2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[atsumiri]

you really that naive?
She doesn't owe you anything. She doesn't have to report to you or anyone also about her problems and health if she doesn't want to.

 

[MsLiinaLii]

Some people already claimed that I am Alena's hater but I really can't understand what 3A is she talking about if she can't jump even 2A properly. And NO it wasn't "accidental mistake", because she popped axel in warm-up too (AFAIK not even once).

I think her problems with 2A might be connected to the fact that she started training 3A more.

 

[Alex65]

Do not argue. Interview Alena (sorry, without translation). She is doing well.
https://fsrussia.ru/intervyu/3937-a...rave-viktoriya-vasileva-bronzovyj-prizer.html

 

[jajoana]

Am I the only person who thinks that discussing skaters' parents (especially mothers) is as disrespectful as discussing their bodies, nationalities and religion?

Let just thank them, that they brougt up such wonderful kids.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Am I the only person who thinks that discussing skaters' parents (especially mothers) is as disrespectful as discussing their bodies, nationalities and religion?

Let just thank them, that they brougt up such wonderful kids.

I agree. I hesitate to trust Eteri's comments about Yulia's mother, as I recall she said least than polite things about Sergei's mother too, so...

 

[colormyworld240]

I think I stated very clearly in my post that I thought Alina and Zhenya were pretty equal in the FS (hence why they got the exact same number of points) but I personally would have had Zhenya first. What exactly do you need to call me out for? For having an opinion? I‘ve said times and again that I‘m Alina‘s fan and think she is a wonderful Olympic Champion and deserves her win. Just because I think it was close and that it could have been either of them? I really don‘t like this discussion but I was just reacting to a post stating that Alina should have been a lot higher in the FS than she already was, which I politely disagree with. I think her GOEs should have been higher, especially on spins because she’s excellent at them. But her PCS also were too high so it‘s kind of negligent, her score was fine the way it was. I wasn‘t saying or even intending to say that Alina doesn‘t deserve her win because I simply do not think this way. It was close but she won fair and square. She is the Olympic Champion and nothing should nor will change this. So please don‘t try to twist my words in this direction, thank you.

You responded to a comment about scoring and you're free to give your opinion. However, this is a public forum so you can expect others to challenge your opinion, as you have theirs. You gave an argument about inflated PCS in regards to overall placement in a skate segment, but you ignored the whole other component, TES which is what was in my comment. No one is twisting your words. No one is questioning you being Alina's or anyone else's fan, it's not a fan war. It's a discussion of the topic at hand, you can read my comment again.

 

[Fluture]

Is she really sick? Because she wasn't talking about sickness in her interview. She said that it was accidental mistake. Mistake that repeated during next warm-up.

Well, you again chose to only focus on one small part of my comment that wasn‘t even the main point. The main point is and I‘ll ask that again: Do you really think that a skater who pops a jump more than once isn‘t able to jump said jump properly?

About your part: I don‘t know whether she was sick or not but she clearly didn‘t look fine. Whatever it was it‘s perfectly acceptable if she chose to keep it private. She doesn‘t owe us an explanation.

 

[Fluture]

You responded to a comment about scoring and you're free to give your opinion. However, this is a public forum so you can expect others to challenge your opinion, as you have theirs. You gave an argument about inflated PCS in regards to overall placement in a skate, but you ignored the whole other component, TES which is what was in my comment. No one is twisting your words. No one is questioning you being Alina's or anyone else's fan, it's not a fan war. It's a discussion of the topic at hand, you can read my comment again.

No, I did not ignore the other component. I clearly said I thought that she deserved more GOE on her elements, mainly spins because those are really a great quality of hers - well centered and great flexibility. However, I also thought that she was overscored in PCS. She improved a lot from last year and I‘m glad about that because it shows that she knows about her weaknesses despite the big scores and decides to work on them. However, I also said that this is irrelevant anyway because even if her PCS dropped, her GOEs should have been bigger so the score would have stayed pretty much the same anyway. You have to remember that we‘re talking about barely two points here. That‘s like... virtually nothing. Alina won, she won fair and square. I generally agree about the number of points she got but not in the way these points were distributed. That‘s all.

 

[chopinskate]

No, I did not ignore the other component. I clearly said I thought that she deserved more GOE on her elements, mainly spins because those are really a great quality of hers - well centered and great flexibility. However, I also thought that she was overscored in PCS. She improved a lot from last year and I‘m glad about that because it shows that she knows about her weaknesses despite the big scores and decides to work on them. However, I also said that this is irrelevant anyway because even if her PCS dropped, her GOEs should have been bigger so the score would have stayed pretty much the same anyway. You have to remember that we‘re talking about barely two points here. That‘s like... virtually nothing. Alina won, she won fair and square. I generally agree about the number of points she got but not in the way these points were distributed. That‘s all.

You responded to a comment about scoring and you're free to give your opinion. However, this is a public forum so you can expect others to challenge your opinion, as you have theirs. You gave an argument about inflated PCS in regards to overall placement in a skate segment, but you ignored the whole other component, TES which is what was in my comment. No one is twisting your words. No one is questioning you being Alina's or anyone else's fan, it's not a fan war. It's a discussion of the topic at hand, you can read my comment again.

Why don't the two of you just post your scores for them -- with justification -- and then go ahead with the discussion? Would be more useful than posting paragraphs.

For both segments, of course.

 

[colormyworld240]

No, I did not ignore the other component. I clearly said I thought that she deserved more GOE on her elements, mainly spins because those are really a great quality of hers - well centered and great flexibility. However, I also thought that she was overscored in PCS. She improved a lot from last year and I‘m glad about that because it shows that she knows about her weaknesses despite the big scores and decides to work on them. However, I also said that this is irrelevant anyway because even if her PCS dropped, her GOEs should have been bigger so the score would have stayed pretty much the same anyway. You have to remember that we‘re talking about barely two points here. That‘s like... virtually nothing. Alina won, she won fair and square. I generally agree about the number of points she got but not in the way these points were distributed. That‘s all.

Was not present in your original comment that I responded to. Look at tense. Point was: if you're going to talk about scoring relative to other skater, you have to also talk about the scoring of the other skater. And that is, both TES and PCS.

 

[Fluture]

Why don't the two of you just post your scores for them -- with justification -- and then go ahead with the discussion? Would be more useful than posting paragraphs.

For both segments, of course.

I‘m not going to judge every single element in Alina‘s FS now, sorry but I really don‘t have the time for that. I actually don‘t want to discuss this any longer because it‘s pretty irrelevant. Alina got the scores she got, she won rightfully and thankfully she is a dedicated girl and works and improves on her weakness despite already getting maxed out scores on one part - which is PCS and what I was talking about.

Was not present in your original comment that I responded to. Look at tense. Point was: if you're going to talk about scoring relative to other skater, you have to also talk about the scoring of the other skater. And that is, both TES and PCS.

No, I don‘t have to. I didn‘t say Alina was overscored in general, I just said her score and Evgenia‘s score were justified and they should have been as close as they were because they were both literally perfect that day. I was responding to a post that said Alina‘s score should have been much higher than Evgenia‘s which I disagreed with. You have to read that in context.

Then I added the part where I said I would have had Evgenia higher and as the winner had I been the one to judge (which I‘m thankfully not but professionals who know what they do) which I probably shouldn‘t have done since personal opinions aren‘t taken to well in this thread. Normally I stay with objectivity so this probably wasn‘t too smart as it can be used to start again a long discussion that is actually not necessary.

And why is this actually important? Alina won and nothing and nobody will ever change that. So what if I thought she should have got a differently distributed score? My original comment was mainly that she shouldn‘t have got an even higher score or that the difference between her and Evgenia shouldn’t have been bigger even if you took into consideration the TES factor. And as an argument I used PCS. Then you jumped at me with the TES argument again and I agreed with you that her GOE could have been higher but also thought her PCS should have been lower. Which results in practically the same score. I don’t know the exact difference, that’s true. But I also really do not want to spend time on exactly calculating it. Because overall, I’m fine with Alina’s score. It could have been distributed differently and it would have been more correct (in my eyes!) but the results probably would have stayed the same. And I say probably here because it was really close and I think it should have been as close as it was. That‘s all I wanted to say. So, with all respect I really don‘t see the point in this discussion to be quite honest.

 

[chopinskate]

I‘m not going to judge every single element in Alina‘s FS now, sorry but I really don‘t have the time for that. I actually don‘t want to discuss this any longer because it‘s pretty irrelevant. Alina got the scores she got, she won rightfully and thankfully she is a dedicated girl and works and improves on her weakness despite already getting maxed out scores on one part - which is PCS and what I was talking about.

*Sigh*, fine. I agree it didn't need to be rehashed as I implied in an earlier comment, but honestly, if you don't have the time for discussing it in a meaningful manner, perhaps (from both your parts) it would have been better to, well, simply not have dragged on with the discussion. The scoring system exists for your use as well as the judges'.

 

[[email protected]]

*Sigh*, fine. I agree it didn't need to be rehashed as I implied in an earlier comment, but honestly, if you don't have the time for discussing it in a meaningful manner, perhaps (from both your parts) it would have been better to, well, simply not have dragged on with the discussion. The scoring system exists for your use as well add the judges'.

In a vacuum with perfectly neutral scoring who wins? Who knows. Maybe it's even Osmond.

It was close by all means. I was there and I saw that both deserved it. Zhenya skated with all the passion - there was a true drama on the ice. Alina with a more difficult program (more TES) showed a breath-taking will and committment saving the combo. And their scores were close, very close....I just cannot agree with comments especially in this thread that with the neutral judging Osmond would have won. First of all, when was judging of Canadian skaters neutral? Second, in that particular competition Kaetlyn made mistakes to claim that she was objectively better than Alina and Zhenya.

 

[chopinskate]

^Osmond didn't deserve to take it IMO. Zagitova rightfully won. I don't particularly care about any of those three programs, but Zagitova still had the best one for me, and there was the statement with her loop combo that late in the program.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I hope Evgenia gets new dresses for the short and long. Maybe the nice Russian lady who made her Anna Karenina dresses can help out (Olga?)

Well they already accounced that she will get a new SP dress for Skate Canada so that is good because I did not like her SP dress at Autumn Classics. I also hope that they maybe darken the color of her FP dress to a darker more richer red to match the tango theme.


I also hope that they ditch David Wilson for next season. In my opinion Wilson has not created any good ladies program in a long time, the choreo he did for Evgenia's FP was the worst he ever created and not worth giving a Olympic silver medalist (I hope he is dedicated this season to fix the mess he created). I hope she either can go back working with Ilia Averbukh or even work with Shae Lynn Bourne or Jeffrey Buttle. They would also be good choices for her in my opinion.

 

[neusw]

Well they already accounced that she will get a new SP dress for Skate Canada so that is good because I did not like her SP dress at Autumn Classics. I also hope that they maybe darken the color of her FP dress to a darker more richer red to match the tango theme.


I also hope that they ditch David Wilson for next season. In my opinion Wilson has not created any good ladies program in a long time, the choreo he did for Evgenia's FP was the worst he ever created and not worth giving a Olympic silver medalist (I hope he is dedicated this season to fix the mess he created). I hope she either can go back working with Ilia Averbukh or even work with Shae Lynn Bourne or Jeffrey Buttle. They would also be good choices for her in my opinion.

The TSL guys ( sorry to quote them but they do occasionally have insider info) said that apparently multiple dresses were made, so presumably she already has other options to choose from.

 

[typeyournamehere]

Kind of funny how quickly it has derailed to several different "hate branches": OG results, Lipnitskaya's mother, now Kostornaya's axel.

Btw, if people would like to use the same scoring "scale" which was used at team championship in Japan where Medvedeva has scored 160, then under the same "scale" Zagitova would've scored 165 I believe. So what's the point of bringing this? Just because she received that score once at some meaningless competition, doesn't mean she should automatically receive this score everytime regardless of the actual skate.

It's also hilarious when people claim that someone like Kostornaya can't jump 2A at all, after her first ever mistake on it in competition. Giver, can you enlighten us plz, and show the ultimate 2A jumper in your opinion, who NEVER, i said, NEVER (and nothing less than that) ever failed it in competition?

 

[Fluture]

Well they already accounced that she will get a new SP dress for Skate Canada so that is good because I did not like her SP dress at Autumn Classics. I also hope that they maybe darken the color of her FP dress to a darker more richer red to match the tango theme.


I also hope that they ditch David Wilson for next season. In my opinion Wilson has not created any good ladies program in a long time, the choreo he did for Evgenia's FP was the worst he ever created and not worth giving a Olympic silver medalist (I hope he is dedicated this season to fix the mess he created). I hope she either can go back working with Ilia Averbukh or even work with Shae Lynn Bourne or Jeffrey Buttle. They would also be good choices for her in my opinion.

I agree about the FS dress. It seems a bit too bright for this darker and more mature theme. Overall, her dresses aren‘t too spectacular. Pretty, yes, but nothing compared to her former dresses. It‘s fine if she wants to try out new things, it‘s just a dress afterall but my personal favorite are still Olga (this woman is beyond talented to make almost every dress look fabulous!!) and the person who dresses the Korean girls. Does anyone know who he/she is? Because all the junior Korean girls I‘ve seen this season were wearing dresses that were just: :luv17: :luv17:

I have always preferred Averbukh‘s choreography. I won‘t deny it, I love programs with a story behind them, however tacky it might be. I‘m neutral towards Wilson. I really like the new SP and think it‘s more due to Zhenya not being comfortable skating to it yet than him creating a mess. But still, you can clearly see Sandra Bezic‘s work in this SP, too, so there‘s that... The FP is a result of lack of time + a new style for Zhenya. In my opinion it would have been a more strategically efficient choice to take a new SP but make the FP something she is comfortable skating to. Like, they could have easily made her Memory Exhibition into a program. Then she could have had the entire off-season to study how to move to a tango, how to really feel the music and rock next year with a mature, sensual tango. Now it‘s all kind of in a hurry and she has two programs she doesn‘t feel comfortable skating to yet. But her team will know better which choices are right for Zhenya. And she said she wants to try new things so I‘m sure she‘ll use a different choreographer some time. Maybe even next year since this is one of the most crucial ones with all the dominating juniors turning senior.

 

[neusw]

So this thread’s going to have a fun year, huh.

 

[katymay]

Zagitova's bad posture was really noticable in this program. I didn't realize how bad it was actually. Last year's programs hid her weaknesses to a great extent but thic Carmen actually highlights it. I also don't like the choreo but that's a personal taste..... But reputation.......

I don't think she normally has bad posture, it is just in this program she seems to be racing to keep up with the music and choreo, and powering it through. Another factor is that she is taller now, and there is an adjustment period for that.