Miki versus Mao at Skate America

[Ladskater]

I only saw the short program and thought for sure Mao Asada was a shoe in to win after her brilliant short program. What happened? I was not as impressed with Miki Ando's program. It was okay, but frantic as Dick Button pointed out.

Mao is a beautiful skater. I thought she had the best program as well. She is way above the rest of the field - including Kimmie Meissner the world champ.

 

[Mathman]

You can check out the discussions about this in these two threads in the Skate America folder under Events.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14459

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14470

Plus eye-witness reports from Ptichka and Kasey on all the performances, Mao's included.

 

[R.D.]

Re. Mao: It's probably good to struggle now so you can work the kinks out and pull it together by the middle and end of the season (i.e. Nationals and Worlds).

OTOH, those that come out like gangbusters...have to worry about them because they might be burned out by the end. Miki may be good now but what about in March?

 

[chuckm]

That thought has entered my mind, too. I think when the beginning of the season goes too smoothly, a sort of boredom factor sets in. In the 2003-2004 season, Miki won the JGPF and Junior Worlds, then went to Senior Worlds. Junior Worlds was shown on TV that year, and you never saw such a bored skater in your life. Kimmie and Katy won silver and bronze, and the commentator noted how enthusiastic the two youngsters were compared to the super laid-back and stolid Miki. Miki didn't skate all that well at Senior Worlds that year, either. Her "Firebird" was notable for its lack of fire. She had been touted as a possible medalwinner because of her 4S, but she never even tried it, and she finished 4th (which was her best finish to date).

 

[Skye]

That thought has entered my mind, too. I think when the beginning of the season goes too smoothly, a sort of boredom factor sets in. In the 2003-2004 season, Miki won the JGPF and Junior Worlds, then went to Senior Worlds. Junior Worlds was shown on TV that year, and you never saw such a bored skater in your life. Kimmie and Katy won silver and bronze, and the commentator noted how enthusiastic the two youngsters were compared to the super laid-back and stolid Miki. Miki didn't skate all that well at Senior Worlds that year, either. Her "Firebird" was notable for its lack of fire. She had been touted as a possible medalwinner because of her 4S, but she never even tried it, and she finished 4th (which was her best finish to date).

This is getting OT, but didn't Miki go to the 2004 Jr. Worlds just because she was the favorite in both 2002 and 2003 but never got the gold? She was the Japanese champion that year and really shouldn't need to go to Juniors, so I thought that she must have really wanted that Junior World Champion title. And AFAIR, Miki attempted the 4S in the qualifying round at Sr. Worlds but fell on it (it probably wasn't ratified anyway) so came up with less aggressive programs in the short and long.

 

[Zuranthium]

I was really happy to see Miki skate two clean programs, she definitely deserved to win Skate America. Her 3Lutz/3Loop is looking stronger than ever and she has more energy in her programs (even if it's not always beautifully controlled).

If MAO doesn't get her 3Axle consistent again, Miki is going to be the top Japanese skater this year (unless Fumie is suddenly doing a Triple-Triple combination).

 

[gio]

Don't you think that in terms of jumps Mao is a little bit incomplete compared with Miki and Kimmie.
Mao's triple axel isn't always there, and IMO Ito's and Harding's ones were a lot better. Her Lutz is flutzed, the salchow inexistant, the toe loop a toe axel. She has a good loop and flip though.

 

[nymkfan51]

Don't you think that in terms of jumps Mao is a little bit incomplete compared with Miki and Kimmie.
Mao's triple axel isn't always there, and IMO Ito's and Harding's ones were a lot better. Her Lutz is flutzed, the salchow inexistant, the toe loop a toe axel. She has a good loop and flip though.

Not at all. Mao's jumps are beautiful and her consistency will come in time. Her 3A is nicer than Kimmie's, who I believe has just landed one?

Miki was the stunner in this competition though. She skated with authority and real fire. She was spectacular! I spoke to her at the hotel Saturday night and she was just beaming! If she continues to improve like this, she will be very hard to beat. In fact, the entire Japanese team is very strong ... and very nice too! I got to see a lot of them staying at the same hotel, and they were all just lovely people. I'm hoping for big things from them this season!!!

 

[gio]

Not at all. Mao's jumps are beautiful and her consistency will come in time. Her 3A is nicer than Kimmie's, who I believe has just landed one?

Don't get me wrong, overall I like Mao more than Kimmie (but less than Miki).
Mao has a beautiful loop, flip and 2axel. But she doesn't have the salchow, her toe loop is a toe axel and the lutz is a flutz. So she isn't a complete skater. She is very young so she still has the time to improve and I hope she'll fill the gap.
I agree that Mao's 3axel is nicer than Kimmie's, but I still like more the Ito and Harding ones.

 

[chuckm]

Mao doesn't do a salchow or a stand-alone toe loop. The only time she does a toe loop is in combination with her 3A. All of her other combinations end in loops, not toe loops. She does have a problem in the FS, though, if she can't land that 3A. That severely cuts back her chances to build points with her limited range of jumps, and she seems so obsessed with landing it that her entire program goes down the tubes if she misses it first out.

A 3A is worth 7.5 points, a 2A only 3.3; a 3A3T is worth 11.5 points. Mao singled her 3A at the start of the program and got just 1.1 points, a loss of 6.4 points. She then immediately tried the 3A combination and doubled the 3A and the 3T as well. Instead of 11.5 points, she got just 5.6 points for the combination. Then she tried a triple flip, but doubled it. In her first three jumping passes, she lost a total of 15.9 points. Instead of continuing on with the program, she once again attempted a 3A and again doubled it.. Finally, after more than two minutes into the program, she landed her first triple: a 3F. But by then Mao had completely lost track of where she was. She could have turned the 3F or the 3Z later in the program, into a combo, but she didn't. She did just one more combo, a 3L2L, and a solo 3Z, and that was it. Even worse, she lost levels on her spiral sequence, her layback and her spins in the second half of her program, probably because she was so distracted by missing her jumps.

I think Mao's FS at SA was almost a duplicate of what happened at Jr. Worlds last year. So this may be developing into a behavior pattern for her, and that is NOT good.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I really don't think we can count Mao based on one competition. Had she thrown in 3 triple triples at the end of her routine she would have won (provided she was skating at her best). Strategy in CoP scoring is the thing - not aesthetic skating.

BTW, from my vantage, Mao jumps the highest of all the Ladies, and most men.

Joe

 

[SeaniBu]

OK, I realize that there will be results in the "seasons" thread topics and such. Some are seeing this real time and some have to wait.

Yes I should not look if I don't want to know.....

But I know the Men's, Dance and Pairs for example, and would like to come into the "season topic area" and see what has been said about them (the ones I saw) with out seeing results in the title of a thread to events that I have not seen yet.

Like I said, yes I am aware that the "seasons" thread have results. But there are some that I know that I would like to see feedback and could not get to those topics that I know the results with out seeing the results in the tile of this thread to an event I did not know the outcome yet and preferred to wait.

Not the end of the world, I am not mad, but I want to point out that I think it might be best or just a little nicer to keep the "spoilers" in the thread rather than in the title.

JMO, disagree if you like, and I can just wait 'til I see all the events before I come to see any of the feedback, but I thought I could pop in and see what was being said about last night's events I did see, and would still not know Ladies' if I just avoided the Ladie's LP Notes thread, but bam, oof - there were the results in the title.

I guess if this happens normally then I will just have to wait to see or partake in conversations. Oh well, my loss, I 'spose I should have waited until 11/06 to look in this area.

:indiff: hwell: I am really NOT upset Lad, just stating an opinion and preference. If no one agrees, or that is not the way things work around here, that is fine and I am not going to be bothered, I have no adversity to changing what I need to do to avoid this. I will just think of it as a learning experience:agree: :yes:

Now I just realized in posting to this thread I put the results on the front page of the forum. OOps

 

[chuckm]

I really don't think we can count Mao based on one competition. Had she thrown in 3 triple triples at the end of her routine she would have won (provided she was skating at her best). Strategy in CoP scoring is the thing - not aesthetic skating.

BTW, from my vantage, Mao jumps the highest of all the Ladies, and most men.

Joe

Mao could have done a number of things to make up for missing the 3A---but she didn't. She threw away her choreography and was bent on getting that 3A in, and it totally undid her program, including the aesthetics. She got lower PCS scores than both Miki and Kimmie. Mao does not skate smart!

I am not counting Mao out, but this is the second time at a major competition that she has allowed the failed 3A to disrupt her program. She needs to understand that catastrophic reaction is not the way to win competitions. Heck, if Sarah Meier had landed her 2A in her FS, Mao would have been off the podium.

Mao is clearly in the midst of a growth spurt, and when she starts filling out she may have even more jump problems. She needs to calm down and come up with a strategy to deal with unexpected failures. She needs to skate with a level head, not in a panic.

 

[Kasey]

Mao is a beautiful skater. I thought she had the best program as well. She is way above the rest of the field - including Kimmie Meissner the world champ.

I would agree with the SP, I think hers was the best. But for best LP? Aside from Miki, I would put it at Sarah Meier, who is one of the most elegant skaters out there, and managed to crank out all level 4 spins in her LP. (And came within 2 points of beating Mao for bronze). Mao doesn't have as much expressiveness as many other skaters, and when her jumps are not on, her face goes totally flat, thus not selling the program well.

 

[Ladskater]

OK, I realize that there will be results in the "seasons" thread topics and such. Some are seeing this real time and some have to wait.

My apologies. I assume everyone in the US has seen Skate America. Here in Canada we get it televised in spurts. ABC is not very good at broadcasting skating events. I guess figure skating is at the bottom of their sports roster in terms of importance. I will try to keep the topic "Top Secret" next time.

 

[SeaniBu]

I will try to keep the topic "Top Secret" next time.

I hope you understand I am not mad at all, I really like reading your post and everything. I was just trying to hold out finding out. I feel no need to apologize is necessary from you, but thank you.
Respectfully
Sean

 

[floskate]

I'm not sure where this rumour that Mao's triple axel is hit and miss came from. If you read the practice reports on other sites she didn't miss it all week and landed two in the warm up for the LP.

She has an insanely difficult entry to the first which I think is ridiculous and possibly the problem. She's grown loads since last season and is now 5'3" I believe. Yet she is apparently still landing everything with ridiculous ease - in practice.

As JPN TV fluffs this summer have shown, Mao has completely reworked her toeloop under Arutunian - she's getting credit for them this season - and was working on a triple lutz, triple toe. Her flutz is also markedly better.

Have any of you ever seen what she has to go through at an event? I have. There's TV crews that follow her from the hotel elevator, to the rink, press conferences, camera in her face wherever she goes. Last season she dealt with it and had nothing to lose. This season the media are basically expecting her to win Worlds and continue a winning streak right through to Vancouver in 4 years time.

Who the hell can live up to that? Those of you who are happy to criticise, please try putting yourself in her 16 year old skates and see how you deal with all that. She is the most naturally talented skater I have ever seen, but she obviously needs time to adjust to the new situation she finds herself in.

 

[nymkfan51]

flo, I absolutely agree with you about Mao ... she was landing those 3A's in practice with ease. And ... I could not believe the way the Japanese press was all over her ... not just at the arena, but at the hotel as well. I think she is the real deal and will do just fine. I just love her style so much more than Kimmie's. She just seems to float across the ice, and then jump in the air and land with such a lightness. It's just incredible to me.

 

[Mathman]

I spoke to [Miki Ando] at the hotel Saturday night and she was just beaming! If she continues to improve like this, she will be very hard to beat. In fact, the entire Japanese team is very strong ... and very nice too! I got to see a lot of them staying at the same hotel, and they were all just lovely people. I'm hoping for big things from them this season!!!

Did you get a chance to converse with them? Do they like for fans to try to talk to them in English?