2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[withwings]

I hope some people will finally realize that Eteri's methods are not for no reason--they clearly work.

Evgenia needs to regain her muscle memory. Explan to Brian Orser that she cannot change her jump content every single competition. This may take a long time, I hope she can do it.

Eteri's goal is to get medals and nothing else and, certainly, then whatever is done is calculated in order to achieve this goal. Brian's, goal is neither fame or medals, but a skater itself; he works on opening skater's potentials, not framing them in one particular frame. Of course, it takes time and courage. Not everyone is capable to do this.
And Evgenia's mother has her say, too.

 

[SkateSkates]

Does anyone have a link to the ladies press conference?

 

[neusw]

Eteri's goal is to get medals and nothing else and, certainly, then whatever is done is calculated in order to achieve this goal. Brian's, goal is neither fame or medals, but a skater itself; he works on opening skater's potentials, not framing them in one particular frame. Of course, it takes time and courage. Not everyone is capable to do this.
And Evgenia's mother has her say, too.

Funny, I wasn’t aware that skaters didn’t care about medals. Every gold medalist I’ve seen sure looks like they’re having a lot more fun than whoever was in 10th. Paging Michelle, Sasha, Mao, Nancy, and everyone else who stuck around for a chance at Olympic gold. It sure is a terrible thing that all the little kids who are learning to skate have the goal of winning the Olympics.

FYI, it is perfectly possible to appreciate one coach without bashing another. Saying that Brian doesn’t care about medals for his skaters is hilarious. I’m sure he felt great about not winning Olympic gold, and I’m sure he was perfectly thrilled when Javi Zayaked his way out of a bronze. Hey, still the same excellent skater, right? Who cares about skating within the rules of the sport? Results don’t matter

There isn’t a single coach in the world who doesn’t care about winning competitions. If they didn’t no parents would send their kids to them. In order to win you need to produce high quality skaters. Both coaches have been able to bring out the extraordinary potential in their skaters, just in different aspects of skating. There’s no need to diminish either of their accomplishments.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

About Zhenya - ok, she switched coaches, but can someone please explain why it is necessary to change jump technique? She won almost everything, lost gold medal by a thread at the Olympics - so obviously her old technique got record scores. Why change it?

Do you think this is something psychological?

Because she first of all had a flutz, and bad jump technique in general, the only way it "worked" was that she got massively propped with scores

 

[DaNiCG]

About Zhenya - ok, she switched coaches, but can someone please explain why it is necessary to change jump technique? She won almost everything, lost gold medal by a thread at the Olympics - so obviously her old technique got record scores. Why change it?

Do you think this is something psychological?

Did you miss the part where her old technique was causing her injures? Her old technique only works with small bodies and rely on muscling the jumps. They wont work in a grown woman

 

[Vandevska]

Because she first of all had a flutz, and bad jump technique in general, the only way it "worked" was that she got massively propped with scores

Don't be like this, it's not like all of those times she only won because of her high scores..

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Don't be like this, it's not like all of those times she only won because of her high scores..

I mean no, I phrased it poorly, she was also highly consistent and landed basically every jump in competition, but her jumps like her flutz got ignored and even rewarded. I think she was certainly overscored, but I don't think she would've been off the podium, or even second if she would've actually been called on her "bad" jumps

 

[EdRoz]

Eteri's goal is to get medals and nothing else and, certainly, then whatever is done is calculated in order to achieve this goal. Brian's, goal is neither fame or medals, but a skater itself; he works on opening skater's potentials, not framing them in one particular frame. Of course, it takes time and courage. Not everyone is capable to do this.
And Evgenia's mother has her say, too.

When I read this post I cried , because I saw the Brian world of Elves, all happy, I wanna be a part of this world..
but then I woke up and became sad, the real world around

 

[Fluture]

I must agree with this, Alina's PCS was unfair. She was so underscored, I would have given her straight 10's for that performance! She skated like the true queen she is

Alina is 16. I‘m her fan and she‘s great but she‘s so so far from being perfect to get straight 10‘s for performance. There is SO much she can still learn. I never agreed with the high scores Zhenya got either btw. In performance I maybe could agree on 10‘s for a few skates where she really brought the house down but her SS were never that great and while improved now still need a lot of work to get a perfect mark of 10. Zhenya should have won and I never (or very seldomly at least) doubted a win by her but the margin was usually too big. And yes, she‘s my favourite skater and I‘m still saying that.

I‘m sorry if I‘m ranting right now but it just doesn‘t make sense to give such high PCS to skaters who haven‘t maxed out their potential yet. Alina is great but 10 on everything in performance would mean there is NO way she could improve, no way she could emote better. Yes, she‘s good but that good? Imo? No, not at all. I don‘t know why it‘s a bad thing to consider a skater could improve some things or still has some flaws. Alina has some very, very obvious flaws. Like everybody does and it‘s absolutely normal and would be strange if it was otherwise. What makes her great isn‘t that she has no flaws but rather that she recognizes them, works on them and tries to get better. PCS were her weakness last season despite the scores suggesting otherwise. (Doesn’t go for Alina only either. Jumps like lutz, axel and the toe in the combo were Zhenya’s weakness last season which the scores didn’t reflect, either, so don’t call me out on being biased ) She improved but still has a long way to go. And that‘s great because we‘ll see more progress from her.

And btw, I don‘t even hope for Zhenya to make the Worlds team. It would do her no good. If she has a great skate, maybe euros team because there’s not much competition there and she wouldn’t be in danger of losing spots for her country but in no way should she go to worlds. It wouldn‘t be good for her either, she needs time and some competitions where she can get the feel for her programs in an environment that is competitive but not insanely so like Nationals or Worlds. Send her to Universiade and some minor events. Let her rest and heal (she still has backpain, her injury seems to be a lot more serious than we knew. There were videos of her saying to Brian in training at Nationals “back hurts“ and she had pain relief patches under her dress today) and get consistent with ONE layout and her programs. Constantly changing layout won‘t do her any good and probably will be the biggest problem tomorrow, too. Reaction wise she looked like Canada in the SP, not France where she was totally down and sad. That would reassure me for the FS but well... she had her usual layout there in Canada. Now she has two new combos and that‘s what I fear will get to her. That‘s why I say: give her the months to train until Universiade (which I think are three) and then send her (and Masha!!) there while Alina, Liza and Sofia go to Worlds.

And while I prefer Stasya’s skating and programs to Sofia’s... Let the latter go to Worlds. She deserves it so much and it would be a crime to rob her of that chance.

 

[Fluture]

I mean no, I phrased it poorly, she was also highly consistent and landed basically every jump in competition, but her jumps like her flutz got ignored and even rewarded. I think she was certainly overscored, but I don't think she would've been off the podium, or even second if she would've actually been called on her "bad" jumps

I think Zhenya‘s wins were justifiable and more than correct most of the time. It was just the margin that had people surprised and annoyed. She got scores that suggested she was unbeatable and for some time she was. Until she suddenly wasn‘t anymore. In retrospective, I don‘t think that did her any good. If you always win, of course you‘re confident and sure of yourself. It gets to your head eventually. That‘s not meaning Zhenya is arrogant, she isn‘t at all. It‘s just a normal reaction. And that‘s why I think the Olympic season was particularly devastating for her. Because it suddenly seemed like the lifelong dream of Olympic Gold that everyone had been telling her would be a cakewalk for her was suddenly in question and then, all of a sudden, lost completely. No matter how hard you try to focus on one step only (which I really think she did) it does sneak into your brain if everyone in the media is telling you you‘ll be OGM. Losing after so many years of winning only is very, very hard and getting used to the fact that losing is a part of life and being an athlete is much harder. She‘s in the middle of that challenge right and honestly, she‘s doing better than I thought she would. I don‘t know what she‘s doing right now or how she‘s feeling but after the SP she wasn‘t crying or breaking down completely but rather realistic and reasonable and happy because of the support she got. I hope one day she‘ll overcome the psychological challenges that this whole experience gave to her.

Alina for example, has never had this issue about winning only. She was always the underdog, so it‘s much easier for her to accept a second place. I think it‘s good and more healthy to lose once in a while.

 

[EdRoz]

Fluture

Alina — underdog ?

She is a winner of FGP 2018 , Russian National 2018, Europe champion 2018

 

[Artemisa]

About today:
_ Alina Zagitova deserved the first place but I think she doesn't deserve that difference in PCS to Kostornaia, Shcherbakova or Gubanova
_ Kostornaia even when a fall she just skates perfect ....
_Alexandra Trusova ... without the 4 ... her programs are more junior than the other skaters
_ Stanislava Konstantinova - I don't get her score or PCS .... But is clear that RusFed wants her
_ Anna Shcherbakova ... I don't agree with their PCs
_ Alena Leonova -- I love the way she's skate
_ Anastasiia Gubanova -- I don't get the score in the PCs

I was sad for Evgenia Medvedeva .. but it almost impossible to put a program in 2 weeks ... She doesn't fail in practice ... so probably is just nerves ... she will get there in time ... isn't easy change a life of jumps

 

[Fluture]

Fluture

Alina — underdog ?

She is a winner of FGP 2018 , Russian National 2018, Europe champion 2018

Excuse me for asking but do you know what the term underdog means? If the reaction after the Olympics told you anything then, yes, Alina was still considered the underdog despite winning those competitions you mentioned. Most people didn’t expect her to actually get that Olympic Gold.

In her junior years (until the last were she had a breakout season) she was never really known to anyone. She had some bad luck with injuries, too (broken arm, broken leg etc) and just wasn‘t standing out between the others. She came a really long way and her story is amazing in itself because she got from 0 to 100 in a very short amount of time and simply by working very, very hard.

Yet, despite all this, she was somehow never the one considered most likely to win, maybe except for Worlds 2018 after the Olympics and ironically that‘s the only competition she didn‘t win that season.

So, what I‘m trying to say is: Alina was the underdog. Now she isn‘t anymore and she wins a lot of things but it doesn‘t matter. She knows how to lose because not long ago, she did it all the time. And that‘s good. Because it makes her stay reasonable even though she‘s obviously still quite emotional and sad about mistakes. She’s an athlete after all. But she grew a lot mentally and learned to cope with the pressure of suddenly being the one to beat.

 

[Scott512]

Alina is 16. I‘m her fan and she‘s great but she‘s so so far from being perfect to get straight 10‘s for performance. There is SO much she can still learn. I never agreed with the high scores Zhenya got either btw. In performance I maybe could agree on 10‘s for a few skates where she really brought the house down but her SS were never that great and while improved now still need a lot of work to get a perfect mark of 10. Zhenya should have won and I never (or very seldomly at least) doubted a win by her but the margin was usually too big. And yes, she‘s my favourite skater and I‘m still saying that.

I‘m sorry if I‘m ranting right now but it just doesn‘t make sense to give such high PCS to skaters who haven‘t maxed out their potential yet. Alina is great but 10 on everything in performance would mean there is NO way she could improve, no way she could emote better. Yes, she‘s good but that good? Imo? No, not at all. I don‘t know why it‘s a bad thing to consider a skater could improve some things or still has some flaws. Alina has some very, very obvious flaws. Like everybody does and it‘s absolutely normal and would be strange if it was otherwise. What makes her great isn‘t that she has no flaws but rather that she recognizes them, works on them and tries to get better. PCS were her weakness last season despite the scores suggesting otherwise. (Doesn’t go for Alina only either. Jumps like lutz, axel and the toe in the combo were Zhenya’s weakness last season which the scores didn’t reflect, either, so don’t call me out on being biased ) She improved but still has a long way to go. And that‘s great because we‘ll see more progress from her.

And btw, I don‘t even hope for Zhenya to make the Worlds team. It would do her no good. If she has a great skate, maybe euros team because there’s not much competition there and she wouldn’t be in danger of losing spots for her country but in no way should she go to worlds. It wouldn‘t be good for her either, she needs time and some competitions where she can get the feel for her programs in an environment that is competitive but not insanely so like Nationals or Worlds. Send her to Universiade and some minor events. Let her rest and heal (she still has backpain, her injury seems to be a lot more serious than we knew. There were videos of her saying to Brian in training at Nationals “back hurts“ and she had pain relief patches under her dress today) and get consistent with ONE layout and her programs. Constantly changing layout won‘t do her any good and probably will be the biggest problem tomorrow, too. Reaction wise she looked like Canada in the SP, not France where she was totally down and sad. That would reassure me for the FS but well... she had her usual layout there in Canada. Now she has two new combos and that‘s what I fear will get to her. That‘s why I say: give her the months to train until Universiade (which I think are three) and then send her (and Masha!!) there while Alina, Liza and Sofia go to Worlds.

And while I prefer Stasya’s skating and programs to Sofia’s... Let the latter go to Worlds. She deserves it so much and it would be a crime to rob her of that chance.

If Stasya clearly beats Sofia she should go ahead of her to Euros. But if Liza does not go and I don't imagine she will at this point then I think both Stanislava and Sofia will go to euros along with Alina. Then it will turn determine who does better at Europeans between those two who goes to Worlds along with Liza if she's healthy and Alina.

Big skates tomorrow for both girls and everyone else for that matter.

 

[EdRoz]

Fluture

Excuse me for asking , but do you know what the term underdog means?

I can continue
Winner of junior Cup of Russia , second on junior Russian National,
Winner of junior FGP, junior World champion

but you’re still calling owner of all this titles some kind of “underdog” ...
If someone was such a narcissist and did not see a strong rival next to him, it is not the fault of Alina

 

[Fluture]

If Stasya clearly beats Sofia she should go ahead of her to Euros. But if Liza does not go and I don't imagine she will at this point then I think both Stanislava and Sofia will go to euros along with Alina. Then it will turn determine who does better at Europeans between those two who goes to Worlds along with Liza if she's healthy and Alina.

Big skates tomorrow for both girls and everyone else for that matter.

I like Stasya and her skating a lot, I think she has nice presence and she seems like a sweet girl as well. But realistically, Sofia was more consistent this season and I think she earned it. If she has a meltdown and Stasya clearly beats her, then yes, give Stasya the spot. But... we know what kind of scores Stasya gets at Nationals, even with not so perfect skates. And for her to be pushed about a clean Sofia by PCS margin or GOE advantage.. I wouldn‘t want that. I want to see fair scores for what both of them put out and whoever is best that day should go.

Fluture

Excuse me for asking , but do you know what the term underdog means?

I can continue
Winner of junior Cup of Russia , second on junior Russian National,
Winner of junior FGP, junior World champion

but you’re still calling owner of all this titles some kind of “underdog” ...
If someone was such a narcissist and did not see a strong rival next to him, it is not the fault of Alina

I won‘t even continue to talk about this because clearly, you didn‘t understand my point and I really don‘t feel like discussing right now. Yeah, obviously it’s not Alina‘s fault she was considered the underdog by most people before Olympics, she did all she could do. But she was and that‘s a fact and I don‘t know what the problem is. She won anyway. I don‘t get why you bother so much about one small statement like this in the whole long post I made. I was very complimentary about her if you didn‘t notice btw so I don‘t know anymore at this point what you‘re even trying to defend.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Alina was at best a soft co-favorite heading into the Olympics. Everyone who wasn't a strong follower of skating believed, despite the injury problem, the two time world champ who crushed everyone for two seasons, would in the end prevail. Her reputation would carry her over the line and all she had to do was not make any major mistakes. I would not be shocked if Evgenia, and privately Eteri, believed it too.

It was like 1998 redux. Tara may have been world champion but everyone believed a Michelle Kwan victory was in the bag as long as she stood on her feet. Tara's world title made her a strong threat but it was still seen as Michelle's to lose. Tara has said over and over she believed it too and that she felt like the underdog despite her status. It's what motivated her to perform as she did. Her win was actually treated by a huge majority of the general public as an upset.

 

[caballe]

All the complaints about Alina's PCS difference to the juniors - especially Alena - is, quite frankly, indicative of how little people know about the way component marks are given. No matter what, the juniors have a limited range of PCS they receive because, for some reason, judges have traditionally decided that there should be some distinction between the juniors and seniors. Usually, juniors receive 30< PCS for a good program, equivalent to average seniors. Top juniors normally get anything between 30-33 and it is very rare to see a junior lady receiving anything beyond 33 for a short program. Alina's not only a top senior, but an Olympic champion, and PCS marks always reflect the reputation of the athletes. Considering that she got mid to high 37's in previous competitions this season, I would say 38 is justified, especially taking into account that it is a national competition.

The thing is, most people know this, and yet I think choose to be outraged by the PCS gap between Alina and the junior skaters, when Alina herself was lowballed on PCS when she was a junior so she couldn't challenge someone like Zhenya. If anything, people who complain about this are not giving credit to Kostornaia who is breaking the conventional limitation imposed on PCS, getting 34+ for her short program. Once the juniors move to the sernior circuit, they will doubtless be receiving 35+ PCS in no time - why wouldn't they? It makes me so wary when I see a comment like "why is Alina's PCS so higher than the juniors" when they full well know why, and that Alina is not being favored, it's simply the way it's done.

 

[lesnar001]

Alina was at best a soft co-favorite heading into the Olympics. Everyone who wasn't a strong follower of skating believed, despite the injury problem, the two time world champ who crushed everyone for two seasons, would in the end prevail. Her reputation would carry her over the line and all she had to do was not make any major mistakes. I would not be shocked if Evgenia, and privately Eteri, believed it too.

It was like 1998 redux. Tara may have been world champion but everyone believed a Michelle Kwan victory was in the bag as long as she stood on her feet. Tara's world title made her a strong threat but it was still seen as Michelle's to lose. Tara has said over and over she believed it too and that she felt like the underdog despite her status. It's what motivated her to perform as she did. Her win was actually treated by a huge majority of the general public as an upset.

Similar in some ways, yet very different in others....

In 1997 Tara beat Michelle at Nationals and Worlds (maybe GPF also, but I don't remember)
But in 1998 leading up to the Olympics Michelle was back in top form, and soundly defeated Tara at Nationals.
Tara was only 4th after the SP.
And Tara lost the GPF to Tanja S. (I can't spell her last name)
I believe Michelle skipped GPF because of a stress fracture in her foot.
So going into the Olympics, Tara had shown vulnerability and Michelle indeed did look a clear favorite.

I can agree that Alina was a little bit of an underdog going into the Olympics, but more from lack of big competition experience.
But she beat Evgenia at Europeans and she had the highest score of the season.
I know that NBC played up tht "co-favorite" angle quite a bit. (Not that really means anything other than a ratings grab)

 

[oatmella]

Alina won everything leading up to the Olympics. Zhenya did lose to Alina at Europeans, so she wasn’t completely dominant leading up the Olympics.