2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[TGee]

It's entirely possible to have multiple reasons for wanting to change coaches/go to Canada. Evgenia is not a capricious girl - I'm sure she weighed all the different factors in her mind before she made a decision, and discussed it with her mother, etc. But haven't we covered this enough already?

Absolutely... and we don't want this thread to get shut down for getting bogged down in this (again).

 

[Fluture]

Lol isu finally gave an edge call for the Evgenia lutz. I think that might be the first edge call of her senior career

It isn‘t. I remember she got e calls before, though she had a fall or step out. I think the e for the second lutz is a clear message. She can get away with two flutzes but three are too much. I hope her team takes it out again. Two are more than enough for training purposes. Also maybe change the layout in the free. She has multiple loop combos, such as 3S-3Lo and 2A-3Lo. Would it pay off BV wise if she put in two 3Lo and two 3F instead of repeating 3T and 3F? But first and most importantly she needs to be clean, layout changes can come afterwards. Removing the second lutz could help her with that, I think.

 

[LiamForeman]

Hehe, and Medvedeva is the new Slutskaya: let's remember the 98/99 Season, where she missed a lot of important competition to come back stronger after that. :agree:

Wasn't Slutskaya pregnant that season, or was it Sokolova?!?! Someone is always rumored to be PG in the skating internet world! lol. Who could it be this season I wonder?

 

[Sugar Coated]

I’m not sold yet on her potential skating being better or that this change will permit her to remain competitive longer. It’s obviously not there yet but it may or may not improve with time. What concerns me is how out of breath she seemed after the short program. It may have been partly due to nerves but it makes me concerned that her off ice training is not sufficient. They should be able to do some sort of low impact training that keeps up her cardio, agility, plyometrics, etc. without aggravating injuries. I actually suspect the off ice training under Eteri has a lot to do with their groups success based on the videos I’ve seen.

I was happy to see that old spark and fight in her. To come back and skate strong after that SP, considering all of the pressure she was already under, was no easy task. I wish I knew Russian so I could have understood what TAT was saying in the commentating.

 

[IceBallerina]

Lol isu finally gave an edge call for the Evgenia lutz. I think that might be the first edge call of her senior career

It is actually the second edge call she’s ever received in her senior career. The first was at a challenger event last year.

 

[IceBallerina]

It isn‘t. I remember she got e calls before, though she had a fall or step out. I think the e for the second lutz is a clear message. She can get away with two flutzes but three are too much. I hope her team takes it out again. Two are more than enough for training purposes. Also maybe change the layout in the free. She has multiple loop combos, such as 3S-3Lo and 2A-3Lo. Would it pay off BV wise if she put in two 3Lo and two 3F instead of repeating 3T and 3F? But first and most importantly she needs to be clean, layout changes can come afterwards. Removing the second lutz could help her with that, I think.

She needs to let her back heal first. That’s why she still doesn’t have a layback spin in either program. Her loop combos look good in practice, but her individual ones look a little heavy. Loops put so much pressure on the hips and back.

 

[neusw]

Uhm, Zhenya may have got acceptable levels and GOE under the previous scoring, but she herself knew that her spins were not great. She said at least two years ago that is was an area that she wanted to improve.

But please, to see the issue, one needs to get beyond the idea that spins are principally a demonstration of flexibility.

Respectfully, I suggest that you look at the skating leg and the skating foot on the ice in her earlier videos. Also look at Alina and the the Juniors with Eteri.

They are wobbly in the upper body as they mature because the technique involves a very large circle to be drawn with the skating foot. This in turn means they are at greater risk getting off axis and of travelling.

It also puts more stress on the lower back.

And lastly, in the view of many it does not create as beautiful a silhouette.

Clearly, as with many other technical issues, Eteri has chosen a spin technique that can work well with a youthful physique. This is a strategic decision.

BUT let's not be surprised that it needs to be set aside with a mature female physique.

And let's also recognize that it isn't a classic Russian technique either.

We don't see the skating leg and foot of Russian Ladies from other schools at that weird angle.

Nor do we see skaters of Russian coaches abroad spinning that way.

Say whatever you want about your perceived shortcomings of Med’s technique, but please don’t conflate it with being a general feature of Eteri’s school or her coaching. Alina is one of the best spinners in senior ladies, Yulia might be one of the greatest spinners of all time, and all her current juniors and younger are fantastic spinners with the exception of Trusova, who is already vastly improved this season. And no, their excellent spins are not just because they are young and getting away with it. :sarcasm:

Saying that everyone she trains has poor technique on spins really negates your point, because it is patently untrue. Med’s spins are the *only* ones that look like what you described. Even her poorer spinners like Trusova have fantastic centering and tight spin radiuses. Each skater has their strengths and weaknesses. Just because her most prominent skater’s spins weren’t mindblowing doesn’t automatically mean Eteri can’t teach spins properly. If we judge every coach by their worst product for each element we will have no coaches left.

 

[ramed]

I was happy to see that old spark and fight in her. To come back and skate strong after that SP, considering all of the pressure she was already under, was no easy task. I wish I knew Russian so I could have understood what TAT was saying in the commentating.

You're lucky you don't understand Russian , at least as far as TAT commentating is concerned. Yagudin and Grishin on Channel One are a lot more tolerable without TAT than with her. Or Yolanda Chen paired with one of Russian ex-skaters (she's commentating on the Russian sports channel Match Arena). With all due respect to TAT as a coach, she's among the worst Russian-speaking FS commentators ever graced the earth. Uninformative, openly biased, lots of empty talk, can be pretty rude in her opinions. Someone please persuade Ted Barton to learn Russian and Match Arena channel to hire him on a permanent basis - he'd make a good pair with Yolanda Chen...

 

[ramed]

Folks, there's a separate thread for Med fans - can't we pay some attention to OTHER Russian gals?

 

[neusw]

Folks, there's a separate thread for Med fans - can't we pay some attention to OTHER Russian gals?

Thank you. Any update with Med just automatically sucks the life out of every thread. I’m super excited for next weekend! Phenomenal Russian Cup lineup and Alina at Helsinki!

 

[[email protected]]

Well, she was close to getting surgery on her foot last season because she kept training at 120% all the time. Maybe Eteri‘s strategy would have ensured her another season of dominance that‘s only rivaled by Alina but after that the juniors are coming up and she wouldn‘t be able to keep up with her Olympic technique and layout. And she‘d already had backpain last season and we all know how dangerous an injured back can be to a skater‘s career. Anna Pogorilaya and Polina Tsurskaya call to mind. I‘m not agreeing with everything her team does, some of the choices they make are pretty questionable to me. So, it‘s not that I‘m trying to protect Brian Orser at all costs here.

I‘m trying to be reasonable because I realise what her utter dominance the years before even meant. Has there ever been an athlete with such a consistency streak before? Who didn’t lose a single competition for 2 1/2 seasons? So, expecting her to go back to her 2017/18 status means expecting for her to be perfect again. Not make mistakes. I think her consistency was heavily dependent on Eteri’s full run through strategy but most importantly her mental strength because we’ve seen even Eteri skaters fail spectacularly. Maybe this method isn‘t working for Zhenya anymore. Her body might not be able to handle it same for her mind. Now she tries to change everything and come back stronger because she frankly doesn‘t have a chance otherwise. Staying with Eteri and maybe even coming back to her 2017/18 technique won‘t work next season. She was winning everything because there was nobody who could challenger her in TES and because she didn‘t make mistakes. But now Alina is surpassing her in TES, Rika Kihira and not to mention the juniors coming up next year. What she needs to stay relevant is a better technique than the rest of the field, better skating skills and so on. Consistency and also an improved layout. I‘m not even saying she‘ll necessarily get that under Orser. But under Eteri she‘d have been surpassed and forgotten for all the juniors that turn up. This can happen next year, too. But at least now she made a change and showed that she‘s willing to go back to the basics and improve from there. Will this work out? We‘ll see. Brian said his approach takes at least one year to work. It‘s a journey and it‘s not exactly an easy one but I‘m willing to wait.

She has another GP. I hope she wins it. Otherwise, I won't buy any long-term talks anymore. And what I think (just my guess after J. Brown's remark) is that everything is based on her own will of steel and very hard work. There is little that Orser is giving to her (or Borser). But even if they are on good terms with Eteri once again her coming back might not work unless she can master quads. The momentum of glory seems to be lost for good. There is a good business book on self-deception as the biggest impediment for executives. Talking now about Bejing 2022 is self-deception to me.

 

[[email protected]]

Lol isu finally gave an edge call for the Evgenia lutz. I think that might be the first edge call of her senior career

She had one e and multiple ! calls before. But calls or no calls did not matter then because she had 1 lutz in 2 programs while her only competition Osmond had no better technique and 2 lutzes. They matter now because she has 3 lutzes, the problem is not healed and she does have a lot of competition.

 

[[email protected]]

Medvedeva can rank as Orser's #1 most attacked student for moving to him. Hanyu was criticized but never was this crazy.
And I am not Russian so bear with me, why on earth do some Russians think she is going to change nationality just because she changed the training location to Canada?
This is beyond my comprehension.

I doubt that at least the latest comment on that here was made by a Russian. Hence, I would suggest to refrain from generalizations.

 

[TGee]

Say whatever you want about your perceived shortcomings of Med’s technique, but please don’t conflate it with being a general feature of Eteri’s school or her coaching. Alina is one of the best spinners in senior ladies, Yulia might be one of the greatest spinners of all time, and all her current juniors and younger are fantastic spinners with the exception of Trusova, who is already vastly improved this season. And no, their excellent spins are not just because they are young and getting away with it. :sarcasm:

Saying that everyone she trains has poor technique on spins really negates your point, because it is patently untrue. Med’s spins are the *only* ones that look like what you described. Even her poorer spinners like Trusova have fantastic centering and tight spin radiuses. Each skater has their strengths and weaknesses. Just because her most prominent skater’s spins weren’t mindblowing doesn’t automatically mean Eteri can’t teach spins properly. If we judge every coach by their worst product for each element we will have no coaches left.

As I said, please look at the skating foot rather than the torso.

I actually thought it was just Zhenya's issue, until I looked at the others last year. Seriously.

Clearly skaters aren't being scored on what their skating foot is doing as long as there is a spiral.

And yes, all of those skaters have great spins other than that, and the occasional travelling and wobbliness didn't get enough of a -GOE to have an overall impact.

But when the body matures, the centre of gravity changes and the back becomes more fragile.

Saying a technique won't be successful for a mature female form is not equal to saying 'bad technique'.

It's just saying that beyond a certain stage of development the cons outweigh the pros.

 

[[email protected]]

You're lucky you don't understand Russian , at least as far as TAT commentating is concerned. Yagudin and Grishin on Channel One are a lot more tolerable without TAT than with her. Or Yolanda Chen paired with one of Russian ex-skaters (she's commentating on the Russian sports channel Match Arena). With all due respect to TAT as a coach, she's among the worst Russian-speaking FS commentators ever graced the earth. Uninformative, openly biased, lots of empty talk, can be pretty rude in her opinions. Someone please persuade Ted Barton to learn Russian and Match Arena channel to hire him on a permanent basis - he'd make a good pair with Yolanda Chen...

Last year I watched a couple of times FS competitions with Yolanda Chen. I had to turn off the sound. She is the most incompetent commentator one can imagine. No matter how notorious TAT is she at least does not confuse jumps. Well, Chen was a long jumper like I was but I at least had 4 years of prior FS training. And this is a sport that does require some knowledge before you volunteer to comment it to thousands of people.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

You're lucky you don't understand Russian , at least as far as TAT commentating is concerned. Yagudin and Grishin on Channel One are a lot more tolerable without TAT than with her. Or Yolanda Chen paired with one of Russian ex-skaters (she's commentating on the Russian sports channel Match Arena). With all due respect to TAT as a coach, she's among the worst Russian-speaking FS commentators ever graced the earth. Uninformative, openly biased, lots of empty talk, can be pretty rude in her opinions. Someone please persuade Ted Barton to learn Russian and Match Arena channel to hire him on a permanent basis - he'd make a good pair with Yolanda Chen...

Isn’t Yulia basically like Ted Barton? Doesn’t talk during performances and pulls for all athletes regardless of nationality. Seems like she open pulls for Russians as a team but not at the expense of others. Too bad Telesport isn’t covering GP’s. I was so excited to hear her again

 

[Tolstoj]

Last year I watched a couple of times FS competitions with Yolanda Chen. I had to turn off the sound. She is the most incompetent commentator one can imagine. No matter how notorious TAT is she at least does not confuse jumps. Well, Chen was a long jumper like I was but I at least had 4 years of prior FS training. And this is a sport that does require some knowledge before you volunteer to comment it to thousands of people.

I find her commentary lovely, it's a bit Ted Barton style trying to be positive for every skater, though she tends to whisper things (she did it during Evgenia's FS) probably because she don't want to ruin the performance but if you have something to say, just say it or speak only at the end of the program.

It's funny when she confuses jumps cause most of the time it exposes lips and flutzes.

Is Elena Ilinykh the other girl helping Yolanda with the commentary at Match Arena? I think so.

Anyway, as limited as my knowledge of the russian language is, i do think TAT commentary is more informative.

It's a different kind of experience though: she's not afraid of criticizing or praising skaters out loud, she doesn't hide her bias, but she also knows that she is the most successful coach of all time, so she feels a star more than the performance itself (Yagudin is trying to contain that) which means it can be annoying if you are just trying to watch the programs.

 

[TGee]

Folks, there's a separate thread for Med fans - can't we pay some attention to OTHER Russian gals?

And those of us who wish to honestly assess her strengths and challenges need to be cautious how far we take it in a fan fest.

If Liza and Zhenya can't be discussed here, after a major event, then should we say to others to take their discussion of Alina off-line after Helsinki or should have shut down all the 'tiny boss' cheers for Trusova.

A great deal of time is spent on other Russian ladies here. Talking about those who've just completed a major event is normal.

Rehashing endlessly the 'why did Zhenya leave her long time coach' question is the problem.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Giving this thread a more positive note...

weekend recap:
Two medals at Skate Canada: Gold for Liza and bronze for Zhenya!
One medal at Golden Bear: Gold for Alena Kanysheva!

upcoming:
Grand Prix Finland: Alina, Stanislava, Daria!
NHK Trophy: Liza and Maria!
Stage IV: Trusova, Kostornaya, Gubanova, Vasilieva, Fomina, Tsibinova, Pogorilaya! Possibly Kromykh!

 

[neusw]

And those of us who wish to honestly assess her strengths and challenges need to be cautious how far we take it in a fan fest.

If Liza and Zhenya can't be discussed here, after a major event, then should we say to others to take their discussion of Alina off-line after Helsinki or should have shut down all the 'tiny boss' cheers for Trusova.

A great deal of time is spent on other Russian ladies here. Talking about those who've just completed a major event is normal.

Rehashing endlessly the 'why did Zhenya leave her long time coach' question is the problem.

There’s a big difference between objective post-competition discussions, looking at skaters’ progress, program changes, etc. then the endless bashing of one coach or another and how xyz of Med’s skating is so hopelessly degraded or so vastly improved to justify the coach bashing. This extreme and exaggerated narrative just perpetuates the fake drama and that is the exhausting part. If you want to continue rehashing all that then there’s already a thread on this forum for critically discussing her current season, no need to invade the fan fest.