2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[melgirl25]

You will lose. Even at her power peak she got ! all the time. Eteri team was smart to have just 1 lutz in 2 programs. I have not received a reasonable explanation why Orser (Borser) team introduced 3 lutzes without any visible edge improvements. Looks like masochism to me. May be they will come to their senses and change the layout. I was glad to see that Zhenya returned her signature move to the free program.

She has improved her lutz edge in practice (as per Brian). However no matter how many you do in practice, if you can't do them in competition when it counts, well nothing will change. Competition nerves and old muscle memory make her revert to her old technique. I am hoping they at least take one out of her layout.

 

[[email protected]]

OK, Rusnats tickets are for sale now. I bought good seats for a reasonable price for all events.

Live reports will be in Russian Nationals forum unless there will be dedicated threads in the Edge. I think, it make sense because of the specific meaning of Ladies competition: for the first (and may be the last) time we shall see Zagitova, Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Trusova, Kostornaya, and Scherbakova competing with one another. 3 top seniors against 3 top juniors. This will be epic!

 

[moriel]

Ok, it was not clear to me because of "after rusnats".

after rusnats, i meant = when we know the results
should have expressed myself in a more clear way =D

 

[Amei]

OK, Rusnats tickets are for sale now. I bought good seats for a reasonable price for all events.

Live reports will be in Russian Nationals forum unless there will be dedicated threads in the Edge. I think, it make sense because of the specific meaning of Ladies competition: for the first (and may be the last) time we shall see Zagitova, Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Trusova, Kostornaya, and Scherbakova competing with one another. 3 top seniors against 3 top juniors. This will be epic!

Tarankova as well

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Tarankova as well

With Plushy too .... that will be cool.

 

[alpaca]

I will have to say that the judging at Helsinki especially for the ladies was mixed and left me feeling not in a great way. Although Kaori's SP was not great and had quite an uphill battle afterwards for a podium finish, her FP was by far the most enjoyable, coherent, and well executed program of the ladies in the FS and I was disappointed in the lack of acknowledgment of that with the 6 point gap between her and Alina. I loved Alina as a skater last season and still think that she is incredible but I think through no fault of her own, the programs do absolutely no justice (with horrible music cuts in SP to add on top). I understand her standing as OGM gives her advantages in things like PCS, but I have to say, aside from the difficult transitions, the GOE on the jumps were incredibly generous. It's interesting because Zhenya's scores so far this season are much lower than Alina's (also due to now choreographic differences and other issues like growth spurts, technique) but in terms of personal/skating improvement, Zhenya seems to have improved much, much more as opposed to last season in comparison to how Alina seems to be compared to last season. I think in Konstantinova was judged extremely generously here at Helsinki. I'm very curious as to how they will all be judged at a same competition... In my opinion, there's more harm done in the long term in not being judged fairly at competition. Despite the short term benefits of medalling, when the time comes that one is no longer the judge favorite, the harsh reality of the situation could come back to hit skaters in the face, and without the proper corrections beforehand, the skater is left completely vulnerable and in an extremely unfortunate situation. I think this probably similar to that of what Orser thinks for Zhenya with long term plans, and I do hope that they succeed (whatever success for Zhenya and her team may be) and maybe this will change the win-everything no matter what it takes approach a little bit that seems to be much more dominant in Russia as of now.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I will have to say that the judging at Helsinki especially for the ladies was mixed and left me feeling not in a great way..

I find it best to go in with little expectations of great judging. It’s like traffic. I never expect it to be smooth so I don’t have any reason to be disappointed or angry over poor drivers and crowded streets. I’ve just learned to enjoy the show that both situations provide.

I wouldn’t worry much about Stasya. She’s had her share of poor scores/performances. I think she’ll figure out how to move forward. No one really knows how good her chances are but the important thing for her is to just realize that she does have a chance and do everything she can do be in the best position possible. Whatever that may be. It’s only her second GP event in her young career. I thought she was pretty impressive.

 

[IceBallerina]

In all honesty I enjoyed the JGP more than I have enjoyed the senior GP as of now. I have been working a lot and not keeping up as much as usual, but any news? Will Alena attempt the 3a this weekend? Will Sasha land a quint?

 

[melgirl25]

I will have to say that the judging at Helsinki especially for the ladies was mixed and left me feeling not in a great way. Although Kaori's SP was not great and had quite an uphill battle afterwards for a podium finish, her FP was by far the most enjoyable, coherent, and well executed program of the ladies in the FS and I was disappointed in the lack of acknowledgment of that with the 6 point gap between her and Alina. I loved Alina as a skater last season and still think that she is incredible but I think through no fault of her own, the programs do absolutely no justice (with horrible music cuts in SP to add on top). I understand her standing as OGM gives her advantages in things like PCS, but I have to say, aside from the difficult transitions, the GOE on the jumps were incredibly generous. It's interesting because Zhenya's scores so far this season are much lower than Alina's (also due to now choreographic differences and other issues like growth spurts, technique) but in terms of personal/skating improvement, Zhenya seems to have improved much, much more as opposed to last season in comparison to how Alina seems to be compared to last season. I think in Konstantinova was judged extremely generously here at Helsinki. I'm very curious as to how they will all be judged at a same competition... In my opinion, there's more harm done in the long term in not being judged fairly at competition. Despite the short term benefits of medalling, when the time comes that one is no longer the judge favorite, the harsh reality of the situation could come back to hit skaters in the face, and without the proper corrections beforehand, the skater is left completely vulnerable and in an extremely unfortunate situation. I think this probably similar to that of what Orser thinks for Zhenya with long term plans, and I do hope that they succeed (whatever success for Zhenya and her team may be) and maybe this will change the win-everything no matter what it takes approach a little bit that seems to be much more dominant in Russia as of now.

My hope for Evgenia is that she is able to surpass Alina's PCS scores this season if and when they compete against each other. Do you think that is possible?

 

[LynsJ]

I'm a fan of Alina and zhenya but I have to say that zhenya for me has the edge visually this season. I love jumps with a bit more muscle and stronger, longer landings. I feel Alina was overmarked in the free at Helsinki. Kaoris free was a dream but after that sp there was no way the judges were going to give her the win unfortunately. Anyway I hope all the Russian girls skate well at their next gp's. What a competition it would be if we had zhenya, Alina and Liza all in top form!

 

[atsumiri]

My hope for Evgenia is that she is able to surpass Alina's PCS scores this season if and when they compete against each other. Do you think that is possible?

with such programs? no way.

 

[Azikin]

As I said many times, I don't buy long-term Bejing argument.

My guess is that Russian ladies who will want to go to Beijing will at least have to be able to jump lutz.. and maybe even better than tripple..

 

[Fluture]

with such programs? no way.

She‘s gradually adding traditions throughout the season. My guess is that by nationals her programs will look way different than they do now. The themes are fine, just different from what she usually does so she has to get a feeling and get used to them. And there have to be more transitions. I think she will get there.

What I‘m not sure about is whether she can actually surpass Alina in PCS. She is the Olympic Champion, her PCS will probably be out of reach for anyone barring a disaster. So, unless Alina has a Worlds moment (which is very unlikely tbh) her PCS will be the highest of the bunch at Nationals and all the other events.

 

[moriel]

She‘s gradually adding traditions throughout the season. My guess is that by nationals her programs will look way different than they do now. The themes are fine, just different from what she usually does so she has to get a feeling and get used to them. And there have to be more transitions. I think she will get there.

What I‘m not sure about is whether she can actually surpass Alina in PCS. She is the Olympic Champion, her PCS will probably be out of reach for anyone barring a disaster. So, unless Alina has a Worlds moment (which is very unlikely tbh) her PCS will be the highest of the bunch at Nationals and all the other events.

I would say still no way this season.
Her programs are not just different from what she is used to, her programs are generic. Not made for her, not tailored to showcase her strengths and hide her weaknesses.
Maybe next year, but this year - debatable.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

So Gubannova is looking good in practice but up against an impossible challenge ... no one is predicting Masha will podium and many put her outside of top 6.......Anna is held back to Juniors at 4th Cup of Russia while the rest of 3A compete as seniors......speaking of 3A, Liza is going to attempt to 3A her way to the top of yet another podium and I think she’ll do it. Will Tiny Boss do any quads and can Alena erase some doubt she cast at her last event?

Should be a fun week

 

[melgirl25]

"She is the Olympic Champion, her PCS will probably be out of reach for anyone barring a disaster."

I keep hearing this comment from people about her Olympic status and I am curious...

Is PCS something that is judged competition to competition or is it based on previous accolades?

I think Zhenya has a chance but agree that there need to be more transitions. That is the one thing (in PCS) that I think Alina has over Zhenya.

Skating Skills, Performance and Interpretation to Music are Zhenya's strength and should get higher as season progresses.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

"She is the Olympic Champion, her PCS will probably be out of reach for anyone barring a disaster."

I keep hearing this comment from people about her Olympic status and I am curious...

Is PCS something that is judged competition to competition or is it based on previous accolades?

I think Zhenya has a chance but agree that there need to be more transitions. That is the one thing (in PCS) that I think Alina has over Zhenya.

Skating Skills, Performance and Interpretation to Music are Zhenya's strength and should get higher as season progresses.

I always thought Zhenya had crisp skating skills. I think that’s the biggest thing missing in this new style she’s chasing. She used to be so light and fast. The focus now is elsewhere it seems.

I think she can catch Alina with a rock solid performance. She’s no longer the judges favorite she once was so her room for error has gone down.

I don’t think Alina’s PCS is related to being Olympic Champion as much as I think it’s her ability to deliver very difficult programs at a high level.

 

[moriel]

"She is the Olympic Champion, her PCS will probably be out of reach for anyone barring a disaster."

I keep hearing this comment from people about her Olympic status and I am curious...

Is PCS something that is judged competition to competition or is it based on previous accolades?

I think Zhenya has a chance but agree that there need to be more transitions. That is the one thing (in PCS) that I think Alina has over Zhenya.

Skating Skills, Performance and Interpretation to Music are Zhenya's strength and should get higher as season progresses.

In theory, PCs are supposed to be judged based on each specific performance.
In practice, the following factors can influence the PCs:
- warm up (if a skater skates early in the competition, judges may hold on the PCs scores)
- consistency (if a skater always skates well, that tends to result in a PCs increase over time)
- TES (if a skater has high TES, the PCs will follow)
- national status (the #1 in a country will get propped more)
- other status and reputation stuff (OGM, World Champion, simply winning most competitions)

As for Zhenya specifically, i'd say this year, Performance and Interpretation to music are not her strengths, due to the poor choice of programs. It is specially visible in the SP, where she looks like a nerdy girl trying to pull out an Ashley Wagner. Her SS are not really that superior to Alina's either - people may say Alina is meh, but she has enough skills to pull out all that transitions. Also, for a SS comparison, i'd suggest watching that japanese show where both Alina and Zhenya had to skate through an "obstacle range". Since both girls are doing nearly same thing, you can compare the SS quite well.

But that is not a thing really, since in practice, judges simply give the same score for all categories.
This season, Zhenya's main issues are:
- She is not russia #1 anymore, and it is unclear if she is even russian's #2 (after all, Tuktik beat her in Canada).
- Last season, she skipped worlds and did not win an OGM, so she lost a lot of her status and reputation. Her early competitions did not help either - she ended last year as "way ahead of all competition except for Alina", and this year, she is the bronze GP medalist. She is not outstanding anymore, she is just yet another top lady, and the judges may score her accordingly.
- Her TES dropped a lot. Her Lz gets called consistently, there are no impressive difficult entries and exits (compare with Trusova's quad from cantilever, and Alina's jumps from Charlotte).

 

[atsumiri]

Skating Skills, Performance and Interpretation to Music are Zhenya's strength and should get higher as season progresses.

don't agree. but even in this case. her programs don't show it. Her programs look like showcase of her weaknesses.

 

[Tulipstar]

So Gubannova is looking good in practice but up against an impossible challenge ... no one is predicting Masha will podium and many put her outside of top 6.......Anna is held back to Juniors at 4th Cup of Russia while the rest of 3A compete as seniors......speaking of 3A, Liza is going to attempt to 3A her way to the top of yet another podium and I think she’ll do it. Will Tiny Boss do any quads and can Alena erase some doubt she cast at her last event?

Should be a fun week

Never a dull moment with these ladies.