2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Spirals for Miles]

In addition to Panenkova, Sakhanovich, and Tarusina competing at the challenger portion of Inge Solar Memorial, Viktoria Vasilieva has been assigned to juniors, and Sofia Samodelkina and Elizaveta Berestovskaya to advanced novices

 

[Ziotic]

Evgenia’s new programs are so much more pleasing to me then what she was working with before. As the season goes on and the nuances added I think they will be dynamite. Her flow and speed looks so much more powerful and coming from the core as opposed to relying on swinging limbs to complete movements.

In contrast the programs provide to Alina this season are atrocious, she really deserves so much more. Most of the choreography has little relation to the music and is more a series of movements. I’d like to believe Alina could showcase emotional attachment to music the way other skaters can but perhaps that’s not in her skill set and they use these overdone programs to hide that fact.

Liza could absolutely use a more seasoned choreographer who can constantly alter/change/add elements as she grows into the program. Although she gives good face and commits to the theme, the SS need to come up a level. I would love to see some development in the areas between the elements most definitively.

 

[atsumiri]

Same old same old...

 

[leilaraj]

Does anyone know why Scherbakova is competing as a junior at the 4th stage of cup of Russia while trusova and kostornaia as seniors?

 

[katymay]

In theory, PCs are supposed to be judged based on each specific performance.
In practice, the following factors can influence the PCs:
- warm up (if a skater skates early in the competition, judges may hold on the PCs scores)
- consistency (if a skater always skates well, that tends to result in a PCs increase over time)
- TES (if a skater has high TES, the PCs will follow)
- national status (the #1 in a country will get propped more)
- other status and reputation stuff (OGM, World Champion, simply winning most competitions)

As for Zhenya specifically, i'd say this year, Performance and Interpretation to music are not her strengths, due to the poor choice of programs. It is specially visible in the SP, where she looks like a nerdy girl trying to pull out an Ashley Wagner. Her SS are not really that superior to Alina's either - people may say Alina is meh, but she has enough skills to pull out all that transitions. Also, for a SS comparison, i'd suggest watching that japanese show where both Alina and Zhenya had to skate through an "obstacle range". Since both girls are doing nearly same thing, you can compare the SS quite well.

But that is not a thing really, since in practice, judges simply give the same score for all categories.
This season, Zhenya's main issues are:
- She is not russia #1 anymore, and it is unclear if she is even russian's #2 (after all, Tuktik beat her in Canada).
- Last season, she skipped worlds and did not win an OGM, so she lost a lot of her status and reputation. Her early competitions did not help either - she ended last year as "way ahead of all competition except for Alina", and this year, she is the bronze GP medalist. She is not outstanding anymore, she is just yet another top lady, and the judges may score her accordingly.
- Her TES dropped a lot. Her Lz gets called consistently, there are no impressive difficult entries and exits (compare with Trusova's quad from cantilever, and Alina's jumps from Charlotte).

I would add that a few intangibles feed into PC's: Such as: recycling a program, 'playing it safe' vs. going for the riskier jumps.(jumps which the skater can do, that is-like having a triple axel, but leaving it out) Neither thing should matter, but I think they do.
If only Zhenya had enlisted a better choreographer-Shae Lyn Bourne for example. A really interesting program would have compensated a great deal for what is missing in TES.

 

[IndiaP12]

Does anyone know why Scherbakova is competing as a junior at the 4th stage of cup of Russia while trusova and kostornaia as seniors?

Because she already won gold as senior in the second event, and has qualified for the final. She already qualified to Nationals through JGP. So she doesn’t really need this event while Kostornaya and Trusova do. She’s probably using it as a practice before JGPF

 

[leilaraj]

Thank you @IndiaP12

 

[IndiaP12]

In theory, PCs are supposed to be judged based on each specific performance.
In practice, the following factors can influence the PCs:
- warm up (if a skater skates early in the competition, judges may hold on the PCs scores)
- consistency (if a skater always skates well, that tends to result in a PCs increase over time)
- TES (if a skater has high TES, the PCs will follow)
- national status (the #1 in a country will get propped more)
- other status and reputation stuff (OGM, World Champion, simply winning most competitions)

As for Zhenya specifically, i'd say this year, Performance and Interpretation to music are not her strengths, due to the poor choice of programs. It is specially visible in the SP, where she looks like a nerdy girl trying to pull out an Ashley Wagner. Her SS are not really that superior to Alina's either - people may say Alina is meh, but she has enough skills to pull out all that transitions. Also, for a SS comparison, i'd suggest watching that japanese show where both Alina and Zhenya had to skate through an "obstacle range". Since both girls are doing nearly same thing, you can compare the SS quite well.

But that is not a thing really, since in practice, judges simply give the same score for all categories.
This season, Zhenya's main issues are:
- She is not russia #1 anymore, and it is unclear if she is even russian's #2 (after all, Tuktik beat her in Canada).
- Last season, she skipped worlds and did not win an OGM, so she lost a lot of her status and reputation. Her early competitions did not help either - she ended last year as "way ahead of all competition except for Alina", and this year, she is the bronze GP medalist. She is not outstanding anymore, she is just yet another top lady, and the judges may score her accordingly.
- Her TES dropped a lot. Her Lz gets called consistently, there are no impressive difficult entries and exits (compare with Trusova's quad from cantilever, and Alina's jumps from Charlotte).

Yes, very true. I’m getting sick and tired of people going on about how Alina doesn’t deserve her scores. Because when you read all this, she really does. Going a little off topic - but Alina’s best ISU scores are 82+ in SP and 158+ in FS, so considering her scores at Helsinki were 14 lower in the SP with one pop and 12 lower in the FS with just two underrotations, her scores are perfectly acceptable.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Because she already won gold as senior in the second event, and has qualified for the final. She already qualified to Nationals through JGP. So she doesn’t really need this event while Kostornaya and Trusova do. She’s probably using it as a practice before JGPF

Well Kostornaya and Trusova don't need it either. I saw in her fan thread from j00mla that they try not to have three skaters from the same school in one event, so they switched her down.

 

[Elucidus]

Because she already won gold as senior in the second event, and has qualified for the final. She already qualified to Nationals through JGP. So she doesn’t really need this event while Kostornaya and Trusova do. She’s probably using it as a practice before JGPF

Still they could put her in senior category again but choose not to. It doesn't explain this. Also, I can't find Tarakanova entry there. Does that mean Tarakanova is not qualified for RusNat? 0_0

 

[moriel]

I would add that a few intangibles feed into PC's: Such as: recycling a program, 'playing it safe' vs. going for the riskier jumps.(jumps which the skater can do, that is-like having a triple axel, but leaving it out) Neither thing should matter, but I think they do.
If only Zhenya had enlisted a better choreographer-Shae Lyn Bourne for example. A really interesting program would have compensated a great deal for what is missing in TES.

Zhenya's program is not bad choreo.
Zhenya is good, and choreo is good, but it just does not work together. She doesnt have the sass and sexyness to pull out her short - the program would work better for someone like Liza or Sofia or Ashley, who are more "naturally" sassy, while Zhenya seems to be more of a good girl, and doesn't have much sassy skating experience. This shows, specially considering the short time they had to prepare and train the programs.
Her tango is not bad by itself - but it lacks tango, sharpness, sexyness. Again, it makes her look like a good girl trying to do sexy. It can be cute, but its not "mature adult skating".

Id say that for this season, her FS may actually work with more practice, because hitting the tango in an acceptable way (you just got to do all the choreo things matching musical accents and work a bit on the movements so it doesn't look lyrical) is easier than being genuinely sassy in SP.

My main complain about the choreographer is that i miss the Eteri approach, where Eteri and Daniil try to choreograph a program tailored for that specific skater, to highlight strenghts and hide weaknesses. It does not always works (hard to do it with dozens of programs every year), but most of the programs somewhat succeed in that, even if they are not masterpieces. Zhenya's new choreo fails in this regard - it is just some generic choreo that could have been given to any skater. It does not look like it was made specifically for Zhenya, to make her look great in it.

 

[Seruleane]

Evgenia’s new programs are so much more pleasing to me then what she was working with before. As the season goes on and the nuances added I think they will be dynamite. Her flow and speed looks so much more powerful and coming from the core as opposed to relying on swinging limbs to complete movements.

In contrast the programs provide to Alina this season are atrocious, she really deserves so much more. Most of the choreography has little relation to the music and is more a series of movements. I’d like to believe Alina could showcase emotional attachment to music the way other skaters can but perhaps that’s not in her skill set and they use these overdone programs to hide that fact.

Liza could absolutely use a more seasoned choreographer who can constantly alter/change/add elements as she grows into the program. Although she gives good face and commits to the theme, the SS need to come up a level. I would love to see some development in the areas between the elements most definitively.

Please provide examples of where Alina's choreography has little relation to the music. Or maybe it is just a matter of opinion. For ex, I find her POTO to be perfectly choreographed. The step sequence to Think of Me is appropriately feminine, graceful and balletic. Her spin sequence to the music box theme is appropriately ethereal like a dancer in a music box. Her jumps hit the highlights of the music. The number of songs used is a bit jarring but that doesn't mean it's not choreographed well. Also, the choreography for her Carmen, if anything is too literal as some others have said. She does the exact movements we would expect of the music. There are no surprises or inventive movements. That's why I prefer her POTO. But I would hardly call her choreo atrocious.

 

[lavoix]

Zagitova definitely has good programs, in general most ladies from Tutberidze have good programs, probably the most interesting out of the women's skating.

Can't say the same about Evghenia's current programs, though it's a new style, it will grow on us.

I agree with what people said about Evghenia's SP, she doesn't portray a sassy/sexy/naughty character on the ice. Maybe in time, but not now.

 

[Fluture]

Zhenya's program is not bad choreo.
Zhenya is good, and choreo is good, but it just does not work together. She doesnt have the sass and sexyness to pull out her short - the program would work better for someone like Liza or Sofia or Ashley, who are more "naturally" sassy, while Zhenya seems to be more of a good girl, and doesn't have much sassy skating experience. This shows, specially considering the short time they had to prepare and train the programs.
Her tango is not bad by itself - but it lacks tango, sharpness, sexyness. Again, it makes her look like a good girl trying to do sexy. It can be cute, but its not "mature adult skating".

Id say that for this season, her FS may actually work with more practice, because hitting the tango in an acceptable way (you just got to do all the choreo things matching musical accents and work a bit on the movements so it doesn't look lyrical) is easier than being genuinely sassy in SP.

My main complain about the choreographer is that i miss the Eteri approach, where Eteri and Daniil try to choreograph a program tailored for that specific skater, to highlight strenghts and hide weaknesses. It does not always works (hard to do it with dozens of programs every year), but most of the programs somewhat succeed in that, even if they are not masterpieces. Zhenya's new choreo fails in this regard - it is just some generic choreo that could have been given to any skater. It does not look like it was made specifically for Zhenya, to make her look great in it.

You know, I can actually understand this. Absolutely. Honestly, I’m Zhenya‘s fan but even I preferred her Averbukh programs simply because she was excelling at doing them - she has a talent to tell a story through a program. They were dramatic and emotional and touched me in a very special way. Her new ones are good. They are nice programs. I like them. But it‘s not something that makes me feel the story with her while she skates. Even though she‘s definitely my favourite skater and I will always support her, I had kind of mixed feelings about her programs this season. But then I thought about it again and realised something. It‘s just what I experienced and I can totally accept if you are unhappy with her programs or think they make her weaknesses show. Because they do. They are two completely new styles and Zhenya is just not used at all to interpreting them. All she knows is „dramatic“ and “cute“ - Her competitive programs being the former, Sailor Moon the latter. How would she know how to do a tango or a sexy jazz program? She doesn’t. So naturally, these programs seem like they don‘t fit her. It’s something admirable, though, isn’t it? At least for me. Going for something you totally know isn’t your strength, you have never done before and have the confidence to show it on a big stage. That‘s what I find brave about her. She wants new experiences - her whole move and change of training, her new haircut and the new programs make it obvious, they aren‘t what “the Evgenia Medvedeva“ used to be like and I think she wants to emphasize this. Kind of a new chapter in her life. Just sometimes happens that you need that. And she’s going at it with full speed. She isn‘t afraid to work on things she might have problems with initially. I think her programs can still grow, get better. They have potential. Zhenya has potential. Like you said, she is good, the programs are good she just doesn‘t know how to pull them off (yet).

I still think they could (and probably should) have left either the jazz/tango program for next season and done one that is closer to her usual style. It would have given her more time to get into the character of the new style better. Now she has two completely new styles - and that‘s exactly where it gets complicated. And to top that off she had less time to prepare and work than her competitors, mainly Alina who sadly seems to always be one step ahead of her this season.

It’s her decision, though. I accept that because I’m her fan. Not everyone is and that‘s okay. I can understand why they‘re annoyed about her programs then. Zhenya at the moment just isn‘t excelling at them like she used to do with her old programs. It can make it look like she regressed. I think she didn’t. I think it‘s just what automatically happens when you leave your comfort zone and move on to something new. It‘s the normal process of learning something. You can‘t be good at everything right from the beginning. I find it brave and courageous and personally, I applaud her for doing it. I think she can improve and will definitely do it. There were already a lot of visible changes from ACI to SCI. By how much, however? That we will see, but in the end she at least had the guts to go for it.

I think however, that by next season her program will be suited more for her. This season was just marked by a lack of time. It will be interesting to see what they do but I’m sure Brian‘s team and her will make sure her new programs will blow everyone away because that‘s what she needs if she wants to survive the “envasion of the quad girls“.

Just my two cents on this topic. You don‘t have to agree with it and I won‘t force my opinion on anyone. Just providing something to think about maybe and discuss.

 

[Ziotic]

Zagitova definitely has good programs, in general most ladies from Tutberidze have good programs, probably the most interesting out of the women's skating.

Can't say the same about Evghenia's current programs, though it's a new style, it will grow on us.

I agree with what people said about Evghenia's SP, she doesn't portray a sassy/sexy/naughty character on the ice. Maybe in time, but not now.

To quote atsurimi
“Same old, same old”

Those who think Eteri skaters have good programs will never change their point of view because those suit their tastes.

No thank you, I will stick to watching quality skating skills from artistic women. Not girls would can’t do crossovers.

 

[moriel]

I think this season Zhenya suffers from the combo "lack of time" + "entirely new team".
To make good programs for a skater, you got to know this skater for some time. Next season, her programs will be surely better.

I just wish that they played a bit safer this year - for example, an Eteri style SP and her current SP as gala. This would enable her to focus more on training the new style, and then showcase it better next year. Maybe she wanted a "whole new style", and I understand it, but it is not a reasonable decision imho.

 

[moriel]

To quote atsurimi
“Same old, same old”

Those who think Eteri skaters have good programs will never change their point of view because those suit their tastes.

No thank you, I will stick to watching quality skating skills from artistic women. Not girls would can’t do crossovers.

For me, ability to do crossovers is irrelevant, since this move is repeated very few times in programs i like. I dont care about crossovers, because i dont want to see any of them, good or bad.
As for skating skills in general, I would like a detailed analysis please, with videos / gifs. Because, for example, while watching the japanese "obstacle" thingy, it was obvious that Alina's skating skills are miles ahead of Zhenya's skating skills, for example. Please illustrate.

When people talk about skating skills without explaining, I always remember that user on russian forums that was bashing Alina's skating skills. Then, someone made a gif of the feet, and that user went on a whole rant of how terrible the skating skills. Turns out the feet belonged to Kostner.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I think it's fine to like Zhenya. It's fine to like Alina. It's fine to like both. It's fine to like neither

 

[Tolstoj]

Liza could absolutely use a more seasoned choreographer who can constantly alter/change/add elements as she grows into the program. Although she gives good face and commits to the theme, the SS need to come up a level. I would love to see some development in the areas between the elements most definitively.

It's not much about the choreographer or Liza, but Mishin, which is both good and bad.

Good because at least he sent her to great choreographers like David Wilson, Lambiel, Richaud and Misha Ge, not just the famous ones (it's often true the opposite, he wants new faces), so she has the chance to work with all these people as opposed to skaters like Zagitova who may never have the chance to work with a different choreographer that is not Eteri Tutberidze - Daniil Gleichengauz.

This season i think they called Adam Solya, the same choreographer who made Loena Hendrickx programs.

The problem is that Mishin is more in search of ideas, and not exactly programs, so he let them do the programs, and then in a matter of months i think him and Tatiana Prokofieva rework these programs and often simplify the choreography, based on what's the form of the skater.

I also don't like the fact that he doesn't include these choreographers in ISU pages, but it seems he treats them well at least, TSL posted an interview with Benoit Richaud, he praised Mishin a lot.

https://youtu.be/-PXgGprlBCY?t=1173

 

[Jeanie19]

I think it's fine to like Zhenya. It's fine to like Alina. It's fine to like both. It's fine to like neither

And you can argue until you are blue in the face and it is not going to change anyone's opinion. You like who you like.