Women and the Quad

[flanker]

Although I'm not sure it's wise for Alina to work at a quad now (she has room for improvement in other areas of her skating

Well, she would not focus just on one thing, fact that she is training quad flip (and manybe other quads as for some of the older Daniil's words) does not mean she doesn't work on other things. If she is 2x1.5 hour on the ice daily, let's say that 30 minutes of it she is training quads. But one should remember. Alina is great, but has some disadvantage against skaters with quads or 3A - she has to be perfect to match them, all elements in +2 and higher as there is no reserve. And she is capable of it as she has done perfect programs many times even during this season, but it is much harder psychologically for her to know that all her elements have to be perfect. With some quad(s), she could be in fact more relaxed, it could give her some backup points.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, that would be great. However, this place is already reserved, I think. The question is who from 2A will be the first.

Well, if Alina is getting close to it I don't see why Eteri would push 2A doing 4F in competitions. So far 2A reduced their FPs to 2 quads for Trusova and 1 quad to Scherbakova. If Trusova goes to 4 quad FP next season: 4T+3T, 4Lz, 4S, 4T and Scherbakova lands consistently 4Lz+3T and 4Lz - this will be one of a feat with Trusova's scores well above 250. If they add 3A it will be cosmos. 4F will be just too much. Hence, once again, if Alina has a chance, then she might get it. Her rippon 3F is marvelous!

 

[solani]

Well, she would not focus just on one thing, fact that she is training quad flip (and manybe other quads as for oone of the older Daniil's words) does not mean she doesn't work on tother things. But one should remember. Alina is great, but has some disadvantage against skaters with quads or 3A - she has to be perfect to match them, all elements in +2 and higher as there is no reserve. And she is capable of it as she has done perfect programs many times even during this season, but it is much harder psychologically for her to know that all her elements have to be perfect. With some quad(s), she could be in fact more relaxed, it could give her some backup points.

I think it's wrong to assume that a skater, who has never tried a quad in competiton, can go out, do it (successfully or not) and do the rest of the program normally, just as if nothing new has happened. Adrenaline levels and heartbeat will skyrocket. So this surely isn't in preparation for Worlds this season, rather next season. Well ... if it helps her to get her other jumps around - great. Otherwise - waste of time imho. She won the Olympics because she was perfect, she's quite good at that. Play your own strengths, don't focus on what the competition is doing.

 

[flanker]

I think it's wrong to assume that a skater, who has never tried a quad in competiton, can go out, do it (successfully or not) and do the rest of the program normally, just as if nothing new has happened. Adrenaline levels and heartbeat will skyrocket. So this surely isn't in preparation for Worlds this season, rather next season. Well ... if it helps her to get her other jumps around - great. Otherwise - waste of time imho. She won the Olympics because she was perfect, she's quite good at that. Play your own strengths, don't focus on what the competition is doing.

I am not indicating that she would add 4F into her program now, do I? That would happen only if her training of it would go exceptionally well. But there are other seasons waiting and for providing her long and successful career she should not train just for the next competition but for the times that will come also. New elements can't be learned just during off-season, that is too short time, also filled with learning of brand new programs, so it is completely usual and unexceptional to learn such things during the season. You already know your choreos, you just assure yourself in it, so there is in fact more time for training new elements than during off-season.

Even perfect skater should not stagnate, why would she?

 

[yume]

She won the Olympics because she was perfect, she's quite good at that. Play your own strengths, don't focus on what the competition is doing.

Just that next season she will probably have to hope that some skaters make mistakes to win. And that's not a pleasant feeling or situation. Easier to win by being just clean when everyone does a 7 triples program.

 

[solani]

I am not indicating that she would add 4F into her program now, do I? That would happen only if her training of it would go exceptionally well. But there are other seasons waiting and for providing her long and successful career she should not train just for the next competition but for the times that will come also. New elements can't be learned just during off-season, that is too short time, also filled with learning of brand new programs, so it is completely usual and unexceptional to learn such things during the season. You already know your choreos, you just assure yourself in it, so there is in fact more time for training new elements than during off-season.

Even perfect skater should not stagnate, why would she?

Right now keeping the jumps/combos is already tough for her and she's managing quite well at that. Once she's "stable" enough, has dealt with the latest growth spurt etc. would be a better time imho to start working on new jumps. And there's a lot more to skating than jumping, not working on jumps is not stagnating.

 

[solani]

Just that next season she will probably have to hope that some skaters make mistakes to win. And that's not a pleasant feeling or situation. Easier to win by being just clean when everyone does a 7 triples program.

I'm not so sure about that. Ice is slippery and puberty can hit any female athlete very very hard.
But the question is - what's Alina's goal? Another Olympic cycle? Then a think my approach would be best. If she "only" wants to win one or two World titles, then I guess she can go for any number of quads and hope to not injure herself in the process.

 

[Alex65]

Well, if Alina is getting close to it I don't see why Eteri would push 2A doing 4F in competitions. So far 2A reduced their FPs to 2 quads for Trusova and 1 quad to Scherbakova. If Trusova goes to 4 quad FP next season: 4T+3T, 4Lz, 4S, 4T and Scherbakova lands consistently 4Lz+3T and 4Lz - this will be one of a feat with Trusova's scores well above 250. If they add 3A it will be cosmos. 4F will be just too much. Hence, once again, if Alina has a chance, then she might get it. Her rippon 3F is marvelous!

Do you think that Sasha will miss the opportunity to ratify 4F? I hope to see an attempt in the final of the Cup of Russia and clean for JWC.

 

[yume]

I'm not so sure about that. Ice is slippery and puberty can hit any female athlete very very hard.
But the question is - what's Alina's goal? Another Olympic cycle? Then a think my approach would be best. If she "only" wants to win one or two World titles, then I guess she can go for any number of quads and hope to not injure herself in the process.

That's why i wrote "probably".

 

[[email protected]]

Do you think that Sasha will miss the opportunity to ratify 4F? I hope to see an attempt in the final of the Cup of Russia and clean in JWC.

I think that Sasha is a disciplined girl who puts into reality her team's plans rather than a person on a mission like Dmitriev junior.

 

[moriel]

I think that Sasha is a disciplined girl who puts into reality her team's plans rather than a person on a mission like Dmitriev junior.

My guess is that if the jump is somewhat stable (unlike Dmtriev's 4A<<), they will try to get it ratified, imho, because even if she doesn't keep jumping it in competition, another ratified quad is a thing to her curriculum.
But i would say only if it is stable.

Also, there is this thing that Sasha lost to Alena at JGPF and to Anna at rusnats, so maybe she is hungry and they will rather focus on winning (which means a clean skate with 2 quads) which means she will go for the 2 that work the best for her.

 

[Alex65]

I think that Sasha is a disciplined girl who puts into reality her team's plans rather than a person on a mission like Dmitriev junior.

It is indisputable. But she is also a member of this team like everyone else. And if she strive for this and has the opportunity to realize her aspiration. I do not see examples of such compromises in the Crystal.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Although I'm not sure it's wise for Alina to work at a quad now (she has room for improvement in other areas of her skating), I don't see how some tape is an indication or an evidence for a new injury. Some athletes are taped all the time, they simply like to wear it. And it can help manage Schlatter's disease.
Even I (!) wear some tape from time to time when I go for a run. My physio showed me how to use it, I have some muscle imbalances and the tape seems to help to avoid pain. I'm not sure, I think it does, but I don't like the feeling wearing it.

I often wear tape to help with hypermobility. Perhaps that could be a reason why some skaters (not necessarily Alina - as I couldn't possibly tell if she has hypermobility) use tape. And it wouldn't be something that goes away either, like an injury :think:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As mentioned before, Eteri’s track record of leading a senior lady through a whole quad is 0. Her students have one or two seasons of glory, struggles, then switches coaches and these coaches try to help them rehabilitate. Some of them have since retired with lasting problems. For someone that is relatively new to the coaching scene as some keep mentioning, Eteri has caused proportionally many more students problems than say Mishin, Huth, or Orser who have been on the scene longer and have led some students through multiple quads of success.

Hah, is this what we mean by "Quad Watch"? Personally I don't find issues with Eteri not leading a senior lady through a whole quad. She's certainly trained skaters for more than 4 years in a row, and is still a relatively "new" coach on the scene. Just as you said, we can't compare her to coaches with extensive careers like Mishin. It's like faulting a skater who's been around for a season or two for not having the same accolades/proficiency as a skater who's been around for a decade.

And frankly, a lot of skaters would rather have 2 seasons of glory, than a coach simply sticking with them but not doing what it takes to meet their goals or get the desired results.

 

[gsk8]

Once gain, please stay on topic.

 

[Arbitrary]

I'd consider highly dangerous to attempt any quad not being fully prepared.
Every time Dmitriev locks horns with 4A he risks his future. Better his 4A becomes (he recently stated he succeeded to land 4A from time to time in practice) harder he crashes (higher altitude and velocity).
Heavily URed quad may not be so heavy upon crash versus the fully rotated one.
Pure physics...

And Trusova only landed something named 4F (one video of a very low quality) and no further progress from her or Shcherbakova reported. Anna too wanted to go further to the Dark Side of Quads.
I see no place for 4F for the next few months.

 

[moriel]

I'd consider highly dangerous to attempt any quad not being fully prepared.
Every time Dmitriev locks horns with 4A he risks his future. Better his 4A becomes (he recently stated he succeeded to land 4A from time to time in practice) harder he crashes (higher altitude and velocity).
Heavily URed quad may not be so heavy upon crash versus the fully rotated one.
Pure physics...

And Trusova only landed something named 4F (one video of a very low quality) and no further progress from her or Shcherbakova reported. Anna too wanted to go further to the Dark Side of Quads.
I see no place for 4F for the next few months.

the practice videos are not top quality most of the time. What Trusova landed looks like a potentially ok 4F.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

A different topic:

I am excited to see if Alysa Liu will attempt and land her Quad Lutz in competition this season. She tried it some time ago and landed it in her warm up, but fell during the competition. She probably won't attempt it at Nationals, but maybe in a different comp.

Also I am really excited for next season. Rika wants to start to get her quads consistent this season so she can pull them out next season. I am kinda looking forward to the battle of the quads between Sasha, Anna and Rika. Also Kaori Sakamoto apparently wants to train a 4T.

 

[Mathman]

Heavily URed quad may not be so heavy upon crash versus the fully rotated one.
Pure physics...

On the other hand, I would imagine that landing all cockeyed and sideways can't be good for your body, either.

Maybe the small girls who get it done by quick rotation rather than great height and distance have the right idea.

 

[yume]

It's great to think that next season, maybe there won't be only one girl who will consistently land quads in international competitions, but many girls. Honestly, i want 2020 worlds to be like 2017 worlds for men. Incredible technical level and performances. There is potential to have 3 to 5 girls at least with quads/3A (Trusova, Scherbakova, Kihira, Kostornaya, healthy Wakaba). We saw these girls lands these jumps at practice at least and say that they work on them. It would be epic.