2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 410 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Sam-Skwantch said:
The flutz issue has been ongoing and will never go away. I don’t worry much about Flutz calls or lip calls. It doesn’t even factor into my feelings as a fan. That ship has sailed long ago so I let the flutz police handle it. Called or uncalled I don’t care. I think the penalties are overly harsh when called so if they miss a few I’m unaffected. Robin Hood syndrome ? If they call them it is what it is and I move on ;)

Zhenya’s loyal fans ought to have become accustomed to this relentless noise by now. There are some that pretty much obsess over edge calls and Lutz jump in general. Me...I’m like :handw:
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I know that‘s why I said I‘m not going to bother anymore. But I just felt like I needed to say that I‘m not against criticizing her (or any skater‘s) programs as long as it’s done with respect because that would be hypocrisy since I talked a lot about Alina‘s SP and not always favorably. :laugh:
 
moriel said:
This is not a workflow suitable for the russian team, basically, due to high competition (i mean, when was the last time Yuna or Javi had to worry about getting spots? When was the last time Hanyu had to worry about getting spots?). While this season is basically granted for Zhenya, next season it will not be. Russian girls cannot afford messing up in the beginning of the season to fill in choreo as they go, unfortunately.
I am actually pretty curious how Orser will adapt his workflow, and if he will, to such pressures as 1. Making the team and 2. Getting a spot. I am really unsure if he had ever worked in such a competitive environment.

EDIT: overall, i am majorly worried about Zhenya basically because her team seems to be entirely disregarding the intense national competition. We have seen how quickly russian ladies stop getting spots if they don't perform - see Tuktik after her killer season. She won everything, but since she was not winning anymore, rusfed gave the spots to whoever did better. At Olympics, judges didn't held up Zhenya either - they gave the medal to whoever performed better on that concrete day, regardless past wins. Yes, rusfed will give Zhenya a granted spot this season, if anything, to not make a fool of themselves and of TAT for supporting her coaching change. But then later?
We may not like it, but reputation is conted in into scores. Zhenya currently has a rep, but what will happen if she loses to Wakaba, for example? Will she keep getting high PCs if she spends half of the season "filling in choreo as they go" and struggling with jumps to only peak at nationals and worlds?
.
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While Javi and Yuzuru may not have had to fight it out for scarce international berths to the extent of Russian ladies, I'd like to reassure folks that the TCC team is familiar with the challenges of intense domestic competition and getting your skaters "out of the country" .

Ladies is not Canada's strongest discipline, but for that very reason the competition is incredibly fierce for very few international spots. TCC will ensure she peaks when she needs to. They've consistently got their lady out of the country when others were left behind.

But Brian is very careful with his skaters bodies, and Zhenya is healing. He clearly has put priority on health over an early start in training.

Zhenya has said, for her part, that even a day later to start training would have been too late.

I would say that Zhenya looked to be at the level of readiness, or a bit less, that we see when TCC skaters come to Minto, the monstrously large, end of July national series competition in Ottawa that kicks off the season in Canada. So, about a good month behind even TCC norms certainly.

The think that really struck me was that, even having blanked on the ice, she laughed with Brian and accepted the support of the crowd. That in itself speaks for a level of trust having been established.
 
moriel said:
This is not a workflow suitable for the russian team, basically, due to high competition (i mean, when was the last time Yuna or Javi had to worry about getting spots? When was the last time Hanyu had to worry about getting spots?). While this season is basically granted for Zhenya, next season it will not be. Russian girls cannot afford messing up in the beginning of the season to fill in choreo as they go, unfortunately.
I am actually pretty curious how Orser will adapt his workflow, and if he will, to such pressures as 1. Making the team and 2. Getting a spot. I am really unsure if he had ever worked in such a competitive environment.
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Orser had worked in such a competitive environment before, that was the state of Japanese Men during the Sochi quad. Whilst Patrick was No. 1 during that time, the rest of top men was pretty much filled with Japanese, with Hanyu, Takahashi, Oda, Machida, Kozuka all capable of getting on the podium at Worlds and GPF (and in fact has). During this period, Japan was getting 3 men in and sometimes even 4 into GPF each year. In other words 5 men fighting for 3 spots. Patrick even commented that he was glad he was not Japanese cause Japan men nationals was a complete bloodbath.

Before Hanyu went to Orser, he was third at nationals and placed bronze at Worlds. So there was a period of time where he can podium internationally, but his spot on the national team was anything but guaranteed. He moved to Orser because he knew he can't hover around third or fourth at nationals anymore, but needed to be firm No.1 by the time of the Olympics, and Orser was the one who guided him through that phase.

Obviously Zhenya's situation is a bit different to Sochi period Yuzu, but yes Orser has experience in taking skaters whose domestic competition is on par with or worse than international events.
 
All these people skeptical about Borser's work ethic... he's not stupid and it's not like Zhenya doesn't know about super juniors (she was literally working next to them until a few months ago). Honestly until we see how things turn out in the long run, it's too early to be fighting and trying to read people's minds. :scratch2:
 
el henry said:
:laugh2: at all the folks who are supposedly “worried” about Zhenya.

David Wilson’s choreo has carried many a skater to medals, with or without national competition (Yuzu has no national competition :shocked: I’m sure Shoma would love to hear that). I vastly prefer what David has done for Zhenya as opposed to skipping around the ice for no reason, open mouth miming and the other God awful moves Zhenya was given in the past. She is better than that, and David Wilson is recognizing it.

Will the programs be refined? Of course, I would expect nothing less for all these programs. Do I have any idea how it will be received by judges? Not really.

But Orser and Wilson don’t know what they are doing or how to support Zhenya?

:laugh:
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I expected great things from Wilson and Med's partnership. Her SP really exceeded many people's expectations and is a breath of fresh air (Wilson didn't even need to place a sound effect at the end of it ;)). Her tango has potential. I rather have an unfinished program at this point in the season that can be developed to something great. Doubters will doubt.

I think I read V/M mentioned in regards to music cuts a few pages back. Jennifer Swan choreographed a brilliant and innovative program. The B.ESP commentator even said that it is the best Carmen on ice he has ever seen when it premiered. Some choreographers should definitely use that program as inspiration.
 
Sometimes I wish I could say "Stop, Little Pot, stop" with all this Zhenya vs Alina situation (I would even call this hysteria, espesially in Russian media and sport forums). Do we really have enough popcorn to survive this season drama? :drama::popcorn:
Just wanted to wish good luck for both ladies and their coaches.
Let Alina be happy and healthy and gain more confidence. She has achieved a lot and still have lots of room for improvement and development.
Let Zhenya enjoy her new life, she has a unique chance to get all the best from two completely different but great figure skating coaching teams and combine it in her skating. And I am sure she won't miss it.

Super happy to see Liza and Polina doing well, fingers crossed for them.
If only Nastya Gubanova turned seniors this year! :(
 
Seruleane said:
Agreed, no fan wars! I like both, though prefer Alina a bit more. I would never want to see Evgenia fail or have a bad skate. I suspect most fans of either lady also likes the other, just to a lesser degree. Both girls/ladies had busy summers with lots of changes. Evgenia moved halfway across the world and had to adjust to a new coaching team. Alina was busy with lots of publicity after her OGM, taking care of a new dog-celebrity, and performing in Japan. Neither lady has made any excuses for their performances and it’s just a test skate. Let’s wish them the best and see what happens. Personally, I love that there is currently no clear front runner after 3 years of dominance by Medvedeva.
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Or folks can just ignore Evgenia/Alina and instead enjoy the more inspiring and engaging skating we're seeing from the three A's in Juniors. May the three stay together and continue to push each other for years to come, without ever becoming rivals.
 
DougDorsey said:
Or folks can just ignore Evgenia/Alina and instead enjoy the more inspiring and engaging skating we're seeing from the three A's in Juniors. May the three stay together and continue to push each other for years to come, without ever becoming rivals.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but these girls are rivals already. They are ffighting for medals and the top spot on the podium. This is sport and completely normal. Friends off ice and rivals on it. It remains to be seen how long they will be able to continue having this friendship. I‘m hoping for a long time but well, sometimes life takes unexpected turns.
 
moriel said:
This is not a workflow suitable for the russian team, basically, due to high competition (i mean, when was the last time Yuna or Javi had to worry about getting spots? When was the last time Hanyu had to worry about getting spots?). While this season is basically granted for Zhenya, next season it will not be. Russian girls cannot afford messing up in the beginning of the season to fill in choreo as they go, unfortunately.
I am actually pretty curious how Orser will adapt his workflow, and if he will, to such pressures as 1. Making the team and 2. Getting a spot. I am really unsure if he had ever worked in such a competitive environment.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you on that and I tried to say similar stuff in the test skates thread (with little support). It looks like people just happy that she is with Orser and will praize her no matter what she does. This reminds me the situation in competition threads a while ago but with a substantial twist: good skaters like So-Youn-Park perform: a waterfall of compliments. Medvedeva performs: a lot of critique.

But the reality is that next season Trusova, Kostornaya, and Scherbakova all may go senior. If they are on the right junior track this season (so far they are) they will enter with big TES and decent pcs. If Medvedeva wants to be in the team next season there is no "luxury" of long-term goals and slow improvements - she has to be a fierce competitor this season to preserve her reputation and her pcs cushion.

This season she, Alina, Maria, Polina, Liza, and may be Daria and even less likely Elena are contenders for the team spots. I agree that full meltdowns aside she will get it. Next season is a different beast. And Hanyu example that some profess is irrelevant. He was innovator pushing the boundaries at that time. Zhenya is an incumbent with the past quad tech so far.
 
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