2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Fluture]

I disagree a little bit that they don't need to worry about her: I'm a little concerned that we've got a pattern that at every less than perfect performance from her that she's crying in the arena - Worlds last year was understandable it was her first Worlds/competition after winning the Olympics and the whole whirlwind of winning the Olympics plus a legitimate bomb of a skate, but now we've also seen this at test skates (which at the end of the day are pretty meaningless even if she falls on every jump) and at this competition where she didn't perform perfectly in the short.

She was crying? I watched her skates and she seemed disappointed afterwards but it was nowhere near comparable to Worlds or Test skates. She‘s still very young and this season is much tougher for her than last one. Last year she was the one chasing the girl on the top, now she is the one being chased by everyone and she‘s got to learn how to deal with it. The pressure is enormous. But I believe she will be fine. It was just one competition where she made some mistakes and still got a score of 215 and a gold. She will be more confident as the season goes on. Last year‘s DQ was easier for her, she was familiar with the choreo and everything. Now she has two new programs. It‘s bound to be hard. But she‘s not doing badly by any means. She‘s still #1 in the world. We have to wait how Rika does at NHK but for now it looks like her top spot is safe.

 

[melgirl25]

She was crying? I watched her skates and she seemed disappointed afterwards but it was nowhere near comparable to Worlds or Test skates. She‘s still very young and this season is much tougher for her than last one. Last year she was the one chasing the girl on the top, now she is the one being chased by everyone and she‘s got to learn how to deal with it. The pressure is enormous. But I believe she will be fine. It was just one competition where she made some mistakes and still got a score of 215 and a gold. She will be more confident as the season goes on. Last year‘s DQ was easier for her, she was familiar with the choreo and everything. Now she has two new programs. It‘s bound to be hard. But she‘s not doing badly by any means. She‘s still #1 in the world. We have to wait how Rika does at NHK but for now it looks like her top spot is safe.

As Eteri said (in some doc), it is harder to be the top skater and maintaining that vs the one chasing the top.

 

[melgirl25]

Yeah, I get being disappointed that you didn't perform your best (and probably wanted to bounce back after the SP). But you still won by a country mile, and it's not like she had a ton of errors. She's human, yes, but she's the Olympic champ and she didn't have a terrible performance by any means.

I will say, this skate at least made the season SOMEWHAT interesting and not obviously a runaway every time she steps foot on the ice. And it's better to get this out of the way now. She's still the heavy fave though and will bounce back in her next event, I'm sure. I REALLY hope her program improves though - other than some neat jumps, it's just so sloppy and poorly choreographed. There are moments where she has nice details and good expression and other times that she looks so mechanical. It just doesn't look quite as effortless as when she did things last season, although it's still early and she can't be expected to nail it every time. She's gotta step it back up though, because Trusova's itching for that Russian title. She can do so much better.

I will be really interested to see how her programs compete against Satoko and even Evgenia in terms of PCS.

 

[Sugar Coated]

She was crying? I watched her skates and she seemed disappointed afterwards but it was nowhere near comparable to Worlds or Test skates. She‘s still very young and this season is much tougher for her than last one. Last year she was the one chasing the girl on the top, now she is the one being chased by everyone and she‘s got to learn how to deal with it. The pressure is enormous. But I believe she will be fine. It was just one competition where she made some mistakes and still got a score of 215 and a gold. She will be more confident as the season goes on. Last year‘s DQ was easier for her, she was familiar with the choreo and everything. Now she has two new programs. It‘s bound to be hard. But she‘s not doing badly by any means. She‘s still #1 in the world. We have to wait how Rika does at NHK but for now it looks like her top spot is safe.

To me it does look like she was crying and wiping her eyes in both K+C. I mean she’s a 16 year old girl, experiencing extreme pressure. I don’t have a problem with crying. But I am nervous that she is so hard on herself, that’s not going to help her long term.

But she also seemed very upset at the Cup of China last year as well as Worlds. And possibly another competition, I’ll have to go back and review. So I’m not sure that her recent reactions are that different than last year.

 

[Vlad Karigov]

In the russian nationals, Medvedeva is going to have an almost impossible challenge, because not only will she fight for her place in the World Cup, she will fight to show that she deserves that place. She will have to prove himself better than Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia; and we all know that it is not better than any of them, not even Kostornaia if it skates clean. On the other hand Konstantinova and Samodurova do not go with that pressure, and when Medvedeva fails, one of them 2 will accompany Zagitova and Tuktamysheva in the world championship.

 

[leoleo]

I wish i could borrow the crystal ball some of you guys seem to have in this thread to be making such predictions

 

[Seruleane]

To me it does look like she was crying and wiping her eyes in both K+C. I mean she’s a 16 year old girl, experiencing extreme pressure. I don’t have a problem with crying. But I am nervous that she is so hard on herself, that’s not going to help her long term.

But she also seemed very upset at the Cup of China last year as well as Worlds. And possibly another competition, I’ll have to go back and review. So I’m not sure that her recent reactions are that different than last year.

I think Alina feels a lot of pressure being Olympic Champion and thinks she has to prove she is deserving of the title. But here's the thing: she doesn't have to prove anything. She rightfully won OGM as she was better than everyone else that day, including Zhenya (who also had the skate of her life but alas it was not enough). Alina also had a fabulous season leading up to her Olympic victory. It is rightfully hers, and no one can take that away. Alina should never feel she has to prove anything to anyone. She already won the biggest title. Everything else she gets is icing on top. So please, Alina: don't put too much pressure on yourself. Skate for yourself, have confidence in yourself, and the rest will come. I believe 100% in you

 

[VenusHalley]

Didn't Kostornaia also have some crying in Kiss and Cry for winning with mistakes?

Could it have something to do with the training environment which requires nothing less than perfectly perfect perfection in each movement? Some seem to take it too close to their hearts.

 

[melgirl25]

In the russian nationals, Medvedeva is going to have an almost impossible challenge, because not only will she fight for her place in the World Cup, she will fight to show that she deserves that place. She will have to prove himself better than Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia; and we all know that it is not better than any of them, not even Kostornaia if it skates clean. On the other hand Konstantinova and Samodurova do not go with that pressure, and when Medvedeva fails, one of them 2 will accompany Zagitova and Tuktamysheva in the world championship.

I can't.

 

[Sugar Coated]

Big feds skaters already receive higher scores as it seems.

If you take spots from smaller feds, in few years, you can rename the worlds to "Ruso-japanese" competition and only two countries will watch. Not good for the sport.

I wouldn’t want to take spots from smaller feds but I do like the idea of having “wildcards.” Like the top five SB from anywhere can get a spot. Although maybe cap 2 per country.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Didn't Kostornaia also have some crying in Kiss and Cry for winning with mistakes?

Could it have something to do with the training environment which requires nothing less than perfectly perfect perfection in each movement? Some seem to take it too close to their hearts.

Think about the way we as fans tend to nitpick every detail about performances and events.....some of us almost obsess over them. The skaters do the same thing except it’s magnified because people tend to overinflated/dramatize their own experiences. Especially situations that happen in the public spotlight.

Teenage hormones just make it even more messy. I wouldn’t feel too confident about any speculation TBH about such things.

 

[Fluture]

In the russian nationals, Medvedeva is going to have an almost impossible challenge, because not only will she fight for her place in the World Cup, she will fight to show that she deserves that place. She will have to prove himself better than Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia; and we all know that it is not better than any of them, not even Kostornaia if it skates clean. On the other hand Konstantinova and Samodurova do not go with that pressure, and when Medvedeva fails, one of them 2 will accompany Zagitova and Tuktamysheva in the world championship.

Well, let‘s see whether or not ‘it‘ can prove ‘himself‘ and complete this almost impossible challenge....

Sorry. I couldn‘t get myself to write anything even remotely close to a more sensible answer. I‘ll just say one thing: Why not just wait at least until everyone‘s second GP is over before making predictions like that. Oh no, right, I forgot! Why do that if you can guarantee everything with absolute certainty after just a few competitions? If leoleo is finished with your crystal ball, I want to borrow it too.

 

[sweetice]

what's going to happen next season? there are literally too many Russian ladies in the top 24 SB so far...
Zagitova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Samodurova, Konstantinova, (Kanysheva), Tarakanova, Tarusina - that's already 10 that can do senior GP next season. Maria hasn't skated yet and if she or Polina or Leonova make it on the list, that would be up to 13. it would be so unfair if one of them had to only get 1 spot and someone behind them got 2 simply because they're from another country that doesn't do as well.

Well... there are still both Higuchi, Kostner, Choi, Karen Chen and Daleman out of that list.
Who knows what may happen along the season, even if the condition of them is not good right now.

I don't think we can also add Gracie Gold, but...

Anyway, it's a possibility. I get the argument, but it's not the same problem as the three cap at worlds and olympics, when everything was fine the year before. Nine skaters with two spots are already a lot for a single country, ten with only eight with two spots is not the end of the world. If they become eleven-twelve then yes, some changes is needed to the formula.

More than take away spots from the others, i'm in favor with adding another event and secure some other spots from the previous worlds. This season there was a single two weeks gap on the JGP series, if taken away they can fit the next calendar with another GP, matching the actual JGP series.
Then, the russian ladies spots may become 21. (10x2)+(1x1) or (9x2)+(3x1)

 

[atsumiri]

Didn't Kostornaia also have some crying in Kiss and Cry for winning with mistakes?

Could it have something to do with the training environment which requires nothing less than perfectly perfect perfection in each movement? Some seem to take it too close to their hearts.

really? :disagree:
More likely it have something to do with comments like yours. :sarcasm:

 

[alpaca]

In the russian nationals, Medvedeva is going to have an almost impossible challenge, because not only will she fight for her place in the World Cup, she will fight to show that she deserves that place. She will have to prove himself better than Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaia; and we all know that it is not better than any of them, not even Kostornaia if it skates clean. On the other hand Konstantinova and Samodurova do not go with that pressure, and when Medvedeva fails, one of them 2 will accompany Zagitova and Tuktamysheva in the world championship.

Ugh please, why do some people enjoy predicting failure of skaters whether it be Zhenya or Alina or whoever else? Less than perfect performance early in the season does not mean the skater's season or career is over in any way, especially for someone like Zhenya, whose first GP she had a massive mistake and numerous technical errors/points lost in both programs (plus choreo doesn't even seem to be finalized). The Eteri team debut each season with already basically finalized programs while Orser's team doesn't seem to follow that same approach. They are just different ways which can both sometimes lead to less than ideal outcomes but figure skating is unpredictable and that's just how it is sometimes. I think it's fair to say in the first seasons when Zhenya dominated, I didn't expect another skater like Kaetlyn Osmond to be able to keep up for a whole quad yet she still got bronze at the Olympics with a very high score and became world champion. Yuzuru through this last quad has been challenged immensely by younger skaters like Nathan Chen with five or six quads (which gives him BV that arguably even someone like Yuzuru might have trouble keeping up with), and while sometimes he loses, it didn't stop him from becoming double Olympic champion. Granted, the Russian juniors have jumps like quads that Zhenya or Alina might not have, but that's not a great reason to count them out in the next seasons to come. Figure skating is much more than just the jumping part and honestly I don't know what good it does to anybody to have pessimistic outlooks on really amazing and beautiful skaters.

 

[Fluture]

really? :disagree:
More likely it have something to do with comments like yours. :sarcasm:

It‘s actually not wrong at all, though. I don‘t think it‘s even related to Eteri in particular but the general situation in Russia for a female figure skater. They know you have to be perfect all the time or else somebody will come and take your spot away from you. They have been raised like this this, trained in this cut-throat environment, all of them. It is like that if a country has like 10 skaters that could medal at the (Junior) World Championships. They know the pressure but it‘s still hard as they are - at the end of the day and no matter how tough - only young girls. Figure skating is their life. I don‘t think a Daria Panenkova has trained less than a Alina Zagitova for example. They have both sacrificed a lot for this sport, yet one of them is completely unknown other than among skating fans, the other one is the Olympic Champion. It‘s cruel but that‘s the way it is. Of course they won‘t just shrug off a bad competition, it takes time to learn how to cope with situations like that. I think the way they react is normal and understandable. They are human beings after all, not some jumping robots. But they are dedicated and tough and determined and they love their sport that‘s why next time they give it their everything to be better.

It will be more than interesting to see Shcherbakova, Kostornaya and Trusova compete against each other next week. It’s the first fight before the final showdown in December. Good luck to all of them.

 

[colormyworld240]

Didn't Kostornaia also have some crying in Kiss and Cry for winning with mistakes?

Could it have something to do with the training environment which requires nothing less than perfectly perfect perfection in each movement? Some seem to take it too close to their hearts.

I think it has more to do with individual than the entire group. Alina has always been upset after bad performances, and is quite emotional when she doesn't do well. It's been like that for her at major comps like these, and also at small national comps even before anybody saw any potential in her. Like she said, it's not about winning or scores just she wants to perform to the best of her ability and when she doesn't, she's upset regardless of how many points she wins by.

On the other hand, Anna and Sasha, while they aren't pleased with mistakes, seem to be able to just walk it off.

The only similarity between all of the Russians (not just Eteri's girls) is that they know there's a lot of competition in the country and they don't have the luxury of having a few bad skates when there are others hungry for a spot. But that's the nature of figure skating in Russia.

 

[hanyuufan5]

Crying despite winning doesn't necessarily mean anything bad. I used to very nearly cry if I got a 93% on a test when I knew I could have gotten a 98% or a 100% if only I had remembered X or studied Y harder. If being a perfectionistic teenager were a recipe for disaster, I'd have been in big trouble.

For a lot of people, no matter how high the stakes (like a big international competition) or how low the stakes (a boring high school class where no one but you and the teacher ever know your grades), there are few if any worse feelings than losing to yourself, regardless of whether or not you win against everyone else.

She'll probably feel better about it once the, "I could have done so much better, so why didn't I!?" wears off, and try that much harder the next time.

As Fluture said, they're young girls in an extraordinarily tough environment. They should be forgiven for showing that sometimes. It's also still pretty early in the season. They're still ironing out the kinks of their performances, as probably all skaters in any discipline still are.

 

[Vlad Karigov]

It seems that many fans did not understand my words, I never said that Medvedeva was inferior to Konstantinova and Somodurova; I said that the pressure was too much for her, and that was why she was going to lose.

It is something very simple, in the russian nationals Medvedeva will fight for a place in the world cup, will fight to prove that she still wants to be russian, will fight against her former "friends", will fight to show that she still has a future in 2019, her technician will be the only foreigner in a competition full of Russians who do not like americans very much; and the worst, it will not be anyone's favorite, all russians will want to see Zagitova and Trusova win, if they do not just support Trusova.

And on the other side we have Samodurova and Konstantinova who do not have any pressure ... and that considering if Medvedeva participates in the nationals, because if she does not qualify for the grand prix final, she is very likely to request a rest time as they did some canadian skaters this season.

 

[TGee]

It‘s actually not wrong at all, though. I don‘t think it‘s even related to Eteri in particular but the general situation in Russia for a female figure skater. They know you have to be perfect all the time or else somebody will come and take your spot away from you. They have been raised like this this, trained in this cut-throat environment, all of them. It is like that if a country has like 10 skaters that could medal at the (Junior) World Championships. They know the pressure but it‘s still hard as they are - at the end of the day and no matter how tough - only young girls. Figure skating is their life. I don‘t think a Daria Panenkova has trained less than a Alina Zagitova for example. They have both sacrificed a lot for this sport, yet one of them is completely unknown other than among skating fans, the other one is the Olympic Champion. It‘s cruel but that‘s the way it is. Of course they won‘t just shrug off a bad competition, it takes time to learn how to cope with situations like that. I think the way they react is normal and understandable. They are human beings after all, not some jumping robots. But they are dedicated and tough and determined and they love their sport that‘s why next time they give it their everything to be better.

It will be more than interesting to see Shcherbakova, Kostornaya and Trusova compete against each other next week. It’s the first fight before the final showdown in December. Good luck to all of them.

On TSN during Skate Canada, they showed clips of Liza Tuktamysheva winning the event at 14..her first GP title.

And they discussed how she says that as a young champion skater just coming into seniors she didn't know the nerves or to fear...she 'didn't know'...

But having had setbacks and struggles through growth and maturity, it's very different.

Alina has experienced struggling at Worlds, Zhenya's experienced the risks and challenges of too much newness.

Zhenya says that the memory of being in 7th after the SP at SCI will stay with her always... but so will coming back from that to win the FS and take the bronze.

Alina doesn't seem to have yet had the 'I can fight back' moment that has been transformational for Liza and Zhenya.