to Vincent.

 

[#1Kerryfan]

Hooray for Nathan , World Champion! Hooray for Max, really coming through so powerfully and proving that every team member is very important, including a 3rd alternate. And Hooray for Vincent, who delivered an emotional, technically great SP, and let's not forget his 6th place at the Olympics at age 17. I'm proud of them all.



In a recorded interview after the Olympics, Nathan seemed to say that school is highest priority for at least one year; he will see how it works out to do both. Then he'll re-evaluate. I cannot quote him perfectly, but he said something like, he might also put off subsequent college years (one? more?) to concentrate on skating.

I really hope he doesn't put skating aside until the next Olympics. It's so wonderful to have a world champion again! School can wait.

 

[el henry]

More on Andrew T.: According to this article in the Colorado Springs Gazette, he has permanently moved to COS:

http://gazette.com/colorado-springs...gh-in-protesting-gun-violence/article/1623268

The focus of the article is the Andrew's participation in the march, and not his skating, but still appears to confirm it was a long-term move:

" Watching from his [Torgashev's] home across the street, he saw police, EMTs and SWAT rush past to the high school while a helicopter circled overhead. It 'didn't feel real,' he said. 'I would've been involved in the shooting if I wasn't ... moving.' Saturday, three weeks after moving to Colorado Springs, Torgashev walked arm-in-arm with his friends, leading more than 2,000 people in the March for Our Lives....."

Also much respect to Andrew for his community involvement, and very curious to see if Christy, rather than his folks, is his "main" coach.:scratch3:

 

[karne]

It's true that no one skater can pull off earning 3 spots alone, since you have to take the combined total of the top 2 skater placements from any particular country. That said, which is harder to do, place 1st or 2nd overall or place 11th? Which skater couldn't have done -- placed -- any better, Nathan or Max?

I think Max and Nathan did very well together to earn three spots. I think it's odd though to claim that "If Max hadn't skated as well as he did then the US would have been sunk no matter what Nathan did," which makes it look like Max did more for three spots than Nathan.

I was directly replying to someone who was claiming only Nathan was to be given credit for the three spots.

 

[skylark]

I really hope he doesn't put skating aside until the next Olympics. It's so wonderful to have a world champion again! School can wait.

If my possibly flu-addled (in February) brain is recalling correctly, Nathan didn't mention putting skating aside. He'd see how it worked to do both, re-evaluate, and then possibly put college off to train skating full-time.

 

[skylark]

It's true that no one skater can pull off earning 3 spots alone, since you have to take the combined total of the top 2 skater placements from any particular country. That said, which is harder to do, place 1st or 2nd overall or place 11th? Which skater couldn't have done -- placed -- any better, Nathan or Max?

I think Max and Nathan did very well together to earn three spots. I think it's odd though to claim that "If Max hadn't skated as well as he did then the US would have been sunk no matter what Nathan did," which makes it look like Max did more for three spots than Nathan.

If Nathan had come in 3rd, we would only have two spots. So it doesn't quite work to say "no matter what Nathan did."

 

[MarinHondas]

Max did his job, the fact is that if he hadn't pulled up from 15th and made 11th place, the U.S. would have only two spots despite Nathan winning. Nathan did incredibly well. So amazing to see him as world champion. His Olympics and post Olympics worlds is experience is SO similar to Mao in 2014. I am sure others have said the same but... almost an identical experience and Nathan has MAO'S last dancer as his LP!!

 

[ice coverage]

No. Nathan couldn't do it alone. If Max hadn't skated as well as he did then the US would have been sunk no matter what Nathan did. ...

If Nathan had come in 3rd, we would only have two spots. So it doesn't quite work to say "no matter what Nathan did."

Two things:

-- If Max's placement had been thirteenth or lower (instead of his actual placement of eleventh), then the U.S. would have been sunk in terms of spots for 2019. No matter what Nathan did.

-- As karne said, Nathan alone could not earn three spots.
Hypothetically, if/if/if Max had declined Worlds (meaning that the U.S. would have run out of alternates and would have had only two entries for Men), then the U.S. would have only two spots for 2019.​

Max's presence and placement made a difference between two spots vs. three.

As did Nathan's presence and placement.

---

ETA:

Another tidbit re Colorado Springs (which perhaps means nothing):

A few weeks ago, Emmanuel Savary said he was moving (but did not say to where).

Per @eman_savary's Instagram story today, his mother and he are visiting Garden of the Gods Park.
Maybe they are in Colorado Springs only for Emmanuel to get choreo from someone?? Or maybe something else is happening??? (Or maybe nothing related to his skating??)​

---

ETA:

Photo of Ross Miner with Maisy Ma, both of whom headlined today's show in celebration of Skating Club of Amherst's 50th anniversary:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgxCRxKH8FV/?taken-by=maisyma1999​

Ross was added to the show just a few days ago.

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...astelli-Tran&p=2050862&viewfull=1#post2050862​

 

[oatmella]

If Max didn’t skate well and move up in placement, even if Nathan had won by 100 points (lol), there would still be only 2 spots for worlds next year. Nathan himself gave Max props for what he did - so debating this seems a bit silly.

 

[frida80]

Max did his job, the fact is that if he hadn't pulled up from 15th and made 11th place, the U.S. would have only two spots despite Nathan winning. Nathan did incredibly well. So amazing to see him as world champion. His Olympics and post Olympics worlds is experience is SO similar to Mao in 2014. I am sure others have said the same but... almost an identical experience and Nathan has MAO'S last dancer as his LP!!

People have noticed. This popped up on my time line last month.

http://eggplantgifs.tumblr.com/post/170985072768/maos-last-dance-maos-last-dancer

 

[TontoK]

Also much respect to Andrew for his community involvement, and very curious to see if Christy, rather than his folks, is his "main" coach.:scratch3:

Having been in the awkward situation of being my own son's coach (different sport), I do not recommend it.

My son improved remarkably when we got him another coach. Granted, amature golf isn't the same as world elite skating, but I bet the basic father/coach-son relationship is the same.

Another coach was better for him, it was better for me, it was better for the team.

 

[Tahuu]

His post-win interview was wonderful. Sorry, I couldn't quickly find a link. When asked if this was (bittersweet?) after what happened in February, he said, no, that he'd learned from the Olympics, he was very happy with this gold medal, and he "wouldn't trade it for anything."
.

That was at the men's post-FS press conference. Nathan said (On whether he would take back his short program performances at the Olympic Games): "No, the Olympics is what it is and I learned so much more from making mistakes in the short program than if I had skated better or like I did here. It helped me improve as a skater and taught me how to approach big competitions, and that will help me better than if I’d done this short program there."

Sylvia has transcribed Nathan's remarks and answers at the press. https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/nathan-chen-slaythan-fans-thread.97713/page-22#post-5339664.

He's quite humble to say at the opening remark: "I’m so happy I was able to do what I did here. Again, I learned a lot from the Olympics where I didn’t do things at all the way I wanted to, except in the long program. I wanted to do a better short here and long program too. It was an honor to win and to represent the US and to come out in 2018 with a gold medal (after Evan Lysacek’s in 2009), and it’s an honor to be sitting here with him (Shoma Uno) with the silver medal (NB Mikhail Kolyada had not yet arrived)," and (On the point deficit between him and the other medalists): "Shoma is injured, we knew that all week, and through the short program and long program at Olympics he didn’t do that. I sympathize because I’ve competed with injuries so I know how difficult it can be. I wouldn’t look at the point deficit, I’ll take it as a win for today and keep working and I know these guys will do too."

ISU's Video of the press conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3VCwmExAx0

 

[oatmella]

I’m impressed with Nathan in interviews - he is quite articulate and always complimentary to others. I am also impressed with his maturity in how he answered that question regarding the worst moment of his skating career - especially considering his young age.

 

[Erin9]

I’m impressed with Nathan in interviews - he is quite articulate and always complimentary to others. I am also impressed with his maturity in how he answered that question regarding the worst moment of his skating career - especially considering his young age.

So am I. I’m very impressed.

 

[andromache]

Having been in the awkward situation of being my own son's coach (different sport), I do not recommend it.

My son improved remarkably when we got him another coach. Granted, amature golf isn't the same as world elite skating, but I bet the basic father/coach-son relationship is the same.

Another coach was better for him, it was better for me, it was better for the team.

This is exactly why Daniel Samohin desperately needs a new coach. After a certain point, no one is going to flourish with their parent as a primary coach. The professionalism of someone who is so heavily personally invested in the skater can provide the best perspective.

(Seriously, Daniel Samohin is such a wasted talent at this point. Not a US man, I know, but that's what this comment has made me think of.)

Also, I hope Andrew is indeed moving to a new primary coach. I imagine the benefit to his skating will be huge in the long-term.

If Nathan wants to experiment with going to school while training, after the Olympics is the time to do it. That way he can figure out what works/doesn't work and make adjustments for the next Olympics. I wonder if he plans on relocating for an Ivy League or anything like that?

 

[el henry]

Having been in the awkward situation of being my own son's coach (different sport), I do not recommend it.

My son improved remarkably when we got him another coach. Granted, amature golf isn't the same as world elite skating, but I bet the basic father/coach-son relationship is the same.

Another coach was better for him, it was better for me, it was better for the team.

I agree; Andrew has been coached by his parents up until now, and as I understand it, they were elite skaters in Russia, but it does not mean they are the best coaches for him. I am happy he is expanding his horizons, if he is in fact expanding them.

Of course, there is always an exception to prove the rule. Misha Ge has been coached for most of his career by his father, Jun Ge. I see that as a special case because 1) Misha is doing what Misha does, and few elites have had his career arc and 2) Misha’s competition is “internal”; he does not have to worry about making Uzbekistan’s national team. And even Misha has spoken on the difficulty of listening to his father as a coach on the ice, and as a father off the ice. It is not an easy path.

 

[ice coverage]

Expected USFS funding for next season, per 2018-19 envelope criteria (assuming no retirements among the following):

Envelope A, Tier 1:
- Nathan Chen, Worlds 1st place

Envelope A, Tier 2:
- Vincent Zhou, OWG 6th place
- Adam Rippon, OWG 10th place
- Jason Brown, Senior GPF 6th

Envelope B, Tier 1
- Max Aaron, Worlds 11th
- Ross Miner, Nats 2nd

Envelope B, Tier 2
- Grant Hochstein, Nats 5th

Envelope C, Tier 1
- Tim Dolensky, Nats 7th
- Alex Johnson, Nats 8th
- Camden Pulkinen, U.S. Junior Champion
- Alex Krasnozhon, JGP 1st (Australia, Croatia)
- Andrew Torgashev, JGPF qualifier

[Disclaimer that I did not attempt to determine:
- Top 24 in season's best scores for the 2017-18 season for junior athletes and teams
- Top 24 in world standings for the 2017-18 season for junior athletes and teams]​

Envelope C, Tier 2
- Tomoki Hiwatashi, Junior Worlds 7th
- Dinh Tran, Nats (junior) 2nd
- Maxim Naumov, Nats (junior) 3rd

Envelope D, Tier 1
- Ryan Dunk, Nats (junior) 4th
- Tony Lu, Nats (junior) 5th
- Alex Wellman, Nats (junior) 6th

Envelope D, Tier 2
- Goku Endo, Nats (novice) 1st
- Max Lake, Nats (novice) 2nd
- Nicholas Hsieh, Nats (novice) 3rd​

Reference links for placements:

http://usfigureskating.org/story?id=84032&menu=TeamUSA
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2018/26192/results.html
www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/wc2018/index.htm​

Corrections welcome.