Sasha not going to 2007 Nats
- Thread starter nymkfan51
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
But here's the thing, RD. You never hesitate to "start using what already happened to predict negative things for the future. For instance, on the Emily thread you just wrote
"...but sadly I think she'll [Alissa Czisney] fall at least twice. I don't even think pressure is a factor for her (look how she did at COR where she didn't get as much as a brief mention)...she has major jump problems that will probably never get resolved."
So if I say, I think Alissa will only fall once and might possibly win a medal, that's "hype."
When someone says, "hooray for Caroline Zhnag, she's going to be the next Olympic champion!!!!!" -- so what? That's the kind of fan every skater deserves to have at the head of her parade. Why be a Scrooge all the time?
I'm going on record right now: The Detroit Lions will win at least four games next year!!!!!!!!!!
Well, OK, at least three.
I thought we were discussing hype? I'm not hyping anyone right now.
No it's not.
I'm not talking ANY prediction. I'm referring to when people make skaters bigger than they really are by proclaiming them major champion after one good performance.
It's misunderstanding again. Two things I see here- Number One is that Praise and Hype are NOT the same thing!!!! Praise is good. Hype is neutral.
Number Two: Hype is NOT a bad thing. Let me repeat that in bold: Hype is NOT a bad thing! At least by itself.
It can become a bad thing, however, if the person in question fails to live up to it. Why? Because then the person will be scrutinized and bashed for it. THAT, folks, is where hype can hurt. It also adds pressure and some can handle it better than others.
No it's not.
I'm not talking ANY prediction. I'm referring to when people make skaters bigger than they really are by proclaiming them major champion after one good performance.
It's misunderstanding again. Two things I see here- Number One is that Praise and Hype are NOT the same thing!!!! Praise is good. Hype is neutral.
Number Two: Hype is NOT a bad thing. Let me repeat that in bold: Hype is NOT a bad thing! At least by itself.
It can become a bad thing, however, if the person in question fails to live up to it. Why? Because then the person will be scrutinized and bashed for it. THAT, folks, is where hype can hurt. It also adds pressure and some can handle it better than others.
Carolina Kostner has never skated well in her home country, as she succumbs to major nerves. She once blew every jump in the FS of Italian Nationals, and lost her National title back in 2004. She bombed at Euros 2005 in Torino. As far as I was concerned, it was a foregone conclusion that she would bomb at the Olympics.
Hype had nothing to do with her implosion.
Hype had nothing to do with her implosion.
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And what if she doesn't? What'll happen then?
I must say Carolina Kostner, along with Miki Ando were among those "hyped" skaters (people proclaiming them OLY champ or medalist) back around 04 or so. Yes, nerves are most likely to blame for her not-so-good showings in Italy. But one may ask, where did those nerves come from?
One may also ask, why do I consider the above "hype?" Because when (enough) people create expectations as big as that, you may find yourself "needing" to live up to them and therefore it has the same effect as hype. I think I remember some newpaper articles listing Carolina as an Olympic contender as well (a fair assessment actually given her performances at the time).
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Carolina trains in Germany, so she may feel she owes it to her countrymen to give a good performance in Italy. That never seems to happen.
However, it has to be said that in general, Carolina is not a consistent skater even when she performs outside Italy. She's never skated consistently in the GP. She might have one medal GP performance, then one major GP bomb. It's interesting that she medaled at Euros just before the Olympics, but couldn't land her jumps at all in Torino. Maybe when she has a success, the expectations of a repeat cause her to crumble at the next event.
However, it has to be said that in general, Carolina is not a consistent skater even when she performs outside Italy. She's never skated consistently in the GP. She might have one medal GP performance, then one major GP bomb. It's interesting that she medaled at Euros just before the Olympics, but couldn't land her jumps at all in Torino. Maybe when she has a success, the expectations of a repeat cause her to crumble at the next event.
I don't remember her being that great at Worlds either...and she wasn't coming off a good performance there. I think it's just a consistency issue. Sometimes you got it, other times you don't. It's sad though- I wonder if she really felt like she let people down at the Olympics. That's probably the biggest burden one can have.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
Yah, I don't think that hype played as much of a role for Carolina as it did for the fans. I myself felt that I expected more. But I did also expect "more" from a number of skaters. I was succumb to the hype - it was my bad.
Thanks for the info on where she trains. It sounded familiar - like it might have been mentioned during the Olys - but that was good to hear again - if I did hear it - because I completely forgot. Also interesting how the Italian performances for her seem to fall short. ?? At first thought that would sound like someone caving under pressure, but I don't know and would not feel comfortable assuming that. I wonder what could it be? I guess just a consistency thing all the way around. ?
Thanks for the info on where she trains. It sounded familiar - like it might have been mentioned during the Olys - but that was good to hear again - if I did hear it - because I completely forgot. Also interesting how the Italian performances for her seem to fall short. ?? At first thought that would sound like someone caving under pressure, but I don't know and would not feel comfortable assuming that. I wonder what could it be? I guess just a consistency thing all the way around. ?
Not a bad idea. What do you think, a few months, the day before comp?
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Then her fans will say, "you were robbed! you were robbed! But that's OK, we love you anyway. We'll get 'em next time!"
Let's hope so, for her sake. Less glamorous things have been said about other skaters who failed to live up to expectations...even by their own fans. That's the only issue I have with hype. Otherwise, it's OK.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
The bottom line is what Mathman says: SO WHAT? - IF A FAN IS A FANATIC ABOUT A SKATER AFTER SEEING THAT SKATER? What's wrong with praising a performance of a skater. What is it that gets your HYPERtension up. How fearful can one get over too many people enjoying a skater?
Let's move on.
Joe
Let's move on.
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I don't think Kimmie is relieved or feels anything one way or the other about who skates and who doesn't.
If you have the heart of a champion, you are there to skate for the championship. If anyone else shows up, so much the worse for them!
So do you then think the other top guys-Lambiel, Joubert etc...are not relieved if Plushenko is not at a major event, and just think if he is there "so much the worse for him." Or do none of them have the heard of a champion?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm not agreeing to anything. I know what hype is. I worked in a Press Agent's office. Hype is media publicity.
Joe
OK, so then we won't change each other's mind on this issue. Fair enough to me.
ETA: I think we all know what "hype" is (or is supposed to be). But expectations (read: NOT PRAISE NOR CRITICISM) from fans...I think the real question is figuring out where that fits in, hence this argument.
ETA: I think we all know what "hype" is (or is supposed to be). But expectations (read: NOT PRAISE NOR CRITICISM) from fans...I think the real question is figuring out where that fits in, hence this argument.
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- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
I really can't even be sure what anyone would agree to disagree on for sure.? I would have to think that each skater has a different mindset to somethings and what might effect one might not effect another - just like the posters. As MM was saying about Kimmie - at least the gist I got -, it shouldn't matter, that is if the skater is there to skate their best anyway. But I see things like a 2 instead of a 3 that originally was in the components and wonder - just wonder???? Not trying to cause waves - if the pressure to do the 3 was removed because of another's absence or that the closest competitor did not preform well so the skater opted to pull a 2 instead of a 3 - for it was "safer to land" and could get better judge marks or it just wasn't needed. ??? Like Shizuka's 2 at Olys where the 3 was planned. I am not sure why, but it might be she didn't feel like taking the risk.???? Not sure.
I guess I am under the impression the coaches / choreographers don't put something in that the skater is "less likely" to perform "clean" UNLESS there is someone at the event that will require they do this in order to beat them.??? I don't think that has directly anything to do with "hype." I think that is just effect of circumstance and the actions that may or my not follow are only result of said circumstances - regardless of hype or praise.
I would have to think that if Lambiel was not at an event that Joubert was at, he MIGHT feel less of a "necessity" to do all of the quads he has in the past. Rather get the marks for quality of 3 than to risk a quad and get it downgraded to a 3 and not receive "+s." But is that the skater with the heart of an athlete or someone playing it safe??? And is playing it safe a bad thing? Playing a smart "game" is part of being a great athlete IMO. Worthy question IMO.
I wonder if one skater might say it is most important to me to accomplish 4 clean Quads, where another might be more concerned with getting a personal best score with a "clean" plus getting from the judges - if both scenarios still added up to a possible win?
Would that be, playing the judges or the tech spec? Get the points from the component or from the GOE, which is more important to an individual skater I can only think is going to very. And this makes me see the CoP as the drive for focus on components at the current point in it's evolution.
The hype issue I see RD's point that it is neutral it's self, it is the reactions that are at question. But I don't see a problem with different reactions either - only the definitions that were getting confusing to me - opinions and interpretations are normal and somewhat acceptable to me anyhoo. And for some skaters Hype maybe a good thing - not that I have an example but trying to stay open minded instead of suggesting to posters what they should or shouldn't post because people are not agreeing on all issues and it not having anything to do with bashing.
Feel free to "slap me" if you like. :agree:
I guess I am under the impression the coaches / choreographers don't put something in that the skater is "less likely" to perform "clean" UNLESS there is someone at the event that will require they do this in order to beat them.??? I don't think that has directly anything to do with "hype." I think that is just effect of circumstance and the actions that may or my not follow are only result of said circumstances - regardless of hype or praise.
I would have to think that if Lambiel was not at an event that Joubert was at, he MIGHT feel less of a "necessity" to do all of the quads he has in the past. Rather get the marks for quality of 3 than to risk a quad and get it downgraded to a 3 and not receive "+s." But is that the skater with the heart of an athlete or someone playing it safe??? And is playing it safe a bad thing? Playing a smart "game" is part of being a great athlete IMO. Worthy question IMO.
I wonder if one skater might say it is most important to me to accomplish 4 clean Quads, where another might be more concerned with getting a personal best score with a "clean" plus getting from the judges - if both scenarios still added up to a possible win?
Would that be, playing the judges or the tech spec? Get the points from the component or from the GOE, which is more important to an individual skater I can only think is going to very. And this makes me see the CoP as the drive for focus on components at the current point in it's evolution.
The hype issue I see RD's point that it is neutral it's self, it is the reactions that are at question. But I don't see a problem with different reactions either - only the definitions that were getting confusing to me - opinions and interpretations are normal and somewhat acceptable to me anyhoo. And for some skaters Hype maybe a good thing - not that I have an example
but trying to stay open minded instead of suggesting to posters what they should or shouldn't post because people are not agreeing on all issues and it not having anything to do with bashing.Feel free to "slap me" if you like.
:agree:
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I could be wrong, but yes, that is what I believe. You cannot go into a championship thinking, "thank God the real champion isn't here, now I have a chance. I'm crap compared to Plushenko, but maybe now I can squeek though and win some sort of prize."
For instance, my respect for Yagudin took a little dip when he won 2000 worlds with an awful skate, then said afterward, "ha, ha on Plushenko, the record book will just show that I won, not that I stunk."
What good is a drawer full of medals if you are afraid to peek out the door in fear that the real champion might be there waiting for you?
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think it is closer to the truth to say that she hoped that she could do this. In the event, she was just too burned out to compete.
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