2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 85 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Yep, i currently live in such a country.
Brazil pays for their students to study abroad, and then, instead of returning to Brazil, they all go to work in US / Europe because there is better pay ^^

I am pretty sure in most of countries if the students decide to do it they pay back all the scholarships that they have got. I know many friends that paid back every single penny that they had received. Of course, some may get away through various means but I can not expect every single human being observes morality. We are full of faults after all.

Back to Medvedeva, she does not need to pay back anything as she produces, or hopefully will produce, results as she is training abroad :)
 
Well, you see, Russia is not just rusfed.
There is this thing. I mean, try doing the following:
- take the most well known figure skating of the current top crop in your country.
- take the average pension value
- then go asking people on the street if it would be fine if your government paid for the said skater to train overseas with a coach that charges an hourly rate equal to half of that pension value.
- see people's reaction

What does some random person's pension value have to do with a skating coach's fee? Those are apples and oranges.
 
What does some random person's pension value have to do with a skating coach's fee? Those are apples and oranges.
Why should the government spend a ton of money on a foreign coach's fees? It is not a case of not being able to get decent coaching at home. If Zhenya wishes to pay a coach substantially more that would be spent on her at home, she should fund the difference from private sources. She has sponsors and is not exactly destitute.
 
I simply don't care about the amounts. You see, I don't want them to spend russian tax money outside russia.
I want the fed to fund a local rink, which will employ local people. If they need to hire a foreign specialist, they can get the said specialist to move to russia, as they do with football coaches sometimes, for example. You know, so you pay the salary of the coach, and the coach then spends this money in russian stores and so on.

Every other skating federation has paid home country funding to other countries in the past, including payments to Russia from Asada, Weir, to Weaver & Poje most recently. So, why can't the same consideration be done by Russia to other nations?

TBH, I fail in attempting to understand your rational, moriel. Perhaps you are putting country, coaching and home choreography first, rather than the actual skater and their desire/need for a change?
 
Why should the government spend a ton of money on a foreign coach's fees? It is not a case of not being able to get decent coaching at home. If Zhenya wishes to pay a coach substantially more that would be spent on her at home, she should fund the difference from private sources. She has sponsors and is not exactly destitute.

At the scale of a country, the fees of a FS coach are basically nothing.
Besides i guess the federation sees it as an investment: she's at least the n°2 in the World right now and it's profitable for them to pay those fees, as they will earn more money than they spent thanks to her. Even from an economical point of view I think it's good for the federation (otherwise they wouldn't do it).

And when I see what the French Federation spends and the result they get in return (I'm French so I compare with it) , I definitely don't understand why you're complaining :biggrin:
 
Every other skating federation has paid home country funding to other countries in the past, including payments to Russia from Asada, Weir, to Weaver & Poje most recently. So, why can't the same consideration be done by Russia to other nations?

TBH, I fail in attempting to understand your rational, moreil. Perhaps you are putting country, coaching and choreography first, rather than the actual skater?
Did their skating federations fully fund their training abroad?

There is seriously not enough government money in Russian figure skating to fund every skater who may wish to train abroad. Funding is being cut for Team members even within Russia. If Zhenya, then why not any other member of Team Russia? Dancers had to find sponsors/spend their own money to go abroad in the past, and sending dancers to foreign coaches made a lot more sense.
 
At the scale of a country, the fees of a FS coach are basically nothing.
Besides i guess the federation sees it as an investment: she's at least the n°2 in the World right now and it's profitable for them to pay those fees, as they will earn more money than they spent thanks to her. Even from an economical point of view I think it's good for the federation (otherwise they wouldn't do it).

And when I see what the French Federation spends and the result they get in return (I'm French so I compare with it) , I definitely don't understand why you're complaining :biggrin:
What reason is there to think the Fed is even funding her?
 
Following moriel's logic my mum as government's worker can't spend her salary abroad because she is paid from taxpayers' money and it should stay in our country :sarcasm:

I know that investing in athletes and students who train or study abroad is controversial topic. Few month ago I read an article about millions of pounds British government looses because of scholarships which weren't paid back and I felt ashamed because I know people who are studying in UK and don't plan to return the money. On the other hand we are talking now about top athlete who won many medals for her country, represented Russia and delivered at Olympics despite the injury and went to Lausanne to defend her team's good name. Moving to the other side of the world at 18 is a huge deal and if she saw any chance to stay with Russian coach I bet she would have done it. Besides if it's considered as wasting taxpayers money I guess right now every Russian who emigrated should now pay back the government for received education
 
...Moving to the other side of the world at 18 is a huge deal and if she saw any chance to stay with Russian coach I bet she would have done it. Besides if it's considered as wasting taxpayers money I guess right now every Russian who emigrated should now pay back the government for received education

This :agree: Regardless of where we are from, all of us have received some sort of benefits from taxpayers money. So, before talking about a person that has already paid back to her home country a lot, we can think "How much do I have paid back?".
 
Following moriel's logic my mum as government's worker can't spend her salary abroad because she is paid from taxpayers' money and it should stay in our country :sarcasm:

I know that investing in athletes and students who train or study abroad is controversial topic. Few month ago I read an article about millions of pounds British government looses because of scholarships which weren't paid back and I felt ashamed because I know people who are studying in UK and don't plan to return the money. On the other hand we are talking now about top athlete who won many medals for her country, represented Russia and delivered at Olympics despite the injury and went to Lausanne to defend her team's good name. Moving to the other side of the world at 18 is a huge deal and if she saw any chance to stay with Russian coach I bet she would have done it. Besides if it's considered as wasting taxpayers money I guess right now every Russian who emigrated should now pay back the government for received education
Actually, it could be argued that sending less successful students from less successful disciplines is a wiser investment, because they can learn something they are not getting at home to get to a higher level. Zhenya is already at the top without help from abroad, what she wants to invest in is essentially her personal development.
 
Actually, it could be argued that sending less successful students from less successful disciplines is a wiser investment, because they can learn something they are not getting at home to get to a higher level. Zhenya is already at the top without help from abroad, what she wants to invest in is essentially her personal development.

We could also argue that the RusFed wants to have at least one athlete ready no matter what for the OGM in 2022, so not really personal development, but longevity and therefore an insurance for the federation :agree:
 
Do you seriously think Eteri is incapable of creating Champions aged 17+?
No, of course I don't. Reread what I wrote - my concern is that increasing the minimum age, especially for ladies, simply makes the senior ladies competitions much less interesting to view. With current regulations in place, we still have the chance to see the competition between the younger athletes and the more mature ones. We can watch and compare different approaches (more athletic vs more artistic). And most importantly, we can see every athlete competing against others at his/her peak, whenever that occurs. I don't want artificial barriers. Just browse this forum and see how many people are already saying they have more fun watching junior ladies' than the seniors. I definitely had more fun from the last season's junior GPs, the GPF, and the junior worlds. Not because I'm Russian and Russian junior ladies won, but because the quality of junior competitions was way higher. Seniors are on the edge of becoming boring and if ISU pushes the age limit further up, it'll be only worse for the spectators. ISU, don't kill FS, it's already ailing. In a better world, athletes should qualify entirely by their ratings, without any country limits, and represent only themselves. Something like tennis, more or less. Don't wake me up, I'm dreaming.
 
No, of course I don't. Reread what I wrote - my concern is that increasing the minimum age, especially for ladies, simply makes the senior ladies competitions much less interesting to view. With current regulations in place, we still have the chance to see the competition between the younger athletes and the more mature ones. We can watch and compare different approaches (more athletic vs more artistic). And most importantly, we can see every athlete competing against others at his/her peak, whenever that occurs. I don't want artificial barriers. Just browse this forum and see how many people are already saying they have more fun watching junior ladies' than the seniors. I definitely had more fun from the last season's junior GPs, the GPF, and the junior worlds. Not because I'm Russian and Russian junior ladies won, but because the quality of junior competitions was way higher. Seniors are on the edge of becoming boring and if ISU pushes the age limit further up, it'll be only worse for the spectators. ISU, don't kill FS, it's already ailing. In a better world, athletes should qualify entirely by their ratings, without any country limits, and represent only themselves. Something like tennis, more or less. Don't wake me up, I'm dreaming.
Raising the age would not even be necessary if skaters got PCS for actual PCS, not tech and not consistency. ISU first decided to launch new seniors' PCS into space to make them unreachable, and now they don't know how else to correct it except by raising age. Don't give 9s in PCS for the most difficult tech, so many problems would be solved. The artistic approach would actually stand a chance.
 
Well, the judges are relatively consistent within a specific tournament, so mixing ages is in fact not such a big deal.
 
The point inflation applies more or less evenly to all athletes, although of course judges have their darlings and cenerentolas
 
In my oppinion, they are totally free to do it, with their own personal money. I don't want government to fund it.




Well you see, I really dont want government pay USD110/hr to some foreign dude while my grandma earns USD250 a month.
Just repeating, for the 10th time or so. Athletes are fine to go wherever they want, just not with government money. RUssian government has no money to pay Orser $110/hr, period.
If Medvedeva can afford Orser, sure, she can train with him. If she cannot, well, we not always can afford the stuff we want, thats life.

then I guess that the money they made shouldnt go to the government either, yet they have to give the money they earn to the coaches (a part of it)
 
The point inflation applies more or less evenly to all athletes, although of course judges have their darlings and cenerentolas
This is more about why exactly Zhenya's PCS grew so much in the course of the first season and why Alina's PCS grew even more. At least in men nobody throws PCS at you right away even if you have 125 quads, you have to earn them.
 
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