2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[klutzy]

Yeah, I keep thinking Gracie should have done the Polina Edmonds route--start with low-level summer competitions--deliberately mark the jumps as you get the routines down and get back into shape. Unfortunately, she wasn't well enough to do her full routines, but Polina got through her token GP assignment with a decent short and placed eighth--not great, but also not the very bottom of the pack for the season. Then, when Nationals rolled around, she knew where she was and put on a nice little short for the hometown crowd.

Not what she wanted, but also not traumatizing, if it's the last time she skates competitively at least she looked good doing it.

I suppose Gracie had so much natural talent that she didn't have to build up by increments the way a less-talented, but more determined, skater would.

 

[skylark]

Gosh I don't blame her for keeping it underwraps especially with first alternative Wagner sniffing around the Olympic village all ready to go at a moments notice.

That's an unfair characterization of Ashley Wagner. Why do you have to be mean about it? You weren't inside her head and have no idea of her motivations and feelings.

As a matter of fact, Ashley has said that being at the Olympics was very hard on her emotionally. As anyone who thinks twice would know. But she kept her commitments.

 

[Casual]

While I agree with what you said about falling off the horse, that doesn’t mean Nats - which is as high stress an event as Rostelecom- is the appropriate place to do it; starting with a club competition and shows this spring might serve her better. I hope she’s getting good guidance.

Whatever gives her better motivation. Since any competition at this point will be about getting back and using it as training ground, she should pick the ones which will help the most.

Sometimes it's useful to overcome the greatest stress and fear, and just jump right in it. More often, it's better to go slow and cautious, one toe at a time. Hopefully, she'll pick the route and pace that's best for her.

 

[skylark]

Sometimes it's useful to overcome the greatest stress and fear, and just jump right in it. More often, it's better to go slow and cautious, one toe at a time. Hopefully, she'll pick the route and pace that's best for her.

I think Gracie was saying she's more the type who jumps right in ... when she talked about wanting to start with a high-stakes comp like RC. From what I've observed of her ... of course what do I know, I'm just guessing ... I think she might continue to jump right in, go for it. Unless she's getting strong advice from a therapist or someone else that it wouldn't be wise at this time. I'm torn as to what I'd like to see her do, .... it's truly up to her ... but I will say I think it's inspiring to see her follow her own heart and let other people's expectations fall where they may.

 

[Casual]

That's an unfair characterization of Ashley Wagner. Why do you have to be mean about it? You weren't inside her head and have no idea of her motivations and feelings.

As a matter of fact, Ashley has said that being at the Olympics was very hard on her emotionally. As anyone who thinks twice would know. But she kept her commitments.

Well, the above characterization ("sniffing around Olympic village"/ready to sub at a moment's notice) might not be quite fair to Ashley Wagner, but I think it described Mirai's motivations (in keeping her injury secret) pretty well.

After all, not only Mirai was bypassed in favor of Ashley during 2014 Olympics - Mirai seemed slightly at risk of being bypassed once again in 2018, (at least judging by the amount of politicking, and public media manipulation, that Ashley engaged in after bombing at Nationals and losing her "certain" Olympic spot).

Around the time of Olympic team announcements, I remember some public noises about "Bradie is of course untouchable, due to gold, but Mirai and Karen are not, because Ashley is the face of the U.S. ladies FS".

No wonder Mirai kept her own council about her injury.

(And with Ross Miner losing his spot, despite a spectacular win at Nationals - who could blame Mirai for fearing she'd also be dropped as a hot potato and replaced with the Fed's darling, if she gave them any excuse?)

 

[Moxiejan]

If Ashley truly had been “the Fed’s darling,” she would have been on the team instead of Karen.

 

[Casual]

If Ashley truly had been “the Fed’s darling,” she would have been on the team instead of Karen.

That's like saying "if RusFed had been truly powerful, Rika Kihira wouldn't have won GPF".

Sometimes no amount of politicking can trump the actuality.

 

[Ice Dance]

The fed couldn't select Ashley over Karen. Karen bested Ashley in three major criteria, and Ashley only bested Karen at SC and a small club competition. The judges at Nationals had the power to put Ashley over Karen, but the fed didn't. They could have set different criteria; but once they set it, there was next to no judgement call between these two athletes. Ironically, Ashley lost to Karen based on criteria that most people would have expected to benefit Ashley over Karen.

 

[rlopen]

That's like saying "if RusFed had been truly powerful, Rika Kihira wouldn't have won GPF".

Sometimes no amount of politicking can trump the actuality.

Ugh how many times do we have to go over this? Karen got 7.42 points more in PCS combined in the SP and FS at 2018 Nationals than she did at 2017 Worlds, her best ever international competition. Ashley got .03 less PCS at 2018 Nationals than she did at 2017 Skate Canada. The difference between the two total's score was 2.4 points.

This proves politicking on the judges part at 2018 Nationals. If Ashley received the same amount of PCS inflation, (or if Karen did not receive such a substantial PCS inflation), Ashley would have been 3rd and Karen would have been 4th and Ashley would have gone to the Olympics.

So, try as you might to change the actual situation, Ashley was noticeably buried in PCS relative to everyone else because she did not receive inflation while Karen received a huge amount of inflation. USFSA judges at Nationals politicked to get Karen over Ashley at the Olympics. (Quite frankly, neither really deserved a spot at the Olympics as they really were not that good the whole season, but based on what they put out that night and on actual international PCS scores and not USFSA PCS inflation, Ashley should have placed over Karen.)

 

[rlopen]

Ashley was barely ever "the Fed's darling." When she finally started to solidify herself as the American #1, Gracie Gold started being hyped up and favored in terms of Ashley. Then, Karen became "the Fed's darling" after Gracie's problems post-2016 Worlds. Ashley has almost never been loved and adored, but more like tolerated...and she's the one who won the silver medal at worlds. I'm not even a big Ashley fan (I was mortified when Ashley was given the Olympic spot over Mirai), but she's been given WAY too much flak and criticism by so many figure skating fans whereas other skaters (no, I'm not talking about Gracie) have been continually coddled by figure skating fans.

 

[skylark]

Well, the above characterization ("sniffing around Olympic village"/ready to sub at a moment's notice) might not be quite fair to Ashley Wagner, but I think it described Mirai's motivations (in keeping her injury secret) pretty well.

I don't agree with you about Mirai's motivation either, although neither of us can know for sure what she was thinking. However, when Ashley had an injury before 2016 Worlds and was still suffering pain from it during the competition, she kept quiet about it. Afterwards, she said that she hadn't wanted that to be "her story," the thing the media would repeat over and over. I am too bleary-eyed to go back and read what exactly Mirai said about the Olympics, but I think what she said was very similar. That, to me, would be plenty of motivation for keeping quiet.

 

[bobbob]

Ashley's thinking about Nationals? Huh? What did I miss...

She's probably not trained at all so it wouldn't be the greatest idea. But then we have Karen and even moreso Gracie, so she wouldn't be the only one.

 

[andromache]

I bet one million dollars that we will NOT see Ashley competing at Nationals.

This (nice and inspiring) Instagram post https://www.instagram.com/p/BrDgzhkAkrp/ makes it pretty clear that Ashley is not training at a competitive level.

 

[skylark]

Here's Ashley's new blog.

https://www.theashwagner.com/

 

[Casual]

Ugh how many times do we have to go over this? Karen got 7.42 points more in PCS combined in the SP and FS at 2018 Nationals than she did at 2017 Worlds, her best ever international competition. Ashley got .03 less PCS at 2018 Nationals than she did at 2017 Skate Canada. The difference between the two total's score was 2.4 points.

This proves politicking on the judges part at 2018 Nationals. If Ashley received the same amount of PCS inflation, (or if Karen did not receive such a substantial PCS inflation), Ashley would have been 3rd and Karen would have been 4th and Ashley would have gone to the Olympics.

So, try as you might to change the actual situation, Ashley was noticeably buried in PCS relative to everyone else because she did not receive inflation while Karen received a huge amount of inflation. USFSA judges at Nationals politicked to get Karen over Ashley at the Olympics. (Quite frankly, neither really deserved a spot at the Olympics as they really were not that good the whole season, but based on what they put out that night and on actual international PCS scores and not USFSA PCS inflation, Ashley should have placed over Karen.)

If Ashley's only hope of beating Karen was getting inflated PCS at Nationals, then she did not deserve to go to the Olympics.

While I'm not a judge and can't argue the finer points of TES and PCS, it seemed to my casual eyes that all the ladies who medaled at Nationals skated ways better than Ashley. Cleaner, prettier, more exciting, fresher.

She was objectively worse; also, she was the past, while Karen was the future. And yet, there was a noticeable publicity push about possibly choosing Ashley over silver & bronze medalists, regardless.

 

[Casual]

Ashley was barely ever "the Fed's darling." When she finally started to solidify herself as the American #1, Gracie Gold started being hyped up and favored in terms of Ashley. Then, Karen became "the Fed's darling" after Gracie's problems post-2016 Worlds. Ashley has almost never been loved and adored, but more like tolerated...and she's the one who won the silver medal at worlds. I'm not even a big Ashley fan (I was mortified when Ashley was given the Olympic spot over Mirai), but she's been given WAY too much flak and criticism by so many figure skating fans whereas other skaters (no, I'm not talking about Gracie) have been continually coddled by figure skating fans.

I think the reason fans don't coddle Ashley is her iron-clad certainty that she's never at fault, and never inflated, and always awesome, and deserves others to be pushed aside for her sake (at least that's the impression I got from her in 2014 and 2018). Compare that to Adam Rippon - at least he was smart enough to look uncomfortable and a bit bashful in Ross Miner controversy (he wasn't truly, but at least he didn't come across as a total jerk).

 

[bobbob]

If Ashley's only hope of beating Karen was getting inflated PCS at Nationals, then she did not deserve to go to the Olympics.

While I'm not a judge and can't argue the finer points of TES and PCS, it seemed to my casual eyes that all the ladies who medaled at Nationals skated ways better than Ashley. Cleaner, prettier, more exciting, fresher.

She was objectively worse; also, she was the past, while Karen was the future. And yet, there was a noticeable publicity push about possibly choosing Ashley over silver & bronze medalists, regardless.

I think you should switch the two names in your first sentence... Karen needed (and got) inflated PCS to beat Ashley, Ashley needed just the same PCS she got internationally.

I do agree from an untrained eye it may appear that others may have skated more "clean". But from a certified international ISU judge perspective Ashley was a clear third or maybe even higher at nationals. Again I think it serves no one well that Nationals judges seem to try to pick to "hottest" skater on that day instead of who really has the strongest prospects (and they do this by basing PCS on one day performance/execution, versus the other categories).

Karen is the future? She's not looking too hot right now...

 

[Nimyue]

Here's Ashley's new blog.

https://www.theashwagner.com/

Her blog makes it pretty clear to me that she's basically retiring. Which is sad for fans but not unexpected. I hope she keeps skating shows at least so we can still see her perform.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think Gracie was saying she's more the type who jumps right in ... when she talked about wanting to start with a high-stakes comp like RC. From what I've observed of her ... of course what do I know, I'm just guessing ... I think she might continue to jump right in, go for it. Unless she's getting strong advice from a therapist or someone else that it wouldn't be wise at this time. I'm torn as to what I'd like to see her do, .... it's truly up to her ... but I will say I think it's inspiring to see her follow her own heart and let other people's expectations fall where they may.

That's fine but if she wasn't Gracie Gold she couldn't just jump in - she would have started at the bottom and had to been patient. She would just get RC. We all are armchair coaches and analysts lol. My opinion which isn't worth much I realize is that I want her safe, happy and to look after herself regardless of what skating may bring or not bring. I don't agree with Gracie's approach but it's her life.

 

[skylark]

I think you should switch the two names in your first sentence... Karen needed (and got) inflated PCS to beat Ashley, Ashley needed just the same PCS she got internationally.

I do agree from an untrained eye it may appear that others may have skated more "clean". But from a certified international ISU judge perspective Ashley was a clear third or maybe even higher at nationals. Again I think it serves no one well that Nationals judges seem to try to pick to "hottest" skater on that day instead of who really has the strongest prospects (and they do this by basing PCS on one day performance/execution, versus the other categories).